Made in Chelsea blokes - twins via surrogate

[HermioneKipper]

More “celebs” commissioning a woman’s body to buy a baby.

When is this going to be made illegal 😡

And twins again. So many of them have twins. I think I get a bit triggered by this especially as I have twins and know how dangerous twin pregnancy can be for both mother and babies. And what it does to a woman’s body. No one could consent to this.

Had to switch off Giovanna Fletcher and her simpering podcast when they started talking about “their” miscarriages. Horrific amounts of bleeding, pain and horrendous wrenching emotional pain for you was it mates? No, didn’t think so.

Agree.

I was adopted and I was in an incubator for the first 6 months of my life as I was 3 months premature. I didn't have anyone to comfort me during my 4th trimester.

I do know a gay friend who had a baby recently via a surrogate, after the adoption wasn't approved (they actually didn't like what the social worker said about their family setup and took offence to it i think, so decided to end it).

They are excellent parents and provide a wonderful home for their daughter but I wasn't 100% in agreement with their surrogacy. But I also don't think they should be denied the chance to have children just because of their sexuality.

Currently buying one with my ivf 😘

Assisted conception is nothing like commercial surrogacy

@SummerLovingDays you have to acknowledge that there's some damage, it's pretty well documented. I think it can be mitigated to an extent.

You are right. Many people, me included, wouldn’t sell their child for £20k (15k in India, I believe). So then we are are left with the questions;
Is a person free to do absolutely anything on the grounds of ‘choice’?
Is it ok as a society to allow a woman to sell her baby?
How does this fit with the rights of the child?

No, but they might be desperate for the money and see this as an "easy" way to earn lots.

If there was money involved, do you genuinely believe these surrogates would do this out of kindness for a stranger???

You're not though...are you?

Your buying the insemination/fertilising services. Which MAY result in a baby that you will carry and raise.

Not buying someone else's baby

Most people who do it for free are doing it for a very close friend or family member. Personally I found pregnancy and birth totally fine, and I’d be happy to take the (actually very minimal) risks for someone I cared about, for free (aside maybe some expenses covered to give me a little extra time off beyond my employers maternity leave as it’s only 13 weeks and I’d have a c section)

Although it is ethically questionable if it involves going abroad for donor egg IVF in dodgy clinics in countries where poor young women are being targeted as egg donors.

Nobody has a right to have a child. Yes, it's very sad that some men and women who want them are unable to have biological children, but that doesn't mean that their wants should trump the health and wellbeing of other human beings.

I'm against commercial surrogacy, because in the vast majority of cases there is a significant power divide between the surrogate and the purchasing 'parents'. I see it as little different to prostitution in the way that it objectifies women.

I've heard male gay friends talking about 'ordering a baby' in a way that was completely dismissive of what pregnancy and birth actually entails. Pregnancy remains the most significant risk to health/life that most younger women will experience.

It's a different thing if a woman chooses for altruistic reasons to carry a child for friends/family members, with no financial incentive.

Would you really?

Are you aware the complications are likely to be much higher if the egg implanted is not yours?

Do you agree with celebs putting multiple eggs back increasing chances of multiple births?

this is going to make me sound horrible but ive noticed alot of gay couples, when they break up they lose interest in the child they adopted..

I think even truly altruistic surrogacy has major potential for exploitation. Imagine the pressure put on a woman to make her sister/friend/brother’s dream come true. These decisions aren’t made in a vacuum and women are conditioned to be kind, agreeable and put others first.

I have a lovely family member who would do this in an instant for a friend. She is extremely kind and a people-pleaser to a damaging (to herself) degree. She is always seeking the approval of others and is desperate for the good opinion of people around her.

We can only protect all women if this was completely outlawed.

YANBU OP

They shouldn't be implanting two embryos either

I had a baby last summer. One lady in a group I was on was in her 50s was a surrogate for her DS and his wife. It was such an amazing selfless thing to do. The baby is biologically her granddaughter.

*Wow. It really shocks me when I come across such sickening views as yours OP.

I’m so glad I don’t know anyone like you in real life OP*

Re this - I really don’t think support for surrogacy is so universal that it’s unusual to meet someone in real life who disagrees with surrogacy. I know someone who used a surrogate as a single man who simply wanted a child (parenting done 90% by a stream of nannies). Perhaps this is unusual, I don’t know. I suspect most people disagree with what he has done but no one is going to come out and say it, especially as a lot of people I know know him through work and surely it would be a disciplinary offence to say something so confrontational. People just don’t say anything.

I also disagree that gay men are being discriminated against (other than by biology). A heterosexual couple that meets later in life are “discriminated” against in the same way. It’s not discrimination, it’s just biology. I know a lesbian couple who had a child via a sperm donor - yes they managed to have a child, but the child is only biologically related to one of them and it’s impossible to produce a child related to both partners - this isn’t discrimination, it’s just life.

@pontipinemum

What a staggeringly dangerous thing for her to have done, both for herself and the baby involved. Including rates of foetal mortality.

The risk of pregnancy complications increases as the mother's age increases. Risks associated with childbearing over the age of 50 include an increased incidence of gestational diabetes, hypertension, delivery by caesarean section, miscarriage, preeclampsia, and placenta previa.[3][11] In comparison to mothers between 20 and 29 years of age, mothers over 50 are at almost three times the risk of low birth weight, premature birth, and extremely premature birth; their risk of extremely low birth weight, small size for gestational age, and fetal mortality was almost double.[12]

And it’s unbelievably selfish of her DS to accept this risk to his mother in her 50s.

I find commercial surrogacy abhorrent and de-humanising. As previous posters have said, you'll never find a rich women opting to be a surrogate, which speaks volumes to me.

What makes me most uncomfortable about commercial surrogacy is that the rights of the baby are right at the bottom of the pile, it's just a commodity to be bought.

A mother having a baby for her daughter can’t be said to be truly altruistic as she is getting a grandchild out of it.

All surrogacy and egg and sperm donors should be banned. None of it is about the child. It’s just about selfish adults with entitled attitudes.

And staggeringly selfish of her son, frankly.

@TinaYouFatLard we will have to disagree on that so. I think she offered something unbelievable and he accepted.

@KimberleyClark true she got a grandchild from it. But in fairness how much in this world is ever 100% altruistic? I gave money when the earthquake hit in Turkey because I wanted to help but also because I felt awful there was nothing I could do for those people in real terms so threw money at it. It made me feel like I was able to do something, which made me feel better and less guilty. So it was not truly altruistic.
I see giving blood is quoted as an act of altruism, I give blood, yes I do mostly want to help people, but I also think well some day the person who needs it might be someone I love or me. So again there is a selfish undertone there.

Is anything ever truly altruistic though? We do kind things for loved ones because it makes us feel good and because we like to see those people happy (and it makes us happy)…. Whether that means it’s ever the right thing to do is debatable though even if it’s making all the adults in the scenario feel happy.

Re the grandmother, there's nothing wrong with her motivations. It's still altruistic surrogacy and it's great that the baby status within the birth family unlike commercial surrogacy.

However, having a baby in your 50s is wild. Not even just turned 50, but in your fifties 😮