Who IBU my EX or me - leaving kids alone

[Exhater]

I have a DS14 and DD12, both stay at home regularly on their own whilst I am working all day. Often 8-9 hours.
They get themselves up and go to school, get themselves home. Manage on weekends and school holidays when I'm out of the house all day etc.

I sometimes go out in the evenings and leave them till 10pm, no issue.
Recently I had a bit of a later night out, spoke to the kids and said I would be home by midnight. All fine their end, sent them a takeaway everyone was happy.....or so I thought.

My Ex found out about this and hit the roof. We split in January this year, he currently has so home of his own so cannot take the kids overnight and sees them once every week or so for an afternoon out somewhere.
He doesn't think it's appropriate for me to leave them till midnight as "anything could happen" and "I'm abandoning them"
I'm always in regular text contact with them when I'm out, we have friends up the road for an emergency etc

My argument is that "anything could happen" in daylight hours. Just because it's dark doesn't mean the actual boogeyman is going to come out.

So....AIBU??

I'm confused, aren't they with their dad some nights? Surely you have your evening out then?

Also your children are PART of having a life, or at least they should be, you do come across as begrudging time and effort given to them

GTA at 12 and 14?

That’s absolutely true, and I definitely don’t think OP is a neglectful parent (and I sympathise with her on the matter of the feckless ex, of which I have one!)

What changed in the last 20 years? I was babysat by a 14 year at 11 I am fine and that 14 year old now is a friend, had a great professional job and is a very good parent.

I don’t think that your ex is being unreasonable tbh but what’s the solution? Can he come round and babysit? Will he report to social services? I know of a similar situation, it was a 14 year old and a 10 year old though and the social services report said that the 14 year old was having unreasonable demands placed on her due to the level of care she was expected to provide for the 10 year old. I think maybe it depends on how independent the 12 year old is?

As a one off it's fine. But check how many hours you get to spend with them a day. I have DC your age and am a single mum and there's A LOT of parenting to do: help with projects, emotional offloading, bonding time, checking in on homework and revision, hobbies, figuring out what's happening in their social lives etc.

The thing is it is not about judgment, morality or taking sides between father and mother, it is about what is best for the children. I have friends whose children went off the rails and their lives are hell. It is in your interests OP to do your best to avoid that happening with your children.

All these people judging because you leave your kids alone to work.

Must be lovely to not have to work full time to keep a roof over your head!! Ffs!

Some of us don’t have a choice, I’d rather leave my perfectly capable child alone than lose my home and be homeless, having him end up in hostels and temporary accommodation for Christ knows how long. You know children don’t do too well in those either and parents also suffer.

Ignore the people who have no clue OP. It’s fine.

To be fair someone choosing to babysit and presumably being paid to do so is different than a sibling having no choice. I was that sibling and although we got on I hated the expectation. That said if they're playing GTA together there's probably bigger issues.

Agree with regards to GTA!

Also agree with regards to being that sibling that had no choice but to babysit. Many years after leaving school one of the things most people remember about me from high school was that I was ALWAYS babysitting my siblings. My sibling and I have a close relationship but because my parents were mostly absent during waking hours of my high school years, because I was old enough to take the others to school, feed etc we absolutely do not.

@Barnbrack the op said in her first post he doesn't have them at all. The actual details of the op is important here. It's shifts, so it's not EVERY morning and EVERY evening and EVERY weekend. The socialising til ten is once a week. Which is perfectly fine if both kids are happy with that, which it appears they are. There's a lot of misreading on here that makes it sound like the op is never there at all.

2 nights out when you are already missing a lot of mornings and evenings due to work adds up to far too much time for your kids to be alone. One night every other week and a couple of breakfasts is fine for them to manage being alone, but multiple nights and mornings is just too much really. Obviously they've got used to this to some extent, but they aren't adults yet, and they need time with an adult there for them; not just putting a wash on, but talking with them. You are also making them very vulnerable like this, friends will know they are mostly alone and teenagers talk a lot, especially about where there is a house free of adults. I think it is important to look at your schedule; see if your ex or family will have them on some evenings when you are working, and skip the nights out some weeks to be with them.

Ah sitting playing GTA. Well I'm not surprised they're happy for you to leave the house so they can sit and play an 18 rated game with reference to crime, violence, sex, drugs and alcohol. I'd not want my mum sitting watching me play an 18 rated game either at the age of 12

@MRex what if the night out is a weekly evening class, or gym session? What if, as a newly single mother after the breakdown of a very significant relationship and working pretty tough hours, she needs one night a week for her own headspace? It's not just about "having a social life" but some element of self care.

Gym class doesn't run from 6-10pm. Ideally both parents step up, but unfortunately it sounds like dad doesn't want to. Care for the children still should come first for whatever parent remains, usully that's mum, but that doesn't make it ok to ignore the children's welfare. In 4 years time at 16 & 18, great, she can easily go out to work or socialise a couple of nights each week, but they are still very young for all this time being left alone.

I think what you’re doing is fine OP.

If your ex has a problem with it then he is the one who needs to come up with a solution. Is he booking leave during school holidays while you work so they are not alone so much? Asking when you need to work weekends so he can take the DC then? Moving heaven and earth to find a rental so he can have them overnight? I suspect he’s actually enjoying being home with mummy and doing minimal adulting while mummy cooks and cleans and in absolutely no hurry to move out even though it would be in the best interests of his DC if he got his own place that they could stay at.

The only thing I’d do different is try to organise sleepovers with the DCs friends and book your evenings out when they are staying with their friends And any time your ex has a whinge send him links to available rentals and ask if he’s looked at them or what leave he is planning to take in the next holidays.

If you ex has an issue OP then he needs to step up. How dare he criticise you when he’s not even doing the bare minimum!

My DC are 14 and 11 and I wouldn't leave them to go out in the evening. Partly because I want to see them (but they do spend half the week with their dad, so different scenario) and partly because they would need to put themselves to bed or be exhausted if I were out late. And in the event of an emergency (e.g. fire) they'd be on their own.

You have to work, and your arrangement there seems fine to me. But I do think it was U to go out until midnight. Their dad would ideally like to spend more time with them and that would allow you to stay out later while he visits. That's something I would say to my ex. Whether he wanted to listen is a different matter, but if you don't try then you'll never know.

We have a "first refusal" agreement - if one of us really needs childcare/supervision then we ask the other before we go to anyone else. I get to spend a bit more time with mine thanks to that.

It's usually one night a week, the twice was unusual. I spend the vast majority of my time at home with similar aged kids being mostly surplus to requirements while they amuse themselves. I have just recently started realising I can (after years of not) start giving myself a little time too and going out. They are perfectly happy and safe. That is the key to all this. All kids are different and the op knows her DCs better than anyone else, certainly better than we do. Being self reliant for the normal day to day stuff is not somehow neglectful. We'd all like a support person constantly hovering to do the things we can't be arsed to but at 12 and 14, if circumstances mean that's not possible there is literally nothing wrong with them sorting themselves out and if the op is a full time working sp then I absolutely don't think one evening a week is too much.

I'm not sure why you posted OP? You have aggressively told everyone who queries you that you are not being unreasonable, so why did you ask ?
You say your ex lives with his mum. Would she be happy to help out for a bit whilst things get sorted? For example child support.

And the whole "when do I get to have a life" seems a trifle premature seeing as you only ended your marriage 4 months ago.

And the whole "when do I get to have a life" seems a trifle premature seeing as you only ended your marriage 4 months ago

like I say OP. You’ll never be right and you’ll always be judged. How dare you carry the can for yourself and two children, work full time and ask for a night off whilst your ex does fuck all?!

The day time/ work thing is one thing. But it's too much imo to leave a 12 year old with only a slightly older sibling all day all week AND then late at night. Sounds like they are basically one thier own always. That's not fair on them.

I don't think I'm being aggressive, if I am it isn't intentional. I'm mostly flabbergasted to find out that I'm a terrible, neglectful, selfish person who's children are going to turn into drug addicts and teen parents because I go out on a Wednesday evening.

My main query really, was if they're capable and happy to be alone 8-4 on a weekday, then what is the difference to being happy to be alone 6-midnight on an occasional Saturday?

For the pearl clutchers, no my 12yo does not play GTA.
My 14yo yes

@Nordicrain but it isn't ALL day and ALL night at all. Its either morning before school OR after school depending on the shift and one evening a week til 10. An occasional extra evening til later. They are apparently (unlike my two) good companby for each other and get on well. Like most kids that age they won't spend much time with a parent anyway, even if she was there. Why is it "too much"? What is actaully the problem if they are happy?

I agree with a pp about the idea that we are increasinlgy raising kids who are very unconfident about life decisions. Look at the posts on here from people (presumably adults) who are asking random online strangers whether this or that approach to a really mundane everyday interaction is ok. The OPs kids are learning to sort out the everyday ins and outs without constant reference to mum, or having her run up with their PE kit etc. No-where does the OP say she couldn't or wouldn't be there to deal with anything serious or not have time to listen if her kids needed her. I know mine could do with a bit more of that to be honest.