Page 12 | MiL won't accept grandchildren conceived using donor sperm

Motherinlawisanightmare · 2023-05-05T08:24:31+00:00

Hi DH and I had to use donor sperm via ivf to create our wonderful family. MiL has always been insensitive about dh infertility - making comments about brother in law needing to start family and not supporting us through ivf miscarriages etc. Babies (twins) finally arrived and was very obvious she didn't feel they were her grandchildren. Although legally, due to biology she didnt percieve them to be her sons children and her grandchildren. While holding our precious babies she would continue to ask brother in law when is he going to have babies etc talking to everyone about when he has children what good dad he will be etc. Not ever making real effort with our kids. Bro in law has split with long term girlfriend and has said children aren't for him. She is "heartbroken" she won't have any grandchildren! We have spoken to her about these comments. I made it very clear how hurtful they are and that there are two children who adore her so get her act together. Although I feel now they are 4 years old, and given bro in law situation, she may finally be turning a corner, I am so angry and hurt I just don't know how I will get over all the comments and insensitivity especially some of the comments while I had our gorgeous baby twinnies in my arms and full of joy. I feel she robbed/ tainted some very precious times with the stress she caused. AIBU? Should I just forgive and forget. How dare she essentially reject our babies and treat dh horribly for the first 4 years of their life and now act like doting granny as nothing "better" coming!

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 19:49

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 19:42

@Rosscameasdoody sadly the only active thing Mumsnet has done is take down a post defending the OP, which speaks volumes.

The problem wasn’t the defending of the poster. You called someone a cunt which is against mumsnet rules.

phoenixrosehere · 05/05/2023 19:51

Rosscameasdoody · 05/05/2023 19:36

This is an awful thread. MN moderator has stepped in once so don’t think it’ll be long before it’s pulled, thankfully. To my mind a true father is one who is there for the child, providing a loving, safe environment in which to grow up and being there through good and bad with unconditional love and support. Everything else is just biology.

To my mind a true father is one who is there for the child, providing a loving, safe environment in which to grow up and being there through good and bad with unconditional love and support. Everything else is just biology.

Agree. How many posts on AIBU are about toxic blood-related family members? This is one about a son who hoped his own mother would be of some support to him during their struggle with infertility and care about the children that they were able to have only to now care because her other son may not have children.

I can only imagine this mother’s response if her other son was found to have the same issues as this son.

I couldn’t do this to my own sons. If they choose to have children, I will treat them as their children, my grandchildren regardless if they came into their world, naturally, through ivf, adoption, etc.

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 19:51

@LateNightsByTheLake well it’s getting pretty boring now, but no I didn’t. Please stop saying I did when I didn’t.

bondsy · 05/05/2023 19:55

'We don’t all have to say well done on creating a child using an unethical process. If you want that, go to the clinic who will tell you how great it is whilst making thousands. They forget to think of the child in future years.'

@LateNightsByTheLake

THIS 👏 ISNT 👏 HELPING 👏 THE 👏 OP

What does your nasty comment add except being selfish by voicing your own offensive views that don't help at all. It's not like she can shove her donor children back up her vagina.

This thread has turned so NASTY. I hope MN delete the whole thing.

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 19:59

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 19:41

But @LateNightsByTheLake I didn’t call anybody specific a cunt did I? Like I say, if people think I am referring to them then that suggests they know they are doing something that could have it targeted at them.

Nobody says you need to say well done. You don’t need to say anything. Not that I have even noticed one of your posts so far, so if you haven’t said anything offensive then I don’t have any issue with you at all. But there are posters on here who have actively chosen to come into a thread posted by a distressed woman to criticise her choices and ethics, call her selfish and undermine her family. So that she leaves her own thread. Who does that? Nobody made those people speak. They - of their own free will - opted to involve themselves in a discussion by being nasty and vindictive. Then they get all upset when called out on it.

If people actively chose to be nasty to others, then they need to be capable of accepting criticism in return. If they can’t cope with it, they shouldn’t be nasty. It’s pretty basic.

But, like I say, I haven’t noticed any of your comments particularly on this post so far 🤷‍♀️

You made your comment about cunts after arguing with a poster. Then you tagged that same poster in the post just underneath your comment along with calling them a bigot and telling them their children will disown them. Mumsnet must have seen it for what it was as they deleted it.

The conversation about the ethics was relevant when it’s about a family member not accepting the children. Not everyone will. It is a controversial topic. Who does that? Those that know how problematic using donors are and the issues it causes for the kids and the wider family. It isn’t nasty to discuss those things, it just appears that way when you don’t want to accept there are problems with the ethics and not everyone just accepts without question.

AnorLondo · 05/05/2023 19:59

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 19:48

If you read my initial post, I said that the MIL needs to do better if she wants a relationship with them and that if OP couldn’t forgive her then that’s understandable.

There was also talk of the ethics of donors which happens on threads like this and anyone is free to comment on them. If people don't want opinions, they shouldn’t post. I’m allowed to post within talk guidelines, its not my job to make others feel warm and fuzzy about their decisions. If you post on here, you should be strong enough to deal with it, no one has to post. It’s a controversial topic as I’m sure OP knows.

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Yes you can post here, that doesn't mean you should. Throwing harsh judgements at OP about the manner in which her children were conceived serves no purpose except to make you feel smug and superior.

Iwasafool · 05/05/2023 19:59

Maybe the children only have problems because the wider family refuse to accept them fully. I know someone who was conceived by donor insemination, she went through a phase as a teenager where she was upset about it but then teenagers often get upset about something. As an adult she seems to have forgotten all about it.

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 20:00

bondsy · 05/05/2023 19:55

'We don’t all have to say well done on creating a child using an unethical process. If you want that, go to the clinic who will tell you how great it is whilst making thousands. They forget to think of the child in future years.'

@LateNightsByTheLake

THIS 👏 ISNT 👏 HELPING 👏 THE 👏 OP

What does your nasty comment add except being selfish by voicing your own offensive views that don't help at all. It's not like she can shove her donor children back up her vagina.

This thread has turned so NASTY. I hope MN delete the whole thing.

The OP disappeared a long time ago.

AnorLondo · 05/05/2023 20:01

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 20:00

The OP disappeared a long time ago.

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Yes, because of people like you.

FrostyFifi · 05/05/2023 20:02

I'm not surprised the OP has disappeared. All that absolute bollocks talk about kin and demoting the children's dad to a stepfather.
Uttter ignorance.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 05/05/2023 20:03

Quoronation · 05/05/2023 19:13

She would have been able to tell when they were born. They wouldn't have looked a thing like him

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DS1 looked nothing like DH at birth. He was the spitting image of me.

DS2 looked nothing like either of us. Funnily enough, no one has ever questioned if he was the result of donor eggs and sperm

Quoronation · 05/05/2023 20:07

EmmaGrundyForPM · 05/05/2023 20:03

DS1 looked nothing like DH at birth. He was the spitting image of me.

DS2 looked nothing like either of us. Funnily enough, no one has ever questioned if he was the result of donor eggs and sperm

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Not to your face

Quoronation · 05/05/2023 20:08

Coffeeandbourbons · 05/05/2023 15:12

I understand both perspectives here.

i understand somebody looking for advice or understanding with a unique personal situation probably isn’t the place for a philosophical debate about their donor egg children

but I also acknowledge there isn’t really anywhere else to have that debate if you feel strongly about it. People can feel so strongly about it (because they have negative personal experiences) that they feel they can’t ever let it go unchallenged and be normalised, no matter what the situation

They can start another thread

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 20:09

AnorLondo · 05/05/2023 20:01

Yes, because of people like you.

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Not my problem. OP must be comfortable with her decision as she wouldn’t have done it. If you do controversial things and post about it, you may not like the replies.

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 20:11

@LateNightsByTheLake - The post that was deleted was my first post, I hadn’t been arguing with anybody, you are talking nonsense. I came on to offer support to the OP and noted that some people were being cruel (and shock horror I used the term cunts). It wasn’t aimed at anybody specific, I wasn’t in an argument with anybody. Please stop twisting things.

There are posts discussing the ethics of donor sperm and eggs quite frequently on MN. I don’t go on them as I know that there will be aspects that I find offensive, so I avoid them. This post was not one of those. It requires absolutely no debate about the ethics of donor usage. It required advice on how to manage her MIL, and support for her distress.

Honestly, I cannot get my head around people who simultaneously lecture others about needing to be resilient enough to accept others have differing views while being incapable of accepting others defending differing views. It’s mind boggling. I don’t care in the slightest that you and others have views that differ to mine. I care that people have intentionally come into a post to cause increased distress to a woman looking for support. To drive her out of her own post. And then they have a hissy fit when called out as being bullies. The hypocrisy is just mind blowing.

Just to say I won’t be replying to you further as you clearly are focused on diverting attention from the behaviour of those people by obsessing on the use of the term cunt. Lesson learned by me. Have a good night.

JudgeRudy · 05/05/2023 20:11

Whilst I feel for you and your husband, I'm unsure what you expect from her now. Does she treat your children well? Do they call her Nana/Granny? Do they enjoy having her in their life?
If your children are aware of their origins and they are happy with MIL I don't really think you're being realistic to expect her to change her feelings. They're not her grandchildren, biologically. She's entitled to feel as she does.
What eoild be unacceptable is if she treats them badly or unfairly. Let's assume BIL doesn't go on to have children and yours are 'all she has'. Do you want that bond to strengthen or just stay as it is. Changing the past isn't an option.

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 20:18

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 20:11

@LateNightsByTheLake - The post that was deleted was my first post, I hadn’t been arguing with anybody, you are talking nonsense. I came on to offer support to the OP and noted that some people were being cruel (and shock horror I used the term cunts). It wasn’t aimed at anybody specific, I wasn’t in an argument with anybody. Please stop twisting things.

There are posts discussing the ethics of donor sperm and eggs quite frequently on MN. I don’t go on them as I know that there will be aspects that I find offensive, so I avoid them. This post was not one of those. It requires absolutely no debate about the ethics of donor usage. It required advice on how to manage her MIL, and support for her distress.

Honestly, I cannot get my head around people who simultaneously lecture others about needing to be resilient enough to accept others have differing views while being incapable of accepting others defending differing views. It’s mind boggling. I don’t care in the slightest that you and others have views that differ to mine. I care that people have intentionally come into a post to cause increased distress to a woman looking for support. To drive her out of her own post. And then they have a hissy fit when called out as being bullies. The hypocrisy is just mind blowing.

Just to say I won’t be replying to you further as you clearly are focused on diverting attention from the behaviour of those people by obsessing on the use of the term cunt. Lesson learned by me. Have a good night.

Glad you’ve learned a lesson. 🤓

FrostyFifi · 05/05/2023 20:29

Not to your face

I'm not sure what possesses people to spread such spite and poison around.

This topic seems to attract some really awful people.

AnorLondo · 05/05/2023 20:30

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 20:09

Not my problem. OP must be comfortable with her decision as she wouldn’t have done it. If you do controversial things and post about it, you may not like the replies.

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It's not yout problem but it is your fault. I'm sure you feel very happy about it though.

I'm sorry about your lack of empathy. I'm even more sorry for all the victims of your bullying who I'm sure are out there.

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 20:36

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 20:11

@LateNightsByTheLake - The post that was deleted was my first post, I hadn’t been arguing with anybody, you are talking nonsense. I came on to offer support to the OP and noted that some people were being cruel (and shock horror I used the term cunts). It wasn’t aimed at anybody specific, I wasn’t in an argument with anybody. Please stop twisting things.

There are posts discussing the ethics of donor sperm and eggs quite frequently on MN. I don’t go on them as I know that there will be aspects that I find offensive, so I avoid them. This post was not one of those. It requires absolutely no debate about the ethics of donor usage. It required advice on how to manage her MIL, and support for her distress.

Honestly, I cannot get my head around people who simultaneously lecture others about needing to be resilient enough to accept others have differing views while being incapable of accepting others defending differing views. It’s mind boggling. I don’t care in the slightest that you and others have views that differ to mine. I care that people have intentionally come into a post to cause increased distress to a woman looking for support. To drive her out of her own post. And then they have a hissy fit when called out as being bullies. The hypocrisy is just mind blowing.

Just to say I won’t be replying to you further as you clearly are focused on diverting attention from the behaviour of those people by obsessing on the use of the term cunt. Lesson learned by me. Have a good night.

Crazy thread.

It was your first post I think, but it was likely that you were talking about me as you did @ me in the same post and you were pissed at my opinion. 🤣

I didn’t care that you appeared to call me a cunt. No hissy fit from me, it was you that lost control and had a fit. Mumsnet didn’t like it though as it’s been deleted. I’m all for posts bring left to stand.

Tiddlypomtiddlypom · 05/05/2023 20:37

LateNightsByTheLake · 05/05/2023 19:30

It was you that said there were some proper cunts on mumsnet on this thread. Presumably you were referring to at least some of us on this thread that disagreed with you. You also mentioned a certain poster in the same post and didn’t like their opinions. It seems fairly obvious who it was directed at. Mumsnet deleted it so they must have thought you aimed it at an individual as they allow swearing but not sweary name calling.

We don’t all have to say well done on creating a child using an unethical process. If you want that, go to the clinic who will tell you how great it is whilst making thousands. They forget to think of the child in future years.

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And @CuriousGeorge80 was absolutely right. Fuck, this place can be grim.

I wonder what the MIL actually objects to, because it rather sounds (based on what she said to the BIL) like it’s just that she sets a lot of store by ‘biology’, rather than any moral issue of donation.

So by that logic, she’d also reject adopted children. Any most, if not all posters, would be suitably horrified by that.

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 20:37

People keep mentioning bullying but nothing has been deleted. Opposing opinions on AIBU are not bullying.

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 20:43

@AnorLondo well said

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 20:44

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 20:36

Crazy thread.

It was your first post I think, but it was likely that you were talking about me as you did @ me in the same post and you were pissed at my opinion. 🤣

I didn’t care that you appeared to call me a cunt. No hissy fit from me, it was you that lost control and had a fit. Mumsnet didn’t like it though as it’s been deleted. I’m all for posts bring left to stand.

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😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

phoenixrosehere · 05/05/2023 20:50

Tiddlypomtiddlypom · 05/05/2023 20:37

And @CuriousGeorge80 was absolutely right. Fuck, this place can be grim.

I wonder what the MIL actually objects to, because it rather sounds (based on what she said to the BIL) like it’s just that she sets a lot of store by ‘biology’, rather than any moral issue of donation.

So by that logic, she’d also reject adopted children. Any most, if not all posters, would be suitably horrified by that.

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Agree. Others seem to have assumed it was about ethics and then ran with it. For all we know, the BIL is simply the golden child and it wouldn’t have mattered if the OP’s DH had the children naturally. She might have ignored them anyway if BIL had children. Isn’t completely unheard of here.