Who IBU my EX or me - leaving kids alone

[Exhater]

I have a DS14 and DD12, both stay at home regularly on their own whilst I am working all day. Often 8-9 hours.
They get themselves up and go to school, get themselves home. Manage on weekends and school holidays when I'm out of the house all day etc.

I sometimes go out in the evenings and leave them till 10pm, no issue.
Recently I had a bit of a later night out, spoke to the kids and said I would be home by midnight. All fine their end, sent them a takeaway everyone was happy.....or so I thought.

My Ex found out about this and hit the roof. We split in January this year, he currently has so home of his own so cannot take the kids overnight and sees them once every week or so for an afternoon out somewhere.
He doesn't think it's appropriate for me to leave them till midnight as "anything could happen" and "I'm abandoning them"
I'm always in regular text contact with them when I'm out, we have friends up the road for an emergency etc

My argument is that "anything could happen" in daylight hours. Just because it's dark doesn't mean the actual boogeyman is going to come out.

So....AIBU??

Maybe some of us grew up being the child leaving an empty house and coming home to an empty house.

Neither is OP.

Her children aren't toddlers. They can cope with their mum going out without them occasionally.

I think it depends on a lot of things. Do you have home security? Do you know who comings and going? Are you monitoring the Internet usage? How responsible are the kids?

Personally, I think leaving them is fine if they are responsible and you're keeping a mindful eye on things. However, i think 9 hours is too long. I'm not sure if you did a shift and went straight out or not. I think doing an am shift spending a few hours at home and then going out is okay but going straight from work is to long unattended.

I did similar when my DD was 12. She was home all day when school was out and I was at the office. And a couple of Saturdays a month I would leave her in the evenings - she was fine as long as I ordered pizza or Chinese food for her 😂

I wouldn't do anything on a specific night so they can plan parties etc in advance.

Just being around. Being present. That’s how a child feels loved and seen.

I know the OP is struggling to be around because of her current job, hence suggesting the children’s dad comes to hers to be with them until he’s got himself set up with a place of his own.

@Namechange5508 firstly I think you need to check your privilege. You can afford to work part time, not everyone can.
Also what time are your kids home from school? Our get home after us sometimes. They only finish activities and sports at 5:30 earliest (8:30 for league football)

Secondly, making teenagers snacks? What? Parenting means you need to raise independent members of society.

OP only you and your kids know if it’s works or doesn’t. Many judging comments on this thread but also lots of unrealistic parenting that I really don’t agree with (see above)

I’m just saying, since OP asked, that her children need to have their parents around more often.

My solution for her, since her job doesn’t allow her to be home very much for them, is to have their Dad be around with them at hers until he’s got himself set up with a place where can have them at his.

I think that as long as the kids aren't complaining or are scared it sounds like a good balance. It's great for the kids to have some time to themselves too and with your shifts you are sometimes at home when they get in from school etc. Sounds pretty ideal with kids that age in my opinion. I can see why the early posters reacted differently though as when I read the OP I too thought it sounded like you were out all the time pretty much and that you had no quality time with the kids. I don't think that's the case though. Normally when you divirce you have childfree weeks/weekends and since you don't have that you have to work with what you have.

Why hasn't your ex got himself organised by now? If he can't or won't do his fair share, he should not be criticising how you do (more than) yours.

My DD is almost 14 and she babysits for other families who have younger kids (toddlers onwards) so I don't see the issue here.

OP is entitled to a social life. Her ex should also parent his kids, it shouldn't be down to her to do 100% but if it is then she's still entitled to a social life.

I actually think it's lucky... I don't have a social life because I don't have any family to babysit and I'm widowed. I work and I come home. Rinse and repeat.

If you're on shift at work and they need to get up and go to school and get home so they're alone for a couple hours - that's fine.

However, they're unsupervised too much. If its a holiday week and you're out 9am - 5pm every day with a couple of 10pm, then go out for a day at the weekend, they don't have an adult for longer than they have one! Thats not a big deal as a one off, as many said you might employ a 14yo babysitter for the day, but as a regular occurrence it's too much.

Your 14yo is essentially functioning as a full time unpaid nanny. The 14yo is regularly responsible for their sibling over 37 hours a week. That is not on. It is parentification. I get that its hard, you're a single mum. But they need parenting. You have no clue what they could be getting up to when you're out over 12 hours. They need an adult checking in on them.

OP, I think you've actually made it sound 'worse' than it actually is. It sounds like your DC are generally getting themselves ready for school alone but that you're often home by the time they finish school. Which, at their age, is plenty of time for you to be around. It sounds like they're usually home alone for approx. 2.5hrs on a school day?

In terms of going out, you didn't actually specify how often in your OP and some posters have assumed that it is several times a week. Your DC will be fine to be left once a week until 10pm, but even up to midnight on the occasion is fine.

Would it be right to assume that you do take some holiday during the summer holidays etc? It would be sad if they spent the majority of their school holidays alone. It is also a little sad if you work weekends and they spend that time alone too. I would feel too guilty to leave my kids for a night out every week if either of these were the case.

if you can afford an evening out every week why not cut that down and use that money to reduce your hours and maybe have a half day every week to be there for your children more. You are allowed a life but children come first and it seems neither you or your ex are putting the children first.

On the other side of that their dad needs to step up. Can they not go to where he is staying after school/ when he's there even if they can't sleep there? Or he take them for a meal out?

Do your children not have any activities that might be a good option

We tend to get their bags together the night before. But they've learnt not to forget things! I think that's part of the independence of growing up tbh.....but equally I'm always at the end of the phone if they can't find a specific item!

I'm there every evening, I got out once a week on a weekday to a regular thing till 10pm, and would like to go out on a Saturday night till midnight occasionally. Apparently that's a fucking crime.

No dad can't come sit at mine, not only because he refuses to, but because he too works! Like most grown adults

What percentage of their waking life are they left home alone for. Coz I don't think k it should really be more than about 20% to be honest.

I'm there every evening, I got out once a week on a weekday to a regular thing till 10pm, and would like to go out on a Saturday night till midnight occasionally. Apparently that's a fucking crime.

It's not a crime at all - ignore all the PP who are trying to make you feel bad for having a life outside of your teenage children.

One regular weekday night out a week and the occasional Saturday night is absolutely fine.

I would expect her to be present in their lives, I would expect them to be eating together, I would expect them to be cooking/washing up together, I would expect them to be watching tv together, I would expect them to be in the same room for a while every day. I would expect the OP to be talking to them, knowing what sort of day they have had, knowing the ups and downs of their lives, knowing the areas they are enjoying at school and the ones they are struggling with, the friend they are getting on with, any friendship issues, I would expect the OP to be talking to them about relationships, alcohol, drugs, personal safety, mental health, careers etc.

In short, I would expect the OP to be spending time parenting them. I understand work hours being difficult, but I would expect her to be prioritising her children in non work hours. 14 year olds are at the absolute peak of parenting input required.

I would expect the OP to arrange her work hours to spend evening times with them as much as possible and to send all evenings she is not working with them. She says they dont talk to her when she is there, this sounds like a major break down in the relationship is underway, and these children are at risk of educational underachievement, mental health problems associated with emotional neglect, and vulnerable in a number of other ways too.

If a child at school spoke to me about this sort of set up at home I would be reporting it under safeguarding

Also, my 14yo old isn't a nanny. My 12yo is perfectly capable to making food/drinks/leaving the house to go to the park with friends. It's not as though he's wiping her arse, more just around for conversation or to supply a phone charger when she inevitably cannot find hers

If you pay a nanny for that then more fool you

Maybe loosen the apron strings and your kids won’t be so feckless?

You're assuming I don't know all of those things??

Do you have teenagers?

I think leaving them alone until midnight is fine if they are responsible kids and haven't had an issue in the past. But I do think it's wrong to regularly leave them alone all day and all evening. They've recently had to go through parental separation, and it seems like they don't get much quality time with either parent.

Just because they can do their own care tasks now doesn't mean that they don't need caring for in other ways. Who do they go to if they have a problem, or if they have had a bad day at school? It sounds quite a lonely existence for them.

Maybe you could try being more deliberate with creating family time to do things with them - you could always have Sunday dinner together, for example, or have a Friday night movie night? Just so that they know that they are your priority and that you love them.

Shocked that u would think it’s ok to leave them for duch long hours and expect them to fend for themselves, no wonder yr X is annoyed, he’ll probably call SS and report u, yr poor kids.

Everyone knows when you have children you should NEVER EVER enjoy anything for yourselves!

My Ds is 12. This sounds too much to me.
I think being out at work is unavoidable to keep home going. I’d probably invite people over so I was around in the evening.
My Ds has anxiety though and I don’t go out so I’m perhaps not the best judge.