Page 8 | MiL won't accept grandchildren conceived using donor sperm

Motherinlawisanightmare · 2023-05-05T08:24:31+00:00

Hi DH and I had to use donor sperm via ivf to create our wonderful family. MiL has always been insensitive about dh infertility - making comments about brother in law needing to start family and not supporting us through ivf miscarriages etc. Babies (twins) finally arrived and was very obvious she didn't feel they were her grandchildren. Although legally, due to biology she didnt percieve them to be her sons children and her grandchildren. While holding our precious babies she would continue to ask brother in law when is he going to have babies etc talking to everyone about when he has children what good dad he will be etc. Not ever making real effort with our kids. Bro in law has split with long term girlfriend and has said children aren't for him. She is "heartbroken" she won't have any grandchildren! We have spoken to her about these comments. I made it very clear how hurtful they are and that there are two children who adore her so get her act together. Although I feel now they are 4 years old, and given bro in law situation, she may finally be turning a corner, I am so angry and hurt I just don't know how I will get over all the comments and insensitivity especially some of the comments while I had our gorgeous baby twinnies in my arms and full of joy. I feel she robbed/ tainted some very precious times with the stress she caused. AIBU? Should I just forgive and forget. How dare she essentially reject our babies and treat dh horribly for the first 4 years of their life and now act like doting granny as nothing "better" coming!

StillWantingADog · 05/05/2023 13:52

I wouldn’t want my kids to be near a relative that could easily treat them as second class citizens in the future if she does eventually have “biological” grand children.

i think it’s for your dh to sort out though (with your support) not you. Presumably he is very hurt by the situation.

KimberleyClark · 05/05/2023 13:54

DrunkLineDancing · 05/05/2023 13:31

I see adoption as completely different. The child already exists and needs people to love and care for them. It’s morally right. Creating children using donors is so far away from that, it’s not comparable. It’s like when people use adoption to justify surrogacy, it’s nothing like it. Adoption is about doing the best for an existing child. Using donors is about what’s best for the adults.

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This. Adoption is about meeting the needs of an already existing child. Surrogacy is not about meeting the needs of a child at all. It’s about meeting the wants of adults.

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You will be very unhappy to know that my children, (adults and teens, bio and adopted), share my views on donor sperm/eggs due to our actual experiences. I’ll let you know if that changes. 😉

Triflenot · 05/05/2023 13:57

How come your children adore her? Mine certainly didn’t adore their grandparents.
If they regard her positively she must be doing something right.

I can see how she may be sad that the family genes won’t continue though. Maybe a bit of sensitivity both ways would help.

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 13:58

@TheDogsArse so you rejected your grandchild and distanced yourself from your own child because they used a donor. That’s really sad. I hope your child is ok. (I assume that’s what you mean as it’s the only way your post is a relevant response to mine). 👍

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 13:59

@DrunkLineDancing I see no reason why one can’t be a principled bigot? So probably both views work.

almostwarm · 05/05/2023 14:02

ohsuzannah · 05/05/2023 10:51

Why on Earth would you tell her you used donor sperm?
That's nobody's business but yours!
( speaking from experience here)

Because the dc themselves need to know this. For it not to have a negative impact on them they ideally need to know as early as possible so it is just a normal part of their lives.
Small dc aren't great at keeping private information private therefore it would be likely that a family member would understand what had happened quite quickly.

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 14:03

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 13:58

@TheDogsArse so you rejected your grandchild and distanced yourself from your own child because they used a donor. That’s really sad. I hope your child is ok. (I assume that’s what you mean as it’s the only way your post is a relevant response to mine). 👍

Lol. What are you talking about? No donor used by us or my children. My children are fantastic, thanks for asking.

Go and have a cuppa before you start ranting about “cunts on mumsnet” again. 🤭

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 14:04

@TheDogsArse exactly, so your little winky message to me was completely irrelevant to my post? So why post it?

thekindlyone · 05/05/2023 14:09

DrunkLineDancing · 05/05/2023 13:42

Or just someone who is principled? My principles also don’t just go out the window just because it’s my child that’s doing something unethical. I believe children should be centred and prioritised and using a donor doesn’t do that.

I’d be very torn if my children went down that route. I doubt that they would as they’ve seen the two people IRL we know grappling with the challenges that being donor conceived has caused them and the affect on their family. People don’t want to hear it because they want children, I understand that desire, but it’s still wrong imo. There’s big money in donor eggs/sperm/IVF/surrogacy unfortunately and that’s why we’re conditioned into thinking it’s ok and to hell with the consequences for the kids as they get older.

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So not agreeing with using a donor = principled but being okay with it = conditioned.

Thesharkradar · 05/05/2023 14:10

Forgive and forget?
Alliteration is for the birds, what you need here is poetry ....
DITCH THE BITCH
😎

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 14:10

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 14:04

@TheDogsArse exactly, so your little winky message to me was completely irrelevant to my post? So why post it?

You were making a dog at my so I told you why it’s unlikely to happen, but if it does I’ll accept it and let you know. Now do try to stop ranting about “cunts”. Mumsnet doesn’t like it when you call people cunts.

Coffeeandbourbons · 05/05/2023 14:12

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 11:16

If my kids used donors it would change my relationship with them. They know my views on donor sperm/eggs and I wouldn’t magically come around because the babies were put in front of me. It wouldn’t be about biology for me, as I wouldn’t struggle if my children chose to adopt, it’s about the ethics of using donors.

In your MILs position, it sounds like it is about biology and she can’t help how she feels. I would however, just take a step back rather than behaving how she has.

Hang on. The children don’t ask to be born and are blameless, same as children whose parents put them up for adoption. So why would it change your relationship with them, rather than just with their parents/your son?

Iwasafool · 05/05/2023 14:20

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 11:41

It would change my relationship with my own child. I would expect if my children were the sort of people that would use donors, then we would end up not being close anyway.

I’ve seen someone I love deal with being conceived using a donor egg. She’s part of an online group with other donor conceived people, many who are having a difficult time too. I really couldn’t be ok with it, seeing the impact it’s had.

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Yes very interesting but you didn't actually answer my question when you responded to my post. So would you treat the children differently to other grandchild and wouldn't that be punishing an innocent child?

phoenixrosehere · 05/05/2023 14:24

Have some posters forgotten there is a “See All” for OP’s post?

It’s less than four comments from OP giving details on how and why MiL knows , her DH’s relationship with his mum and her not returning to this thread which I definitely don’t blame her for.

Tiddlypomtiddlypom · 05/05/2023 14:25

Wow. I could not forgive that. Not ever. How can she treat her own son that way? Fucking hell.

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 14:29

Iwasafool · 05/05/2023 14:20

Yes very interesting but you didn't actually answer my question when you responded to my post. So would you treat the children differently to other grandchild and wouldn't that be punishing an innocent child?

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No, I wouldn’t treat the children differently just because my own child had done something unethical. But would a child who disagreed with me so much want me around their children? I would think potentially not. I would back off anyway so would naturally end up not as close.

Iwasafool · 05/05/2023 14:31

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 14:29

No, I wouldn’t treat the children differently just because my own child had done something unethical. But would a child who disagreed with me so much want me around their children? I would think potentially not. I would back off anyway so would naturally end up not as close.

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Not very clear there, you wouldn't treat them differently but you would back off and not be as close.

oakleaffy · 05/05/2023 14:31

Motherinlawisanightmare · 05/05/2023 09:39

@@JonahAndTheSnail DH has been in and out of counselling since we started ivf 8 years ago. It's been a hard journey for him and he debated cutting mil out. Went low contact for quite a while - lockdown made it easier! She is a manipulative difficult woman but ultimately he wants his mum in his life. She hasn't made any comments in front of kids for a few months.

Very good points about if bro in law meets new woman and had children. Hadn't thought of that...... it would really hurt dh and I to see her treat his kids differently.

Now I am finally a mum I just don't understand why some mums treat their children like this. I will always be there for my children

Your children are YOUR genetic material.
It’s not called the “ Selfish gene” for nothing.

Most step/ adopted children see how bio children are treated compared to them.

She shouldn’t keep mentioning it, though!

usererror99 · 05/05/2023 14:38

Not everyone agrees with the use of donors. Your MIL clearly doesn't either - she may have very valid ethical and moral objections and that is her right

Your choices about how you conceive and what you are happy to accept in terms of genetics/ biological links to your children are exactly that - your choices and you should accept that not everyone will agree with you
And you can't force a bond/link on them.

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 14:39

@TheDogsArse - I am pretty sure none of us are biologically related to our dogs 😂

Discussions on Mumsnet about donor sperm and eggs always descend very rapidly into some very unpleasant territories. I think it's important that people who are not aware of this are made aware of it quickly, as I can quite imagine that if you come looking for support on an issue about donors and quickly get people coming on telling you that you are ethically corrupt, selfish etc. then it can be rather upsetting. Perhaps evidenced by the OP feeling she has had to leave her own thread when she was just looking for support about a situation that is causing her upset.

As I see it, you actively chose to come on to a post made by a woman looking for support about a situation that is causing her distress regarding her children, to tell her that you agree with the MIL and to challenge her ethical decisions (that go to the very heart of her family and their identity). Whilst she did post in AIBU, that just seems necessarily unpleasant to me. It's a very mumsnet thing, isn't it, to think its fine to be cruel to people looking for support?

You also confirmed that if your own children were unfortunate enough to have fertility problems then you would distance yourself from them if they used donor sperm and treat the child differently. I think that makes you an awful human being. And to be clear, that is not because of your views - you are of course entitled to any view you wish to have - but because your love for your child is that conditional.

I'm not in any way ranting (you and I clearly have a different view on the use of the word cunt, as well) but you have been deeply unpleasant towards the OP in coming on to this post, and so I am totally relaxed about calling that out. Like I say, you are 100% entitled to your own views, and I am entitled to think they make you unpleasant. You presumably won't care that I think that, as presumably you think I am an idiot. That's fine, we can all disagree. I just don't see any need to compound somebody's upset by being mean in a post when they are looking for support. Even in AIBU!

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 14:40

Iwasafool · 05/05/2023 14:31

Not very clear there, you wouldn't treat them differently but you would back off and not be as close.

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I wouldn’t treat them differently when I saw them. I can’t say much more than that.

Sugarfree23 · 05/05/2023 14:48

Nothingisblackandwhite · 05/05/2023 13:06

That’s just awful 😞 . How do you deal with this ?

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I keep my distance and try never ask her for help.
She's not overly blatant so things like Christmas are exactly the same but it's the other small things. Like SIL let it slip MIL had her kids in the toy shop and bought various things. She's never treated my kids outwith Christmas/ Birthday.
And her general attitude she definitely has favourites.

TheDogsArse · 05/05/2023 14:59

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 14:39

@TheDogsArse - I am pretty sure none of us are biologically related to our dogs 😂

Discussions on Mumsnet about donor sperm and eggs always descend very rapidly into some very unpleasant territories. I think it's important that people who are not aware of this are made aware of it quickly, as I can quite imagine that if you come looking for support on an issue about donors and quickly get people coming on telling you that you are ethically corrupt, selfish etc. then it can be rather upsetting. Perhaps evidenced by the OP feeling she has had to leave her own thread when she was just looking for support about a situation that is causing her upset.

As I see it, you actively chose to come on to a post made by a woman looking for support about a situation that is causing her distress regarding her children, to tell her that you agree with the MIL and to challenge her ethical decisions (that go to the very heart of her family and their identity). Whilst she did post in AIBU, that just seems necessarily unpleasant to me. It's a very mumsnet thing, isn't it, to think its fine to be cruel to people looking for support?

You also confirmed that if your own children were unfortunate enough to have fertility problems then you would distance yourself from them if they used donor sperm and treat the child differently. I think that makes you an awful human being. And to be clear, that is not because of your views - you are of course entitled to any view you wish to have - but because your love for your child is that conditional.

I'm not in any way ranting (you and I clearly have a different view on the use of the word cunt, as well) but you have been deeply unpleasant towards the OP in coming on to this post, and so I am totally relaxed about calling that out. Like I say, you are 100% entitled to your own views, and I am entitled to think they make you unpleasant. You presumably won't care that I think that, as presumably you think I am an idiot. That's fine, we can all disagree. I just don't see any need to compound somebody's upset by being mean in a post when they are looking for support. Even in AIBU!

Biologically related to our dogs??? You’ve lost me there.

If you look at my first couple of posts I said I wouldn’t behave like MIL, that she’s being unfair and that in MILs position I would take a step back as her son has made a decision he is allowed to make.

You're right that I don’t care what you think of me.

I see your rant about cunts on mumsnet has been deleted so presumably you were reported for being the unpleasant one. As I think you may start calling people, me?, a cunt and mumsnet must have thought it was a personal attack, I’m not going to engage with you further.

Not everyone will agree with you in life. Calling them cunts isn’t the answer.

Rosscameasdoody · 05/05/2023 15:04

CuriousGeorge80 · 05/05/2023 14:39

@TheDogsArse - I am pretty sure none of us are biologically related to our dogs 😂

Discussions on Mumsnet about donor sperm and eggs always descend very rapidly into some very unpleasant territories. I think it's important that people who are not aware of this are made aware of it quickly, as I can quite imagine that if you come looking for support on an issue about donors and quickly get people coming on telling you that you are ethically corrupt, selfish etc. then it can be rather upsetting. Perhaps evidenced by the OP feeling she has had to leave her own thread when she was just looking for support about a situation that is causing her upset.

As I see it, you actively chose to come on to a post made by a woman looking for support about a situation that is causing her distress regarding her children, to tell her that you agree with the MIL and to challenge her ethical decisions (that go to the very heart of her family and their identity). Whilst she did post in AIBU, that just seems necessarily unpleasant to me. It's a very mumsnet thing, isn't it, to think its fine to be cruel to people looking for support?

You also confirmed that if your own children were unfortunate enough to have fertility problems then you would distance yourself from them if they used donor sperm and treat the child differently. I think that makes you an awful human being. And to be clear, that is not because of your views - you are of course entitled to any view you wish to have - but because your love for your child is that conditional.

I'm not in any way ranting (you and I clearly have a different view on the use of the word cunt, as well) but you have been deeply unpleasant towards the OP in coming on to this post, and so I am totally relaxed about calling that out. Like I say, you are 100% entitled to your own views, and I am entitled to think they make you unpleasant. You presumably won't care that I think that, as presumably you think I am an idiot. That's fine, we can all disagree. I just don't see any need to compound somebody's upset by being mean in a post when they are looking for support. Even in AIBU!

Very well said. There’s so much more unpleasantness on MN these days, and I’m at a loss to understand why, when someone is having a hard time IRL and posts for a bit of support, there are people who clearly post from no other motivation than using someone else’s misery for sport. I’ve seen so many OP’s driven from their own threads lately because posters have ignored the actual issue on which they are asking for comment, and honing in on the most minute, nitpicking details. A very recent thread was abandoned by the OP after she posted for support about a really distressing family row, and ended up being subjected to an unwarranted, nasty and sustained critique of her parenting skills, to the point where it was almost derailed. AIBU is always difficult but lately it’s becoming unnecessarily unpleasant and in some cases downright cruel. If posters wouldn’t say something to someone’s face, they really shouldn’t be posting it.