To be so disappointed that DD has tanked her A Levels?

[Minfilia]

DD18 has always been a bright kid, but completely fails to apply herself.

She has anxiety which has ended up with school avoidance - so I changed my working hours so I could drop her for the lessons she had and she could come home for free periods as she said that would help.

She then still found it too much and dropped one of her subjects with the promise she would do better in the others.

Yet she’s dropped from B to D grades in both and now school want her to take the lower AS level courses. So she will come away with 2 lesser qualifications and may not even do well in those.

She also has zero plans for post school (which finishes in weeks!) - no desire to work and no desire to go to uni.

Anyone else in a similar boat? I have no idea what to do to motivate her as she just seems to want to sit around and do nothing!!

I've tried to write a detailed and informative response a few times but I just can't find the words.

I was your daughter when I was 17. Please, please be kind to her. She doesn't need to hear about her wasted potential or talk about her plans or already know how she's going to fix the fact that she couldn't do as she had planned. She is unwell. Your support and understanding will mean everything.

I work in HE. Some of the best and brightest students I’ve worked with are those who took alternate routes, often coming later to uni. Sounds like your girl just needs some space and time. Try not to worry too much.

@Gruf

True. School just simply isn’t right for some young people. I gave up and didn’t pass my GCSEs despite being bright. Left school and went straight into an entry level admin role at a solicitors office and the rest is history. Thrived out of school, did well at work and topped up my learning with an OU degree that was done very much on my terms.

I completely stuffed my A levels, got offered a place to read Physics with a requirement of two E's, much preferred the university life and climbed back out of the mire. Ended up with a BSc in Physics and a masters in Electrical Engineering, which has been my career and passion for 20+ years.

Unis these days aren't quite so generous to flunkees like me, but remember uni isn't for everyone, depending on what she wants to do there is college, apprenticeships and work, with support (not undue pressure, even when well mentioned) she will find her groove.

Success isn't measured in certificates or huge salaries, being self sufficient whilst enjoying (insofar as possible) what you end up doing is the true measure of success.

If she went to therapy, did they suggest OCD at all? It often goes I noticed and there are many different types. It’s an anxiety disorder, that typically gets worse over time and one of the compulsions experienced is avoidance.

Charming. So her parents supported her to the best of their abilities.

And now she blames them.

Strong genetic link with autism so she might be. You've written some signs already in your posts.

I didn't do great in my A levels, got BDE. I was working in a pet shop at the time and thought I'd be happy doing that for the rest of my life. I took a gap year and spent it partly dossing around with my ex boyfriend but also working. After a year I went to an ex poly uni and got a 2:2.

It took some time but I have a good career now, which I enjoy, in quite a niche area - I moved jobs this year and got 2 job offers so was able to negotiate hours that fit in with my children.

Looking back I think I had become disillusioned with academia and the schooling system. I was exhausted tbh. I felt pressure to be a "high flyer" when that was never meant to be my path. I probably should have made better decisions and applied myself more but I think I've done OK.

Thanks everyone. Certainly a lot to think about.

It might be worth getting an assessment for her. I’m just not sure how to go about it - firstly because DD will probably be offended if I bring it up and will think I think there’s something “wrong” with her so that’s not going to be an easy subject to face.

And secondly because I feel like going to the GP and asking for an assessment for “something” based on fairly woolly symptoms might not get her the desired result either.

I suppose it’s been off my radar because my understanding is that autism/ADHD symptoms are present from young childhood - and she never had developmental issues, or social problems - she had a wide group of friends until recently. There’s no hyper activity or missing social cues, talking over people etc.

She does hyper focus on hobbies though. And interestingly, reading one of the links that was posted, dresses like the article mentioned - hoodies, baggy trousers etc.

I also understand though that an assessment can take years - which isn’t helpful to her right now!

My DC did the same. Failed the lot. Spent a year working for in a DIY shop and then a record shop (hence his amazing collection of vinyl!), then went to the local college are re-did them. Years later DC is now an MA from a Russel Group univ.

Taught me that for some people (and yr DD may be one) A-Levels should be taken when you are ready for them, not just automatically at the end of your school life.

+It might be worth getting an assessment for her. I’m just not sure how to go about it - firstly because DD will probably be offended if I bring it up and will think I think there’s something “wrong” with her so that’s not going to be an easy subject to face+

My Dd refused too initially. We rarely fight, but we had lots of fights about that. In the end l offered to pay her if she’d have it done. Worked like a charm.

And now she is so thankful that l insisted.

Your DD is - in my opinion - another child to fall victim to the awful effects of the Covid lockdowns.

I think - rather than looking at the traditional Mumsnet diagnosis of ASD - she's suffering from depression. I know she's already on some form of medication but talk therapy is more likely to help her.

She needs the A level pressure gone - as other PP have said, she can go back to education when she's ready for it.

There’s no hyper activity or missing social cues, talking over people etc.

Hyperactivity doesn’t have to be physical, it could include racing thoughts, which your daughter has. An autistic female with ADHD will most likely present their hyperactivity and impulsivity in subtle ways e.g going to the toilet a lot during school or subtly moving their foot around, they might binge eat …Your daughter is also avoiding school, which does suggest social issues. It is common with ADHD to suffer rejection sensitivity dysphoria.

There are many screener questionnaires for autism and ADHD that your daughter could fill it to take along to the GP. If you look at other threads relating to assessment the names of these questionnaires will be there. If you have an assessment via the Right to Choose pathway in a couple of months your daughter could be taking the medication she needs to improve her MH and productivity. I take Atomoxetaine as stimulants make me anxious.

it might help to show your daughter the stories of high achievers who have been diagnosed with ADHD and how medication has transformed their lives

“Hyperactivity doesn’t have to be physical, it could include racing thoughts, which your daughter has. An autistic female with ADHD will most likely present their hyperactivity and impulsivity in subtle ways e.g going to the toilet a lot during school or subtly moving their foot around, they might binge eat..”

Another one often seen in girls with ADHD is daydreaming or doodling.

My daughter has recently left year 12. She hated school, was anxious there. They wouldn’t let her drop a subject but we said she didn’t have to go to it. Anyway she left and now has a part time job, hopefully going to college in September but it’s been a hard time. Yours sounds harder so I empathise.

I try and remember that hormones make them like this but it’s so hard. I hope she comes out of it soon.

Is she at a school sixth form or at college? If the former, would she benefit from doing a completely different, 1 year course (BTEC or similar) in a college environment next year? As PPs have said, you get three years of FE for free so it's a shame not to use it!

I can relate to this - did very well in school until A-levels when I tanked. Changed one of my subjects part way through, then wanted to change another but wasn’t allowed. I also wore hoodies and baggy jeans! Definitely had sky-high anxiety and avoidance though it wasn’t diagnosed at the time.

Also, yep, neurodivergent - ASD/ADHD. For ADHD, there’s inattentive (daydreamer), hyperactive (disruptive natterer) or combined types (I’m the latter!).

After crashing out of my first uni after a first year in humanities that I didn’t really attend, I bummed around for a few years (luckily I always liked my independence and having money in my pocket so was more than motivated to work, though hospitality was all I really wanted to do - I tried office work but lost my job after nine months or so, whereas I can serve coffee and beer until the cows come home!).

I attended a second uni for a STEM subject in my early twenties, got a 2:1 and started a PhD before, yep, you guessed it, I crashed out again.

A few more years bumming around moving from minimum-wage job to minimum-wage job then, late twenties, slowly started getting my life together. Built a successful career, in the most haphazard way. Been with my hubby for twelve years. Have a house, two cats and even a mortgage.

Schooling up to GCSE’s is straightforward. You can hyperfocus, cram, and get great grades. A-levels require a different way of working - much more continuous application. STEM subjects at uni are more like GCSE’s - short, intense bursts are fine to see you through. Humanities subjects far more like A-levels. PhD’s are like the longest piece of coursework ever…definitely not suited to me!

I also become negative and paralysed in times of change. When I’m uncertain about the future, I freeze. That is absolutely not helpful. The future seems so big and so complex that my ADHD brain that can barely get me through a shower in the right order some days just cuts out. I procrastinate, avoid and lose interest in everything. I gain weight, stop looking after myself and barely leave the house.

This is absolutely a symptom of ADHD. I can’t just kick my arse and tell myself to get out there. I’m perfectly capable of doing amazing things - I’ve run 200 mile marathons and written books that have been published - but sometimes, everything switches off.

Someone once described it like the staircase vs the wall. Neurotypical peeps get the motivation to get jobs done by climbing steps. They understand the order things need to go in to get from A to B and each move requires a bit of motivation like a small step up. ADHD folk haven’t a clue so for us, it’s like scrambling over a high wall - we do all the things all at once, in one big concerted effort. But the wall is high and scary so we just kinda look at it for ages, building up the mental energy to pull ourselves over.

Not saying your daughter has ADHD, but the indicators are all there in your post and it’s not a bad thing. It’s AMAZING! Like, most NT’s don’t run 200 miles in one go or become the first female to eat a 2.5kg chocolate eclair in under two hours. But it comes with special coping mechanisms.

If she’s completely disengaged from her studies, then you’re going to have a hard time getting her to achieve anything now, no matter what. And that is going to hellishly hit her confidence as well. The only thing I can suggest is small, bitesize actions. Don’t ask her what she’s going to do when school is over - ask her what she can focus on in the next week. Don’t ask her what her career goals are, talk to her about her interests and let her make the mental connections. Don’t tell her to get a job, ask her if she wouldn’t like some extra money to go out with.

At the moment, the pressure she might be feeling to not fuck up entirely while terrified that she is actually fucking everything up entirely, could be paralysing her. If that was me, I’d need reminding of what I do love. And finding myself and my motivation again in that (even if it’s volunteering at a cat shelter or tinkering with beehives). That’s how I reconnect when I’ve lost myself in the ADHD paralysis.

And yeah, wander through TikTok and see if any of the ADHD videos chime. It would be interesting to

Hee anxiety medication could be causing her to lack motivation. She is mentally unwell. That’s why anxiety is. It’s a mental illness and hers is so severe she needs medicated. Don’t be disappointed but understand she’s unwell. It’s no different to a broken leg.

Well yes, anxiety is awful but not facing it makes it worse. Unfortunately, OP’s DD declined a talking therapy. This would have given her tools to manage in the world. It is often uncomfortable to go work through the therapy but it can be very helpful if the person can make use of it. Allowing the situation to continue as is will not do much to help, sadly. It can quickly become entrenched. It’s all very difficult and painful for all concerned.

I think this is a really good question, what do you do as a family that makes her feel happy?
Not what do you do for her to help make her better. These things all show you’re putting the effort in and actively trying to help her, with some great ideas.
But when I was very low, I had a sixth sense for any time someone was doing something to ‘cheer me up’, and it felt fake and that they were watching me expecting tangible results of me ‘being happier’ after going for a walk. Which just made me feel worse because I was failing at giving them what they wanted.
I’d suggest something that happens every week where you just delight in her company. Not that you’re specifically getting her out for her mental health, but maybe going out to dinner as a family, or a games night at home, or even just watching something on the tv together.
Also, maybe talk to her and ask what she is worrying about, not with the idea that you’ll fix it for her, just that you want to know about the way she thinks. Don’t say ‘don’t be silly, that’s ridiculous’ (like my mum did!) or similar, she may be extra sensitive and that isn’t silly to her - and being too sensitive isn’t a bad thing, it’s the opposite of insensitive 😊
You clearly care that you’re making all this effort for her, I’m sure that’s coming through to her.

I can imagine how you must feel but it's not terrible at all.

Suggest it may be helpful to find the stressor, whether it's the pressure of exams, meeting expectations, the style of course, hating school or something/one at school, univ choices, social group, feeling overwhelmed generally, or something closer to home or even something personal. Could be anything.

Once you have this, you have something to support her with.

What does 'tanked' mean?

@Hueandcry. Good question. I don’t know either but I gather it’s not good to have tanked.

Absolutely, totally, completely agree with this. She simply doesn't have the option to do nothing, and indulging it will make the anxiety worse. Good luck xx

Don't stress it. It sounds like her mental health is shot.
Don't ride her about not doing well, as this will make her mental health worse. What about seeing if there is a apprenticeship she might like, instead of university. Not everyone is cut out for university. She needs to get on top of her anxiety, plus probably depression. As a female, you get all the hormone crap, thrown in with pressure to well in your exams, then trying to figure out what the hell is going on with your body to boot. It sounds like your dd has found her breaking point, or really close to it, don't push her over the edge, help her to get her feet back on the ground. There is nothing wrong, with her getting a job for a bit, till she figures stuff out. Then if she wants to she can do her A-levels again. I didn't know what I wanted to do at her age, so cut her some slack.

Lots of comments about her being ill. Surely anxiety is akin to a chronic illness if you're going to compare it to a physical illness. Unless chronic illness is debilitating, you just have to work with it and do what you can, when you can. It can't be used as an excuse all the time, because not every day is the same.