Page 9 | MiL won't accept grandchildren conceived using donor sperm

Motherinlawisanightmare · 2023-05-05T08:24:31+00:00

Hi DH and I had to use donor sperm via ivf to create our wonderful family. MiL has always been insensitive about dh infertility - making comments about brother in law needing to start family and not supporting us through ivf miscarriages etc. Babies (twins) finally arrived and was very obvious she didn't feel they were her grandchildren. Although legally, due to biology she didnt percieve them to be her sons children and her grandchildren. While holding our precious babies she would continue to ask brother in law when is he going to have babies etc talking to everyone about when he has children what good dad he will be etc. Not ever making real effort with our kids. Bro in law has split with long term girlfriend and has said children aren't for him. She is "heartbroken" she won't have any grandchildren! We have spoken to her about these comments. I made it very clear how hurtful they are and that there are two children who adore her so get her act together. Although I feel now they are 4 years old, and given bro in law situation, she may finally be turning a corner, I am so angry and hurt I just don't know how I will get over all the comments and insensitivity especially some of the comments while I had our gorgeous baby twinnies in my arms and full of joy. I feel she robbed/ tainted some very precious times with the stress she caused. AIBU? Should I just forgive and forget. How dare she essentially reject our babies and treat dh horribly for the first 4 years of their life and now act like doting granny as nothing "better" coming!

pam290358 · 05/05/2023 15:11

DrunkLineDancing · 05/05/2023 13:31

I see adoption as completely different. The child already exists and needs people to love and care for them. It’s morally right. Creating children using donors is so far away from that, it’s not comparable. It’s like when people use adoption to justify surrogacy, it’s nothing like it. Adoption is about doing the best for an existing child. Using donors is about what’s best for the adults.

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But your point was blood relations, not morality, so how is adoption any different than IVF ?

Coffeeandbourbons · 05/05/2023 15:12

I understand both perspectives here.

i understand somebody looking for advice or understanding with a unique personal situation probably isn’t the place for a philosophical debate about their donor egg children

but I also acknowledge there isn’t really anywhere else to have that debate if you feel strongly about it. People can feel so strongly about it (because they have negative personal experiences) that they feel they can’t ever let it go unchallenged and be normalised, no matter what the situation

lemons44 · 05/05/2023 15:19

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 14:39

@TheDogsArse - I am pretty sure none of us are biologically related to our dogs 😂

Discussions on Mumsnet about donor sperm and eggs always descend very rapidly into some very unpleasant territories. I think it's important that people who are not aware of this are made aware of it quickly, as I can quite imagine that if you come looking for support on an issue about donors and quickly get people coming on telling you that you are ethically corrupt, selfish etc. then it can be rather upsetting. Perhaps evidenced by the OP feeling she has had to leave her own thread when she was just looking for support about a situation that is causing her upset.

As I see it, you actively chose to come on to a post made by a woman looking for support about a situation that is causing her distress regarding her children, to tell her that you agree with the MIL and to challenge her ethical decisions (that go to the very heart of her family and their identity). Whilst she did post in AIBU, that just seems necessarily unpleasant to me. It's a very mumsnet thing, isn't it, to think its fine to be cruel to people looking for support?

You also confirmed that if your own children were unfortunate enough to have fertility problems then you would distance yourself from them if they used donor sperm and treat the child differently. I think that makes you an awful human being. And to be clear, that is not because of your views - you are of course entitled to any view you wish to have - but because your love for your child is that conditional.

I'm not in any way ranting (you and I clearly have a different view on the use of the word cunt, as well) but you have been deeply unpleasant towards the OP in coming on to this post, and so I am totally relaxed about calling that out. Like I say, you are 100% entitled to your own views, and I am entitled to think they make you unpleasant. You presumably won't care that I think that, as presumably you think I am an idiot. That's fine, we can all disagree. I just don't see any need to compound somebody's upset by being mean in a post when they are looking for support. Even in AIBU!

👏👏👏👏
Absolutely spot on with this.

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 15:24

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 14:59

Biologically related to our dogs??? You’ve lost me there.

If you look at my first couple of posts I said I wouldn’t behave like MIL, that she’s being unfair and that in MILs position I would take a step back as her son has made a decision he is allowed to make.

You're right that I don’t care what you think of me.

I see your rant about cunts on mumsnet has been deleted so presumably you were reported for being the unpleasant one. As I think you may start calling people, me?, a cunt and mumsnet must have thought it was a personal attack, I’m not going to engage with you further.

Not everyone will agree with you in life. Calling them cunts isn’t the answer.

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I was referring to your funny typo in your previous post with the reference to the dog.

I see you haven't actually bothered to substantively respond to any of my points regarding your treatment of the OP - which I suspect sums the whole thing up. Like I say, I am absolutely fine to call out bullying. If you come on to a post and intentionally say things to upset the OP who has asked for support, you deserve to be called out. Pretending like I am ranting, or you are the victim here, is just silly I definitely didn't call you (or anybody specific) a cunt. I think we both know that. If you wish to interpret my use of the word cunt as referring to you, then that probably says something about your own reflections on your behaviour on this post.

You clearly said that you would distance yourself from your own child, and have since gone on to confirm - in reality - you would treat the grandchildren differently, even if you don't want to actually type that. There isn't any other way your posts can be interpreted.

Like I have clearly said, I am absolutely fine that we have different opinions. No issue at all. Life would be boring if we all thought the same. I don't like bullies though, at all.

LaMaG · 05/05/2023 15:29

Pallisers · 05/05/2023 12:54

I wonder did some of my relatives feel like this about me and my siblings who were adopted. Maybe they felt differently about us but managed not to show it. It never occurred to me that they would but this isn't the only poster saying biology matters and it is ok for someone to not feel related to their son's children if they aren't biologically his. Should I feel differently about my nephews and nieces than DH does because I am not biologically related to mine but he is to his?

I can't be the only adopted adult kind of gobsmacked at some of the responses on this thread. For some people the definition of family seems very very narrow. There isn't a finite amount of love to go around.

OP, I wouldn't have any time for this woman. Wouldn't even be arsed going no contact. Just wouldn't bother with her and I certainly would actively discourage a relationship with your children. Say hello when you see her and don't bother making arrangements to see her. If your dh wants to have a relationship, that's up to him.

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I agree 100% pallisers. I must be naive - I am mid 40s and until reading this post it never occurred to me that as an adopted person I was not as welcomed or cherished by extended family. I am absolutely in shock at OPs MIL and some posts here. I genuinely never thought of the biological connection in that way, I cannot believe that people feel this way. It's really upsetting. My father has always been a little distant and cold suddenly I'm wondering if it was because he held this view too?? My adopted sis and I were first grandkids and absolutely spoiled rotten by a loving extended family and I always felt we were very blessed but now am questioning everything

uncomfortablydumb53 · 05/05/2023 15:35

Your MiL is disgraceful
At 4 years old, they won't realise, but they very soon will
My Cousin adopted two DD's and has just had her first DGD and the whole family are delighted
Maybe IVF and donor sperm are a recent idea to her, but the resulting twins deserve to be welcomed all the same
I really feel for your DH too

Hoollaaahooops · 05/05/2023 15:39

Greenissle · 05/05/2023 09:37

I wouldn't have even shared the information that it wasn't his biological children, why tell people that.

Who TF doesn’t discuss this stuff with family, friends even!?

Fifi0 · 05/05/2023 15:47

I think humans should be with their own kin wherever possible. Donor conception rips that apart. I'd struggle with adoption at first because not biologically mine but I would bond overtime.

almostwarm · 05/05/2023 15:50

Grandmother shouldn't make unpleasant comments to either son or grandchildren regardless of her thoughts.
It is also perfectly possible to deeply love people who aren't biologically related to you.

There is something unique however in biological relationships, although that certainly doesn't automatically mean that you are going to love someone more as a result.
The recognition of linked traits and characteristics is real and interesting.

Hoollaaahooops · 05/05/2023 15:53

Fifi0 · 05/05/2023 15:47

I think humans should be with their own kin wherever possible. Donor conception rips that apart. I'd struggle with adoption at first because not biologically mine but I would bond overtime.

Thankfully you’d never be approved to adopt with views like those

Dulra · 05/05/2023 15:53

I think humans should be with their own kin wherever possible
Seriously? Go give your head a wobble that is a ridiculous statement, what do you even define as "your own kin"?

Some of the responses on here are akin to how people viewed and treated "illegitimate" kids in the past. Whatever your ethical view is the kids are here treat them with love and respect is that really so hard fgs

CoffeeYes · 05/05/2023 15:56

Fifi0 · 05/05/2023 10:05

Devils advocate but she's probably old so donor sperm and IVF wasn't around then. She sounds like a terrible woman but yes 4 years is a long time for her to not get her head around the biology thing. Biology is incredibly important to some people. I'd stop pushing for a relationship its damaging for your DC. If BIL has a biological child your DC will probably get dropped.
I personally wouldn't be able to use donor eggs or sperm because I'd view it as not my child or related to me. Some people don't feel they are capable.

I just googled it and sperm donation became commercialised in the 1970s. Unless OP’s DH is an old parent and therefore his mother is very old too, then OP’s MIL will have known about sperm donation for a long time. My parents and in-laws are grandparents (to my child) and they were all born in the 70s. They know what sperm donation is even though they never used it.

I wouldn’t use donor sperm or eggs because the child wouldn’t be biologically mine or my DP’s. However, OP’s MIL should view her grandchildren as someone with adopted grandchildren should - legally theirs even though genetics don’t play a part.

Hoollaaahooops · 05/05/2023 15:57

Dulra · 05/05/2023 15:53

I think humans should be with their own kin wherever possible
Seriously? Go give your head a wobble that is a ridiculous statement, what do you even define as "your own kin"?

Some of the responses on here are akin to how people viewed and treated "illegitimate" kids in the past. Whatever your ethical view is the kids are here treat them with love and respect is that really so hard fgs

many on MN are older parents so it does colour discussions like these I find. As you can really see outdated views coming through

almostwarm · 05/05/2023 16:00

To be fair the UK has the legal view that children should remain with their kin wherever possible and social workers are charged with trying to ensure this.
It often isn't possible hence fostering and adoption but it is also the first option to consider.

Kyse · 05/05/2023 16:00

People saying about not blood relatives... I mean technically I shouldn't bother with my grandad on one side, grandma on the other or auntie, or my dads SIL who is married again not to his brother, or any side of the family that isn't blood

My aunties grandparents aren't blood but they feel like it

LaMaG · 05/05/2023 16:04

AIBU unreasonable for secretly wishing certain posters find out their Dad isn't really their father?

LocalHobo · 05/05/2023 16:15

You also confirmed that if your own children were unfortunate enough to have fertility problems then you would distance yourself from them if they used donor sperm and treat the child differently. I think that makes you an awful human being. And to be clear, that is not because of your views - you are of course entitled to any view you wish to have - but because your love for your child is that conditional.
Not just fertility issues, also genetically inherited, life-limiting illnesses.
I am so sorry that the op has been forced to leave this discussion, and so sorry for her DH for having a mother who is beyond vileness.
The idea that a non- biological DC or DGC would be treated with less love is beyond my comprehension. I don't believe age colours views on this situation.

FrostyFifi · 05/05/2023 16:17

@LaMaG I'm horrified as well. As I mentioned earlier I have an adopted nephew and niece and hand on heart I love them the same as their younger brother.
I agree it would be a valuable life lesson if they found out their beloved "blood ties" weren't that.
I think anyone who can't love someone in the same way even if they are the legal child of a relative is missing some internal wiring.

FrostyFifi · 05/05/2023 16:18

And as for leaving children with their "blood kin" wherever possible - a spate of recent, high-profile infanticide cases have shown how well that can work.

Fifi0 · 05/05/2023 16:18

Hoollaaahooops · 05/05/2023 15:53

Thankfully you’d never be approved to adopt with views like those

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I wouldn't ever want to adopt because I don't think I could love someone unrelated equally to my bio DC. I was referring if my DC adopted grandchildren. I admit it and yes being with kin is seen as the best outcome. Social services always try to place the dc first with suitable relatives before fostering or adopting out to strangers.

Pallisers · 05/05/2023 16:20

I think anyone who can't love someone in the same way even if they are the legal child of a relative is missing some internal wiring.

I agree. And not someone Id want around my child even if they magnanimously managed to "bond over time"

Fifi0 · 05/05/2023 16:25

Pallisers · 05/05/2023 16:20

I think anyone who can't love someone in the same way even if they are the legal child of a relative is missing some internal wiring.

I agree. And not someone Id want around my child even if they magnanimously managed to "bond over time"

I have biological DC I cannot imagine loving the same it's how I feel so i wouldn't use a donor egg or adopt . I feel closer to my biological niece vs inlaw nieces because I have a close relationship with my sister. I'm not trying to be cruel it's honesty.

SafferUpNorth · 05/05/2023 16:30

Fifi0 · 05/05/2023 16:25

I have biological DC I cannot imagine loving the same it's how I feel so i wouldn't use a donor egg or adopt . I feel closer to my biological niece vs inlaw nieces because I have a close relationship with my sister. I'm not trying to be cruel it's honesty.

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@Fifi0 ... OK, that's how you feel as you have bio DC. But what if you or DH were infertile and couldn't have bio DC? Are you seriously saying you would totally rule out donor gamete or adoption?

FrostyFifi · 05/05/2023 16:31

I feel closer to my biological niece vs inlaw nieces because I have a close relationship with my sister

What if your sister had had your niece using a donor egg? Would you feel less close then?
I do get feeling less close to inlaw nephew and nieces but I don't think that's a genetic pull, I think that's family dynamics.

AcrossthePond55 · 05/05/2023 16:36

LaMaG · 05/05/2023 15:29

I agree 100% pallisers. I must be naive - I am mid 40s and until reading this post it never occurred to me that as an adopted person I was not as welcomed or cherished by extended family. I am absolutely in shock at OPs MIL and some posts here. I genuinely never thought of the biological connection in that way, I cannot believe that people feel this way. It's really upsetting. My father has always been a little distant and cold suddenly I'm wondering if it was because he held this view too?? My adopted sis and I were first grandkids and absolutely spoiled rotten by a loving extended family and I always felt we were very blessed but now am questioning everything

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@Pallisers @LaMaG

Don't question it. I'm adopted too and have always felt just as loved, just as accepted, by my parents and the entire family (maternal and paternal) as the 'bio' members.

@LaMaG
As far as your dad goes, remember that people are different, emotionally. Some people are 'out there' with their emotions (hugs, kisses, I love yous) and others are more reserved but that doesn't mean they don't feel the love as deeply as someone who is more demonstrative. Both my parents tended to be 'undemonstrative' as that's simply the way they were raised. But they showed their love for my brother (also adopted) and I in a 1000 other ways. We knew we were loved as sure as we knew the sun would rise in the east. I'm sure your dad loved you just the same, he just wasn't the 'out there' type.

I, too, am gobsmacked at some of the callous replies to this thread. Some people simply don't think before they type. Or they are just plain pig-ignorant.