To think boys shouldn’t go in to men’s toilets???

[Scotlandma]

This is hypothetical I seen another post about someone not letting their 9 year old use mens public bathrooms

what age do other people let their children go in to toilets on their own?

and how do you navigate them using the disabled toilets if not?? I’d be so worried in case someone actually disabled needed them

How do they know the child is male or female without checking their genitals?!

The vast majority of the time it's pretty easy to tell. Humans have managed to tell the difference for, like, pretty much ever. Without needing to strip search someone. Why would they suddenly have changed and suddenly be unable to tell the difference anymore 🤨

Ignoring risk because of data isn’t really how safeguarding works.

Actually that is exactly how safeguarding risk assessment works. Risks are assessed in an evidence based, data driven way according to both impact and likelihood. Sometimes the impact of something could be extremely severe and the likelihood extremely low, in which case it would be of low concern overall and the mitigation measures deemed necessary would be fairly modest. If the risk and the likelihood were both high, that would be far more concerning.

Seems the crux of this argument is about whether some mothers are prepared to tolerate any level of risk at all towards their sons - for many the answer is no ‘until I decide otherwise’, which seems to be sometime around the son’s 26th birthday.

After all your talk of evidence and data, you seem to have exaggerated quite a bit there 😂

@CellophaneFlower what can I say, my humour is dry.

I actually don’t personally mind boys or transwomen in the women’s bogs, as neither will cause me any harm. But then again I work in war zones, so I have a good grip on what’s actually likely to cause me or others irreparable damage and what’s just disproportionate fear of taking any kind of risk.

It’s the ‘I HAVE A CHILD SO I WILL DECIDE’ attitude that gets me. It’s not very communal, is it. What about others who do mind? Their views matter every bit as much as mine (and yours).

I actually don’t personally mind boys or transwomen in the women’s bogs,

do you mind men in women's bogs?

No I mean transwomen.

Think that says it all@Jonei

Mine used mens toilets whenever out with their Dad, as soon as they'd learned to pee standing up in a toilet (obviously, they can't use urinals until their legs grow). Surely any single mother knows a man she can trust to teach her little boys this skill; to use a private stall in the gents and close the door while they pee in toilet, pants up, flush. Exit to Mum waiting outside the gents door.

What's the difference between transwomen and men though? Apart from possibly, but not always, presentation? The majority of transwomen don't have surgery?

Sorry, I read too quickly and misunderstood. To answer again:

Actually, no, I personally wouldn’t mind men in the women’s bogs (or transwomen, and yes there is a difference).

But before the red mist descends…Just because I personally wouldn’t mind doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do. If you go back to my earlier post, I am actually arguing in favour of a communal approach that considers the views of other women who feel differently to me. And I think the ‘my way or the highway’ mothers of boys should do the same.

Aged 8 and over girls use ladies toilets/changing rooms and boys use the men’s.

@Secondwindplease I like the way you think.

I think that being stabbed is very different from being molested by a pervert when you’re 5 in a public bathroom. Firstly, 5 year olds aren’t getting stabbed by thugs in the streets. Secondly, when at risk of being stabbed, you can 1. Comply and hand over your purse ect… 2. Run 3.fight. . These are all things a young child can’t do when a grown man is forcing them to take their Willy out in a confined cubicle. Being stabbed is also preventable, I’m not saying that it is your fault for being the victim of a stabbing especially if it is completely random, but you can choose not to go out late at night, with valuables on your wrist or in your expensive hand bag. When you are 5, you don’t understand what a pedophile is and so the threat is not as apparent. But preventing the molesting of your 5 year old is easy, just don’t be a lazy fucking git and go into the bathroom with them, it’s really that fucking simple. And if you think that simply escorting your vulnerable child Into the ladies is absurd?! Then your priorities are very wrong, young boys have no sexual interest or desire in women, so taking them into the ladies is no different than taking a girl into the ladies. And if the women have a problem with it then oh well lol🥺

You don't need expensive handbags or valuables on your wrist to get mugged/stabbed. I think you're missing the point somewhat, it's about risk assessment, not the crime itself

This issue is not about dads taking their boys into the mens.
Its about mums taking their boys into the womens when they don’t have a man with them.

See above re the issue. Forgot to tag you

Agree.

The girls will probably/hopefully explain to their mums why they’re being absolutely bloody ridiculous in a few years time.

Someone hit the nail on the head earlier when they said it's the trans issues making this worse.

There are particular posters on this thread where it's clear that's their real issue. To them, it's all about protecting female spaces and they've lost sight of anything else.

The boy mums on here aren't actively seeking to upset young girls or invade their spaces, they're just trying to protect their children from the worst thing imaginable.

I have no idea why it's become so boy v girl. They're all bloody children ffs.

Totally agree. There was a horrible incident in our area too where a boy was assaulted in the male toilets when out with his family for a pub lunch.

"young boys have no sexual interest or desire in women, so taking them into the ladies is no different than taking a girl into the ladies"

And vice versa with young girls and men. Precisely why very small children can go in either room but the adults cannot, the adult could be getting turned on by being in the other loo but in no way is the child.

young boys have no sexual interest or desire in women, so taking them into the ladies is no different than taking a girl into the ladies

5 year olds, sure. 9 year olds? Not necessarily (one in 10 8 year old boys has watched porn, according to the Guardian). As with everything it depends how you’re defining “young” - the majority of posters here are clear that 8 is too young to be in the men’s.

Yes, I agree with this.

I have no idea why it's become so boy v girl.

Bit rich, @CellophaneFlower, given that your comment earlier in the thread that you were prepared for girls to be at risk of assault because the risk to them is lower than to boys. Sounds pretty “versus” to me.

I actually don’t have an issue with transwomen - I’m a lesbian and share spaces with LGBT folks all the time. Never had a single issue. I’m advocating for young girls on this specific issue because their rights are always the ones roughshod over.

I actually have a 10 Yr old and an 11 nearly 12yr old year 5 and 6. They are both far stronger than me and I'm quite strong. I also have a 4yr old. Between 8/9 they become like tweens with testosterone. My 11 Yr old has spots and bump fluff on his upper lip. He's up to my chin and I'm 5 8. There is no way my 10 or 11 year old could come with me now. Also no way my 4yr old could use the mens alone. He will go with his biggest brother or even middle if in a safe ish place. And he will come with me until 7 or 8 when he gets stronger and bigger and confident to go.

Yes all children but a 10 Yr old boy is not like a 7yr old or 4yr old. 10 year old girls may have periods. 11 year old boys have wet dreams!