To ask if you have a problem with the burkini?

[Mvslimah]

Honest answers please

would you give a woman (maybe Muslim maybe Jewish) a wide berth if you saw them wearing a burkini or modest (Ie fully covered) swimsuit at a pool?

if you see a woman wearing one do you give it a second thought or is it just a meh, who cares?

tia

They are developing nations.

each of those counties has its problems for sure, some gigantic but so does the west and the UK and the US

Turkey is a secular democracy btw

perhaps rather than spewing hate, look up colonialism, the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the foundation of Saudi Arabia. All of this have been central in the regressive steps the Muslim world has taken over the last 100 years.

islamaphobia is rooted in racism and white supremacy because although there are white Muslims (such as myself) it is commonly viewed as this barbaric backward religion of the ‘other’ by the western world.

maybe if you always get called a racist, it might be time to sit back and reflect as to why?

Can't be bothered because I always get called racist

I wonder why? 🤔

Mvslimih
You asked why is there not an influx of immigrants to Islamic countries. I don't know about immigration as such but a great many people from here and elsewhere go to different places to work, often for years. What is more they seem to like it as well as the money they make. I've known quite a few who have worked in Bahrain, Saudi, Libya and Qatar.

I’ve not asked that, I’ve been asked that and said pretty much exactly as you did :)

Muslim women couldn’t wear a traditional bathing suit in women only areas anyway… maybe a swimsuit with board shorts but that’s about it

Why not? I thought it was choice to wear what you want? But here you say women couldn't wear that? Says who?

I wouldn't judge anyone in a burkini for doing wearing it, but I would feel sorry for them, sorry, its just what I'd think. especially on a hot day. And I would think they were unable to wear a regular swimsuit because of religion dictating to them that it would be immoral. And so i'd feel for them. And I'd secretly seethe at their husbands enjoying the sun on their skin while their wife is covered up like a dirty little secret or something. Their bodies never to see the light of day.

If it was purely choice, then wear whatever you want. But the religion is dictating this, so it isn't a free choice at all.

You also said: modesty islamically is only a small part what you wear, it’s how you speak, how you act, how you think, how you behave, how you look (the physical act of looking at someone) and then how you dress.

I'm strugling to see the choices here, seems like alot of things are dictated as to how you must do things - even how to think.

If my dd asked why a woman was dressed in a burkini on scorching hot day on the beach, I honestly don't think she'd buy the answer 'because she wants to'. So I'd probably say she has to because of her religion. I don't know - what would be the best response OP, would be genuinely good to know what the best response to a question like that would be. I am very much each to their own, and have no problem with any religion, but I do struggle to understand one where it does look very, very unequal for women and men.

Why not? I thought it was choice to wear what you want? But here you say women couldn't wear that? Says who?

We follow the word of our God. Many may see it as us being prohibited, but a lot of which is restricted is to protect us e.g. not drinking alcohol. There is a lot we don’t understand the reasons for as we’re just mere human beings, but we have faith that one day all will become clear, and that we will be rewarded for following the word of our Lord, as we believe Allah (swt) is both the All Knowing, and the Most Wise.

I don't know - what would be the best response OP, would be genuinely good to know what the best response to a question like that would be.

“This woman actively follows a religion where wearing full coverage clothing is recommended and therefore wears a full length swimsuit so she’s able to swim”.

It’s that easy. My child asked me why Sikh men wear large turbans on their head as they must be quite heavy, and I simply explained because he follows a religion where it is recommended he do so.

OP have you sat in a Bikink in the sun and then sat in your Burkhini? You’re saying there is no difference but having sat in my swimming cossie in the sun then with just my bikini bottoms on the balcony in the sun I can tell you now I would not want to be covered head to toe, there is a huge difference.

It’s about comfort too, isn’t it just people need to think otherwise of the ‘male gaze’ so to speak? I mean I’ve been on holiday with friends and family and seriously I’ve never seen anyone of the males look anywhere other than my face when they talk to me. You’re all out in your swimsuits on the beach and no one is looking at anyone in any particular way. That’s why I think you do draw attention with a burkhini.

Perhaps I wasn’t explicitly clear, I should’ve said a woman who chooses to adhere to the Islamic dress code on modesty and her private parts, wouldn’t wear a bikini in front of women… bikini top and shorts yes but she’d need to have her navel to knee covered. She could be topless and just wear the shorts But no one would would be there to stop her as such

but you are superimposing your thoughts, onto that woman, it’s this poor Muslim woman paradigm. I’ve worn a ‘normal’ bathing suit when rented private villas and there is literally no difference except I don’t have to worry about suncream in the burkini. Again with the immoral, no one believes that, that’s the juxtaposition that some posters on this thread have created re the term modest, as they seem to think the modest fashion industry means that their clothes as this immodest or immoral or slutty

Islam is a way of life not just a religion but that’s like Christianity too. We’re encouraged to be kind and appropriate in our speech, to not think bad of others, to behave in a kind, considerate and appropriate way to our fellow humans but I don’t see anything problematic there.

tbh if you’re child asked personally I’d welcome a politely asked question from a child, some might not though so I’d go with because that’s how she feels comfortable, which is exactly what I’d say to my daughter if she asked why someone was wearing a strong bikini

^string bikini not strong haha

I'm strugling to see the choices here, seems like alot of things are dictated as to how you must do things - even how to think.

That's religion no? And on a broader level participation in society in general

Have you worn a burkini? Because I’ve worn both, and I’ve worn a burkini in 45 degree heat and I can tell you it ain’t the burkini making me hot, it’s the sun.

id west a sun hat going to the shops to keep the sun off my face on a sunny day, as many do?

you’re seriously saying you’ve never seen a man on the beach or pool check out a woman in a revealing swimsuit? I have ,

Not sure which way you want the voting to go?

I would notice it, as it’s unusual to see in the UK (but then I tend to notice other women anyway), and I’d think encouraging thoughts along the lines of @Mvslimah ”go get it my sister”. I would love to see more women enjoying sport in clothing they are comfortable in for the moment.

I agree @Curtain1980 that from a purely physical point of view wearing less swimwear can be more comfortable. Although given how rarely the opportunity to swim topless actually arises due to the higher standards of "modesty" required of women than men by even western countries, I don't actually know whether a woman with big boobs, like me, could comfortably swim for exercise without a top on. That said, physical comfort isn't the only kind of comfort, and I can think of loads of situations where I feel more psychologically comfortable covered up than baring my flesh. Like, if there were no other people on the beach I'd be most comfortable stark naked, but with my post baby body and other people around, I prefer to wear a not-too-skimpy swimsuit and maybe some other kind of cover-up as well. I totally agree with you though, that being covered from head to toe when on the beach for religious reasons deprives you of the opportunity to enjoy the feel of the sun and the water on your bare skin. I think I would feel far less uncomfortable with it if Muslim men did it too. But they don't.

To @Mvslimah: I have a question. You say that wearing a burkini is your choice and that you want to do it. What if you woke up tomorrow and didn't want to do it anymore? What if you woke up tomorrow and suddenly felt a strong desire to go to the swimming pool and swim in public wearing a bikini or one piece swimming costume? Would you feel free to do that?

I do not care a jot about who wears what. I expect the same courtesy to be extended to me though.

I don’t understand the question? Because in your scenario I’ve decided I want to show my body so no longer care to adhere to Islamic clothing guidance? So obviously I’d just do it. It’s the feeling free bit i don’t get? Do you mean is there someone encouraging me to wear it or would I face criticism if I didn’t? But from who? My husband? He wouldn’t really care, secretly I do wish he had more gheerah but grass is always greener I suppose

you’re seriously saying you’ve never seen a man on the beach or pool check out a woman in a revealing swimsuit? I have

And whose fault is that? The woman's, or the man's? Or both?
Should I not wear a swimsuit just in case some bloke checks me out?

I've also seen men check women out when they are wearing a 'normal' swimsuit. And normal clothes too.
I've also seen men talk to women absolutely normally without checking them out, even those in 'revealing swimsuits'.

I think it largely depends on the man. From the amount of modesty it seems is required in your religion, can the men not be trusted to treat women as equals and not view them as sex objects? To the point they must be covered head to toe at all times?

Some men are oogling idiots. Some are not.

If people want to follow a dress guidance of their religion because they want to, thats absolutely fine. But is this guidance? It seems like its more of a rule?
And your comment about seeing men checking out women in 'revealing swimsuit' is quite telling what you think about women wearing bikinis, so you've lost me now. We're all just tempting the men obviously.

No one at that pool should of made you feel bad, whatever your reason for wearing a burkhini was. That is just rubbish and they are not nice people, so ignore them. And equally no one should be shamed for wearing a bikini on a public beach. The difference though I think is that people know the woman wearing the bikini is doing so because its her choice to. Alot of people will think someone wearing a burkhini in blistering hot sunshine, is doing so because she has been told to.

Why would it bother me? I don't like having too much skin on show myself

From people whose opinion matters to you, I guess.

So if you decided tomorrow that you wanted to wear a bikini at the local swimming pool or on the beach, do you feel you could do that free from judgement from your husband, family and friends? Or might there be negative consequences in the form of people you care about strongly disagreeing with what you were doing?

But I think that knowledge that a woman is choosing to wear a skimpy bikini is derived from the helpless Muslim woman narrative, because you actually don’t know if her boyfriend or hubby or whatever want her to dress a certain way, or tan or wax or get implants or whatever.

pervs will be pervs at the end of the day and they’ll be pervs at a wrist or a butt, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t notice a lady with a very skimpy thong bikini again because it’s not used to what you’re seeing really. There’s no judgment in that, like someone noticing me because it’s out of the ‘norm’.

dressing modestly isn’t about stopping men from being pervs, it’s about being recognised as a Muslim woman and persevering your beauty for your spouse, and ‘forcing’ people to value what you say and how you act rather than how you look.

how to dress modestly has been interpreted in different ways by different scholars and schools of thought but it is an Islamic principle but seeing as not all Muslims wear the hijab or dress modestly or whatever it’s not really enforced (oppressive theocracies aside, and even then they cannot control what happens in peoples homes on private land)

dressing modestly isn’t about stopping men from being pervs, it’s about being recognised as a Muslim woman and persevering your beauty for your spouse, and ‘forcing’ people to value what you say and how you act rather than how you look

Doesn't this thread prove that that doesn't work though? You get judged just as much for wearing a burkini than you would for wearing a bikini.

Covering up from head to toe, sadly, does not force anyone to value what you say and how you act rather than how you look.

Husband wouldn’t give two figs, my mum isn’t Muslim so she wouldn’t care but she wouldn’t like anything too too revealing I imagine, friends, I might get oh ‘how come you’re wearing xyz’ similarly I imagine if you wore a burkini one day but that would be the end of it. I stopped wearing abayas for a really long time and went to jeans and tunic style tops with leggings, no one said anything and when I wore one again it was ‘oh that looks nice on you’ so I’d imagine something similar.

in laws… maybe, mother in law wouldn’t go swimming but she’s that generation of woman who can’t, but she probably have something to say about swimming in general, thinking about it, a bikini which is basically underwear she’d not be happy about (hubby would tell her to mind her own) but say 3/4 leggins and t shirt style swim top she wouldn’t and no head covering. But I wouldn’t ever go swimming or to the beach with her anyway so a bit of a moot point

well theres been studies that people who are more ‘beautiful’ tend to have an easier time in certain things. But it takes the focus off looks or that’s the principle

Fair enough. That's interesting, thanks for answering.

Covering up from head to toe, sadly, does not force anyone to value what you say and how you act rather than how you look.

Neither does wearing a bikini or any type of swimwear. People could simply mind their business about what people choose to wear on the beach and keep their comments in their head.

Burkinis are not just worn by Muslim women and other women on this thread have stated that they have either worn one or would like to because it covers their skin, some of the reasons having nothing to do with modesty or religion.

I prefer my skin covered in the summer because I burn. Even in Turkey I've covered up on the beach. I don't go in the water anyway so rarely need swimwear. If I was Muslim would people think I was forced into this? I'm not so I doubt anybody thinks about it or feels sorry for me. I don't think I would feel cooler in a bikini - I like the feel of fabric flowing around me and wear loose trousers or a midi/maxi dress in hot countries.

I really think those who feel strongly that woman shouldn't wear certain garments are as bad as people who think they should.