To think boys shouldn’t go in to men’s toilets???

[Scotlandma]

This is hypothetical I seen another post about someone not letting their 9 year old use mens public bathrooms

what age do other people let their children go in to toilets on their own?

and how do you navigate them using the disabled toilets if not?? I’d be so worried in case someone actually disabled needed them

9 years old?? Yes I would send them into the men's.

If they're approaching puberty it's about the dignity for the women.

I honestly don't get the hate for the disabled toilets fair enough if there is someone waiting, but if there is no one there I am going to take my son in to the disabled with me rather than send him into the men's alone. It takes all of 3/4 minutes I don't see the issue. If it is busy or a queue that's obv diff but majority of time it is sitting empty anyway

Disabled facilties in most places are poor and don’t even meet the needs of the people with disabilities.

disabled people have ONE toilet they can access in many places.

many people have disabilities which mean they have urgency issues.

many people with disabilities struggle to even leave the house because of how poor accessibility is

increased footfalls makes them even harder to access and even dirtier.

if your not disabled please don’t use the disabled toilet.

(I know the bad planning has also led to the space being adopted as a baby change so if it’s the only one people have no choice but that doesn’t excuse others taking over it)

Especially not all boys under adult age!

But if you have a young boy and baby/child in pram, sometimes it is not practical to trail them both safely into a normal toilet. And I see somewhere below someone suggested leaving pram and putting baby in sling, you can bet your bottom dollar I wouldn't be waking a sleeping baby to put in sling for the sake of a few minute pee. Again diff if there was clearly someone disabled waiting

Well if I'd waited until he could have stood a chance against any adult male he would have been 13, far too old to be in the women's. He was confident enough to call out or run away at 6, much the same as at 8 or 10.

But why make your issues the problem of disabled people who already have to struggle and fight for everything.

why is the default always “take away the facilties for disabled people” with no consideration for the impact that has on them.

But i struggle to see how it is taking it away when there is 99% of the time no one there, and that 1% (which hasn't actually happened to me personally) only been a minute or two at most. I appreciate that I am privileged in not needing the disabled toilet myself and would never use it to cut a queue etc, but I think for mums/dads with young children/young boys we have to do what is safe too. I will continue to carry on while children are young enough to need my assistance

But it would become a larger problem if all mothers of boys did this.

Strangely it’s only ever people who don’t have to live with disabilities who try to argue that they are always sat empty!

Just one or two minutes for you, just one or two minutes for the next person, and so on. It all adds up. People with disabilities may need to get in there quickly. People who don't have disabilities taking up these spaces, then this potentially removes dignity / urgent provision from those who do need them.

In planning and legal terms disabled toilets are actually
accessible toilets
ie for anyone that needs more space
grab rails etc are added for the disabled as well as turning space for wheelchairs.
But
They are not solely for the use of disabled people, unlike disabled parking spaces for example.
So anyone can use them if they need the extra space or indeed if they are desperate to go and it’s the nearest available toilet.

My dc had an alarm with a pin when they first started journeying to school independently (at age 11).

Maybe something similar would be useful for boys, if parents are afraid they won't be able to listen out well enough or that their child will freeze. Although even taking a mobile phone in on loud speaker or an ear piece might alleviate some of those anxieties.

https://www.personalalarms.com/acatalog/Minder-Screaming-Ladybug-Alarm.html

Disabled toilets are for disabled people, the same as Blue Badge parking and wheelchair space on public transport.

Disabled toilets are for disabled people. Because of the abuse, they are often locked, so only disabled people have access.

No @MobilityCat that is untrue.
Disabled toilets are not the same as dis. parking spaces.

When factoring in toilet provision it is accepted that anyone that needs more space uses the accessible toilet provision.

Perhaps the signage should be changed to ‘ this is a larger toilet if you need it’. As that is exactly what it is.

Where did you get this nonsense from? They're accessible toilets for people with disabilities.

Morally, perhaps. Legally, nope. Not the same as disabled parking spaces.

I’m an architect.
Its a fact.
The equalities act requires provision nothing more.
Anyone can use them.

Many are radar locked because of abuse. The abuse here I usually drug use not women with small children who if anything leave it cleaner than before. If there has been any disabled user who perhaps who not able to clear some mess mums often just do it and leave it better for the next disabled person. As do carers who carry a radar key when not at work.

'If there's a disabled person waiting obviously... '

So we're meant to be thankful that if there is a disabled person waiting for the accessible loos, you won't push in front of them. Gee thanks!

If theres a disabled person waiting, and you queue up behind them and then another disabled person comes along after you, are you stepping out of the queue then?

Not really the issue though - my issue is when I spend ten minutes waiting for the loo, to find its Mum and her toddler and her baby, who does not want the faff of waking up the baby to go to the loo, leaving the pram outside, the floor is now awash with water/wee/whatever and I get a load of either flustered apologies im not interested in as i am desperate or abuse because my face happens to look grumpy (fyi, my face looks grumpy all the bloody time, thats just my face!) and they want to justify themselves by having a go.

Make yourself a sign that says 'not disabled, this is just more convenient, knock and ill come out' and still that on the toilet door each time you use the accessible facilities provided for someone else. And then when they knock, come out, mid piss, pants round ankles or not - not going to happen is it! So really, you are inconveniencing disabled people, to avoid inconvenience yourselves.

Most places are providing ONE accessible toilet, for all. We already have to wait for one another and lots of us have conditions that mean using the toilet can take bloody ages.

If HALF the parents out there think 'well ill only be a minute' in that ONE accessible toilet, can you not see how it becomes a bit of a problem - half the parent population is still a significantly larger number than all of the disabled people!

So @Jonei, just to sum up your views on this thread. Mothers of boys aged 8 upwards should send them into male toilets and manage risk. Doing anything else is pure paranoia, even though some young boys do get assaulted in toilets when alone.

Self contained unisex toilets are an unacceptable alternative for women because there is a risk that a woman could be pushed into one and raped.

I have a couple of questions about this because it doesn't really make sense to me.

How is the risk to women in a self contained toilet real while the risk to boys in male toilets is just paranoia? I'm sure we can find examples of both groups being assaulted.

If risk to boys is easily managed with a personal alarm, would this not also work for women in most places?

Thankfully it’s really none of your business and not your decision to make - so those of us with sons will continue to decide based on our evaluation of risk, what’s appropriate, and how they feel about it themselves - just like mothers have been doing for a long bf time without any issues or anyone’s “dignity” being compromised.

👏🏻 👏🏻 looking forward to the response