Made in Chelsea blokes - twins via surrogate

[HermioneKipper]

More “celebs” commissioning a woman’s body to buy a baby.

When is this going to be made illegal 😡

And twins again. So many of them have twins. I think I get a bit triggered by this especially as I have twins and know how dangerous twin pregnancy can be for both mother and babies. And what it does to a woman’s body. No one could consent to this.

Had to switch off Giovanna Fletcher and her simpering podcast when they started talking about “their” miscarriages. Horrific amounts of bleeding, pain and horrendous wrenching emotional pain for you was it mates? No, didn’t think so.

I can predict people born into this situation in two to three decades taking the individuals/organisations/clinics who facilitate this to the court of human rights. I would resent to my life being initiated on the background of a financial transaction and expolitation.

If this MIC couples children's biological mothers eggs are from Brazil there may be unconscious trauma from being denied the opportunity to understand and explore 50 per cent of their biological heritage and link to place of birth. They could also argue that being denied a link in early life course to their mother, their biological links and family and their heritage is emotional abuse as this was based on financial transactions not a decision to safeguard them. People aren't taking a long view of this at all. They just think 'baby' but that baby will have a life and a complex set of signals and thoughts surrounding how they came to be.

I was born to a 15 year old mother who nowadays would be seen to have experienced child sexual exploitation as my father is a good few years older than her. This is something I wrangle with. Being born to an exploited child bothers me. I have felt a level of guilt that I disrupted my mum's development and she was exploited - even though she has been a good Mum and has always made me feel loved, there has been an impact on me that I have subconsciously carried. Your beginnings are very important. People underestimate it.

Fairly sure you can get all this without going "abroad"

You say 'minimal' risks. But you would actually be risking your life to do this, you're risking some decisions about your body being taken away from you, you're risking lifelong physical damage.

Also the emotional and psychological implications are potentially huge. You have no idea how you'd react to 'giving away' the baby you carried or the impact that would have on you for the rest of your life.

I think it's absolutely crackers that the mother of the child is also the grandmother.

@pontipinemum

What a staggeringly dangerous thing for her to have done, both for herself and the baby involved. Including rates of foetal mortality.

What about the fact her son chose a route to becoming a parent that directly places the child in question at greater risk of birth complications and death, due to his mum's age? Is that really a loving thing to do when it comes to creating a baby?

"The risk of pregnancy complications increases as the mother's age increases. Risks associated with childbearing over the age of 50 include an increased incidence of gestational diabetes, hypertension, delivery by caesarean section, miscarriage, preeclampsia, and placenta previa.[3][11] In comparison to mothers between 20 and 29 years of age, mothers over 50 are at almost three times the risk of low birth weight, premature birth, and extremely premature birth; their risk of extremely low birth weight, small size for gestational age, and fetal mortality was almost double.[12]"

Plenty of women do go abroad. Ukraine was a popular destination before the Russian invasion. Donor eggs are in short supply here which is why clinics have egg sharing schemes.

It’s a reversal of what used to happen with teen pregnancies where the girl’s mother pretended the baby was hers and the child grew up not knowing their “sister” was in fact their mother.

Also the emotional and psychological implications are potentially huge. You have no idea how you'd react to 'giving away' the baby you carried or the impact that would have on you for the rest of your life.

Most surrogacy stories in the media are news articles from the parents (with parental responsibility) POV, or documentaries with inspirational background music - also their POV

We rarely hear of when it goes wrong or any difficulties the surrogate mothers have. There must be physical and emotional repercussions, I don't believe it's all sweetness and rainbows. It's weirdly sanitised, at least the western commercial surrogacy market is.

This may or may not be “amazingly selfless” of her, but it is certainly staggeringly selfish of her son and his wife. The risks of a pregnancy as you get older increase hugely. I don’t think risking the health or life of your mother is staggeringly selfless , and that is without factoring in the effect on the child.

And speaking as a daughter in law - well once daughter in law as MIL no longer with us - I’m not sure I’d want to be that beholden to my MIL…….

Calling me stupid haha. That's funny

You'd all hate me. I had a biological son, then adopted a son, donated eggs and also was a surrogate for my brother and his partner (donor eggs and brothers partners sperm).

So if there is some damage to the child then surely surrogacy is wrong?

@SummerLovingDays no I'm not absolutist. I think plenty of things can cause levels of harm to children and babies, but they are resilient and adaptable little things and if the harm can be mitigated then it should be. If it was me, I'd rather be alive via surrogacy than not alive at all. I don't think the harm is so major that it should mean some babies shouldn't be alive at all.

I'm 35 weeks pregnant right now with a natural pregnancy. The baby knows me, my voice, my movements etc and she knows that she is safe with me. Once she is born, she will also learn that she is safe with others. I am not the only thing in the world that this baby will rely on!

Apples and oranges, isn't it? there's a difference between a child being raped and delivering a baby at 13 years old and the grandmother stepping in and raising that child as a person who is more capable...than a grown ass man and woman choosing to and recruiting their mother to carry a baby through choice, putting the older woman's life and health at risk, and causing all the emotional baggage.

Yes I've seen this. I know a lesbian couple this has happened to. It wasn't surrogacy but a sperm doner.
The biological mother has the child and the other mother has slowly pulled away and doesn't see the child ever.

The child now wants to know about her father (she is 12) so all sorts of questions are being asked and emotions felt.

Or you’re just bloody awesome! I’d love to hear about your surrogacy experience if you’re brave enough to do an AMA on here.

What about women who don’t breastfeed or who have to go back to work early?

Agreed.

@Newnamenewname109870 I don't any woman who has to go back to work a day after giving birth.

Rather be alive by surrogacy than not at all? What? Such a silly statement.
Everything about surrogacy is wrong. It only benefits the grown ups and their needs and demands.

That’s exactly how I see it too. And snap, also 35 weeks pregnant!

@SummerLovingDays it's not silly at all - it's the reality of the situation. If these babies were not born via surrogacy, they wouldn't exist.

If life is not a benefit to a person, I don't know what is. Yes surrogacy is driven by the desires of adults, but to suggest there is no benefit of being born/living a life is strange.

If someone told you now that you could erase your life and have never been born, or you could have your life but be born as a result of surrogacy, would you really choose to have never existed at all?

Fwiw I understand the argument that no level of harm is acceptable - I just don't think it's realistic and measuring/identifying harm is much more nuanced. There's documented harm associated with breaking up family units, shouting at a child out of anger etc that doesn't mean that these things are never acceptable or appropriate.

Obviously the issue is much broader than harm to children too when we consider the women that are often surrogates. I just don't see surrogacy as black and white.

You sound like a totally amazing person!

But of course, based on the Mumsnet Groupthink on Surrogacy and Egg Donation you apparently have to buy into when you join the site, you didn't consent to any of it 😂 - when did you realise you'd accidentally donated eggs and had a surrogate baby?

If someone told you now that you could erase your life and have never been born, or you could have your life but be born as a result of surrogacy, would you really choose to have never existed at all?

I can't speak for surrogate children but I'm adopted and because I am pro-choice, I would absolutely have preferred for my birth mother to have had the option to have a termination (due to religion and family pressure this wasn't an option for her at the time) than to have been essentially forced to carry and give birth to me as she was.

Not because I personally think "I wish I had never been born" as an individual, but because I hold compassion for her and her situation.

I was also lucky to be adopted into a loving family but that wasn't a given.