To be sad about grandparents not helping childcare

[ChickenRacer]

Ive heard so many stories about grandparents not wanting to help/be particularly involved with their grandchildren.I understand it’s not all grandparents, but their is a big proportion who just don’t help and support their children when they have small children.

Explanations for this often seem to be that the grandparents did their time parenting and now it’s their time to enjoy life. Which I do understand.

But to me though this seems so sad.

They say it takes a village to raise children - but grandparents are a huge part of many peoples village, so if they aren’t part of the village that’s less support for parents of young children.

This might upset some people, but I also wonder those grandparents that do not feel they want to help with the care of their grandchildren- do they still expect their adult children to care for them in their old age when they themselves need care? Will they pay their children to care for them, as some expect to be paid for caring for their grandchildren?

Please don’t be all upset by this, they are genuine questions.

I have 3 children and for various reasons have ZERO help from grandparents. But I very much hope if I am lucky enough to have grandchildren that I will be able to help my children with them in the best way for them. And I wouldn’t want them to have to care for me in my old age. 🤷‍♀️

The gnashing of teeth in sorrow at GPs failures to look after GC threads appear with equally tiresome regularity as SAHP threads. It's a valid link. You don't like it being made because it highlights the contradiction in your argument and you're (wisely!)not going to put yourself out there to accuse SAHPs of a life of leisure.
No one on this thread but you (for now, at least) is talking about occasional days out. It is, as always, about childcare. You're moving the goalposts to something else because it's easier than explaining why you think GPs should look after children for you as part of their 'leisure'.

My mum was 50 when she became a nana to my eldest and has always been hands on when we visited. She would happily do childcare for me and does for my sister but it is very much on her terms. She is very clear that she can only do 2 days and as my dad's health has taken a turn he is a bigger priority.

I think it should be up to the individual grandparent to decide without guilt tripping or judgement.

Well, the fact that there are threads most days about how much work it is to have family coming to stay, most people clearly do think it's work.

Hosting someone in your home, especially for a long period of time, is hard, whether they're family or not.

Parents put in physical or mental effort. Therefore it’s work. Wether it’s something you also enjoy, doesn’t change that it’s work.

So you consider anything that requires physical or mental effort to be work? Sports, going to the gym, reading a book, playing a musical instrument, going on holiday, somebody even mentioned having to "chat" to people as "work" 😆 so going out for a meal must be an endurance exercise. On this definition it seems pretty much any kind of hobby or social activity has now apparently been reclassified as work. Going for a walk was mentioned too. I'd love to know what such people consider to be a leisure activity given that all of that now apparently constitutes "work". I guess they must just sit completely still in a room in absolute silence.

As I said, bonkers.

Yes. It’s both. It’s not employment. It’s not a job title.

But it requires mental and physical effort. So the definition of work. It’s also enjoyable.

You may class it as leisure time. Some people may not As you are not free to do as you wish, as you have guests. But that doesn’t mean it’s not enjoyable, doesn’t mean you aren’t happy to do it, look forward to and are glad you do it.

Work doesn’t mean it’s not enjoyable. Work doesn’t only applied to paid work. Work doesn’t mean you don’t want to do it or do not enjoy something.

You seem to be unable to admit that being in sole charge of a child requires mental and physical effort, so is work. No child is going to have a good relationship with a grandparent, if the grandparent is not putting in mental and/or physical effort in. No matter how much time they ‘spend together’.

Again, how would a grandparent in sole charge of a child do so without any mental or physical effort.

Being in charge of a child is work. Your own, made up definition, or the word work does not apply.

I consider?

Do you know words have actual definitions?

So you consider anything that requires physical or mental effort to be work? Sports, going to the gym

Isn't that called doing a work out?

And yes, while the things you listed may also be enjoyable and done in your leisure time, they are also work.

According to the definition. I go to the gym and ‘work out’ and I ‘work hard’ in the gym. I enjoy it. It achieves a result. It’s tiring and draining and something I still enjoy.

Just like grandparents who look after their grandkids and enjoy doing so. They are doing something they want to do. And also putting in effort and, often, find it tiring. It’s no less work because they also enjoy it. It is still work and often hard work looking after kids all day, especially when you are older. Still can be enjoyable.

No one on this thread but you (for now, at least) is talking about occasional days out. It is, as always, about childcare.

All of my posts made it completely clear that I have nannies for childcare, have never asked for or expected any "childcare" from family and was speaking entirely about how sad it is that my children's grandparents have never spent any independent time with them for even a few hours, to go to the park or have them visit for lunch without me, ever. Not once. And that my children notice this: that other people's grandparents do this and theirs don't, so are less close to theirs as a result. They do not have the bond that their friends do with theirs, who have bothered to develop a relationship and don't view them as an inconvenience.

So if mine are not the posts you disagree with or what you mean by "childcare", then I'm not sure why it is my posts in particular that have elicited all of these outraged responses insisting that my parents spending a few hours once in a blue moon with my children to have them visit for lunch or go for a walk with them would have been me expecting them to "rear them" for me. In fact, if it wasn't so absurd that it can't be taken seriously it would be rather insulting.

Being expected to "rear their grandchildren", if they had spent a couple of hours with them alone, ever. I mean, honestly. You're making yourselves look beyond ridiculous.

somebody even mentioned having to "chat" to people as "work"

It can be.

Oh my God.

This is just beyond silly now.

How do you people even function in daily life? It must be so hard to get through the day if you see every single thing that requires you to either move or think at all as a chore. 😆

There’s only you that has decided ‘work’ is a negative thing

If it's not negative then why would it be a basis to say it's a huge imposition to do it?

I have two DC both under 6, we only have my dm left out of mine and dh's parents.
My mum is in her 60's amd works full time as a primary school teacher so she is happy to help when she can for the odd day here and there (school holidays etc) but she still works full time and she lives a fair drive away. She would rather (understandably) be the fun grandma that joins us for family days out etc rather than just having the kids on her own from 9am-6pm.
With people having kids at a later age, and people having to work till an older age it's unreasonable in general for people to expect childcare from grandparents to facilitate their working patterns.
If I had my children at the same age my mum had me she would be in her 70's, I don't expect she would be able to chase a toddler easily for hours on end at that age (of course that's a generalisation)
When I'm a grandparent I would love to be as involved in my grandchildrens lives as possible, but realistically I'll also be working full time into my 70's so I won't have that luxury

speaking entirely about how sad it is that my children's grandparents have never spent any independent time with them for even a few hours, to go to the park or have them visit for lunch without me, ever. Not once.

.. and that would still be childcare, because they'd be taking sole responsibility of your children for you. The fact that they're family members doesn't stop it being work.

I don't understand why it's so important for their grandparents to have them alone - they can build a relationship with each other while you're there too, can't they?

Not in the same way, no. As is evident from the very different relationship my children have with their grandparents compared to their friends and their grandparents, who have made the effort to have a relationship with them, rather than treating them as an accessory at family occasions.

I think it is often the case that when we were looked after by grandparents a lot, it's an indicator that our parents weren't really into children / childcare and let's face it, there's enough posts on MN to say how much better working is to being at home with young children. Those who feel bored or tired by looking after their own children- will they really metamorphose into doting grandparents eager to look after their children's young children?

What's often not appreciated is how much bloody hard work those young grandkids are, to look after all day, and yes boring too!

Well said

Because it’s tiring and not everyone’s choice to expend their energy that way.

You have a really narrow view. If something is enjoyable it can’t also be difficult, a lot of effort, tiring.

If it takes energy, is an effort, tiring etc it also can’t be enjoyable?

I don’t get how you live like that.

The word work is a neutral word.

let's face it, there's enough posts on MN to say how much better working is to being at home with young children

Excellent point. I was always a SAHM. Had to be really because one of my dc has quite severe learning disabilities. I really enjoyed being at home with them and am so glad I was. That's not to say it wasn't extremely hard work most of the time, the only peace was when they were asleep. It was definitely work and not something I'd expect someone in their 60s to do with any regularity.

If it takes energy, is an effort, tiring etc it also can’t be enjoyable?

I don’t get how you live like that.

That's the opposite of what I've been saying. Most worthwhile things to do use energy, all in fact. I mean, just breathing and staying alive consumes energy, does it not?

My entire point is that classifying anything that requires any effort or energy as "work" is a very sad way to look at life, and the implication that it is therefore a tiresome chore and an imposition, what an utterly miserable outlook.

Most people take great pleasure from time with family and friends and do not view this as "work". I think it's rather tragic that people find all leisure activities and family time so draining and seem to resent doing anything at all with their lives, from the descriptions here at how "draining" it is to talk to people or go for a walk or do anything that uses any mental or physical energy, when pretty much anything of interest or value can only be achieved by doing so. What a sad way to live.

Wow this is so true. Well put.

Agree 100% OP.

The word work has a definition.

You claim grandparents looking after grandchildren is not work. By its definition it is. Also, by its definition, the word work doesn’t mean ‘not enjoyable’.

You haven’t been able to answer how a grandparent can look after a grandchild and not expend any energy. Plenty of grandparents simply can not or do not want to expend energy in that way. They don’t want to be in sole charge a grandchild.

The only person implying work means not enjoyable or not worth doing, is you.

Looking after children is tiring. Especially, if you are elderly.

Often as people get older they find things more difficult. Mentally and physically. They may enjoy an activity but also acknowledge they can’t do it in the way they would like to. My Dad loves walking. He realises he can not do a week full of walks he likes anymore. He needs rest days in between. He enjoys it. But knows he can’t do what he used to. If I had young children, he probably wouldn’t cope that well at looking after a toddler. He would find it exhausting. He may not want to them spend the next day recovering because he has a walk planned later in the week. Does mean he wouldn’t also enjoy looking after one of my children.

The only Person saying that if you acknowledge that spending time with family involves work and therefore they don’t like doing it, is you.

You still can’t explain how you spend time with family and not expend any mental or physical effort. Doing that sounds absolutely dire. Either you spend time with people without interacting or doing anything with them, or you simply can’t admit you are wrong in your definition of ‘work’ People spend time together by doing things together. So therefore is work.

Your, made up, definition isn’t relevant because it’s incorrect.

a sad way to live would be spending time in the vicinity of people but not interacting or doing anything with them at all.

We live hundreds of miles from my parents and inlaws which is something I'm sad about. I know for certain that if the grandparents lived nearby they would have helped on an ad-hoc basis. For example, if me and DH wanted a night out or an occasional night away they would have babysat. Or they would have have taken the children out for the day sometimes. That's all lovely and beneficial for all involved.
I personally think it becomes problematic when grandparents are expected to provide weekly childcare - I mean like having the children for 3 days a week when the parents work, every single week. I think this is too much expect. It means the grandparents lives are restricted. They are committed to giving up 3 or 4 days of their lives every week to look after exhausting young children at a time when the grandparents are probably feeling rather tired! I mean most of us mums know how exhausting and relentless it is to be stuck in the house looking after small children, even if we've only done it for a few months on maternity leave. We can appreciate it's tough! In this situation the grandparents can't be spontaneous or please themselves. Even if my parents or in laws lived nearby I would not have wanted them to provide that level of childcare simply because I'd feel it was unfair for them to be committed to so many hours of child care each week.