Told to leave a group.

[MobilityCat]

I got into trouble at a meeting of people with a common interest. In the beginning, I explained that I had ADHD and asked that if I said anything inappropriate, please tell me, and I'll apologise and stop.
Guess what happened?. I did say something, and instead of telling me to stop, someone challenged my statement, and it went downhill after that.
A lady sitting next to me said that she also had ADHD, but that I should have recognised a line that I should not have crossed.
I told her that I didn't have that ability, I only knew if I got it wrong by the reaction it produced, good or bad.
She told me that wasn't true. She was also prone to inappropriate speech and behaviour but knew what boundaries she shouldn't cross.
Anyway, I was banned from the group, which was hurtful but not unusual. ADHD has cost me friends, jobs, and strained family relationships all my life.

This is all problematic. There’s no rule that says you have to tick “mixed” and some forms have “prefer not to say”.

The idea that you can’t be black African if you’re ”not fully black”. What does that even mean? You’re entitled to describe as African or Asian or whatever even if you’re half. And how far do you go back? Are you “fully black” if you have one white gp or ggp? I gave the example of a friend who looks “fully black” yet has a white father. And her (full) sister looks white.

And what of the “mixed” category? Until recently called things like “half-caste” “mulatto” “mischling” meaning mongrel, all terms of contempt. The phenomenon OP describes - not white enough for one community, not black enough for the other is not uncommon.

Demanding to know just how “fully” Jewish someone is can be fascistic on the one hand or conservative Jewish on the other. During the war the Gestapo in Belgium employed what they called a “Jew sniffer” to find Jewish and part Jewish people passing themselves off as Aryan. Equally - historically Jewishness can only be passed on by the mother, so if you’re father was Jewish but not your mother you’re not Jewish at all. And that’s before you start on whether Jews are white - the majority identify as white, but some don’t.

A quagmire in other words.

It doesn't matter what you look like. You can look white and yet have a non-white ethnicity. The box isn't asking what you look like - it's asking what your ethnicity is. Deciding someone's ethnicity based on their appearance is racist. Genes play out in interesting ways, especially where there has been mixing in the more recent gene pool - you could be majority one ethnicity but due to which genes are more dominant, look more like one ethnicity of which you don't have much background.

Plus, there have been cases documented where one person's family are understood to belong to the same ethnicity going quite far back, but they don't look like any of their relatives. Having an unusual appearance for one ethnicity doesn't mean you don't belong to that ethnicity.

When you're mixed race, there is often a disconnect between your actual ethnicity and how people perceive you, because there are lots of racists out there. Take Meghan Markle. I don't especially like the woman, but I do sympathise with her on account of the racism that she has encountered because people have taken one look at her, and decided her ethnicity for her. That's not how genetics work...

I do also think if people treat you one way based on your appearance, it may shape what you identify as. But that, again, doesn't change your ethnicity. Your identity is not the same thing. Your identity is - but not always - often more linked to which culture resonates more strongly with you, and/or where you grew up.

Mixed race is a perfectly neutral term - I use it to describe myself because I am mixed race. I don't know why on earth you thought you had to introduce some extra offensive words to the thread.

If one parent is Black African and one parent is White, you are clearly not Black African. You are mixed race. When you are 50/50 one thing, you cannot be majority one thing. It's simple maths.

How far back do you go? Well, I'd go as far back as you know. For some people, that might just be as far back as their parents or grandparents. I don't think you need to research your entire family tree as TBH, if you were to go 100s of years back, pretty much everyone would have to say they're mixed race. It's a matter of sensible rounding.

If both your parents would sensibly tick the same box, you fully belong to that box. If one of your parents would tick another box, you cannot claim to be fully one thing, so you go to mixed race. Or, and I have made this point previously, you could tick 'prefer not to say' or 'other.' What you don't do is pick a box that you like the sound of.

I'm not sure why you brought Jewish people into this argument either. By modern definitions, being Jewish is not an ethnicity anymore - it's definitely an identity, but not necessarily a racial identity. I mean, you can convert to become Jewish, and you cannot convert from one ethnicity to another. Thus, Jewish people have the whole range of boxes to choose from.

I've stated that I was born in Africa. Therefore, I'm African.

That's not necessarily true. My daughter was born in the UAE. She cannot say she is Emirati! My husband was born in Malawi. He cannot say he is African!

Could this be where the problem lies? You said your heritage was "Kenyan, Zimbabwean, and Dutch", where were your parents born? What passport do you hold? This might help people to help you see where any offence taken may have originated.

Let's say your daughter was born in Wales. She's British !
Or your husband is born in Scotland, he's British. The passport I hold is British.

Actually not necessarily if the poster is not british (or the father isn't) or one of them are not settled. Legally.
And even identity wise wouldn't be it if for example they only lived here short time.
But if they were here long term and the DD would grow up here as part of british society and traditions then he would be considered British.
It gets very interesting

Thank you for your support and guidance. It feels like I'm running a gauntlet here. Where should I have posted?

@imnotsadyouresad

Nowhere did I say ethnicity is based on looks.

I don’t agree that “mixed race” is an entirely neutral term - it can be, on forms it’s meant to be. I “introduced” those words because they’re still sometimes used. I’ve been called “half-caste” myself. Who would have thought to introduce history in a discussion about race eh?

The rest of the your post is so uninformed and problematic I’m not going to engage with it. The lack of nuance is astonishing, frankly. And the naivety slash ignorance of laying the law down on the issue of Jewishness and ethnicity is breathtaking.

Why will you not answer the point that you have been offensive in saying that people can choose their sexuality

@MobilityCat your understanding of the requirements for British citizenship is incorrect

I think just leaving aside the whole question of definitions of race or ethnicity (which can be not clear-cut in any case), the point is that it's not a great topic to bring up in conversation with people you don't know. As this thread illustrates, there are different views, and it's a topic which can be sensitive and emotive for many.

I definitely wouldn't recommend announcing to a group of strangers that sexual orientation is a choice.

But I do feel that you know this, and you're deliberately being provocative. If that's the case, it's not very nice.

I don't have hateful beliefs. I accept that my worldview may be different, but I'm inclusive. Maybe I didn't word it right because people have read all kinds of things into what I've said. I'm sorry that you're being judgemental because you don't know me.

I was asked what passport I hold. It's British, so am I now an African British person?

Well it depends on lots of bits which we don't know, do we.

But the posters DD wouldn't necessarily be British legally, identity wise or ethnically if she was born here. You don't just get tick ethnicity of place you were simply born at.

Are you saying you retract your earlier comments and you don't think sexuality is a choice?

I am a British citizen with a British passport. It costs a mint to be naturalised, and I had to work through the Life in the UK book, asking questions many British born people possibly couldn't answer outright.

Why are you refusing to answer the point about sexuality

I am a British citizen with a British passport. It costs a mint to be naturalised, and I had to work through the Life in the UK book, asking questions many British born people possibly couldn't answer outright.

All of that notwithstanding, your understanding of the requirements for British citizenship is incorrect.

Legally yes. But ethnicity doesn't just change with your passport.

How did you pass LIT and then plop out something like "Southern Ireland" 😳

Passport has nothing to do with ethnicity anyway.

As the OP has pointed out, it's possible to apply for citizenship of another country.

You could become naturalised in a country where you weren't born, you didn't grow up in, where the culture doesn't resonate and where you have no genetic ancestry.

Plenty of people move around for work, fall in love with someone and choose to uproot their lives overseas and eventually become a citizen there. It doesn't change their ethnicity - although over time, they may identify more with that country.

Because OP doesn't give a shit about offending people, as is becoming increasingly obvious. There's one thing being accidentally offensive, and we've all done that, but doubling down on it and saying a bunch of other offensive things is just unpleasant.

At a guess, because it's easier to call posters judgemental than it is to take ownership for that hateful belief?

I don't see how a person can reasonably self-style as "inclusive" whilst having the worldview that sexuality, gender and race are all choices.

I honestly am getting so frustrated and I can understand why the book club decided to just ask the op to leave and not return.

I worded it badly. No one can help how or what they are born, and we are all human beings, wherever we're born.

If you didn't mean what you said, what did you mean?

Is there a group here which was not covered by anything offensive?
Just so it's fair and everyone gets a bit🙈