To be so disappointed that DD has tanked her A Levels?

[Minfilia]

DD18 has always been a bright kid, but completely fails to apply herself.

She has anxiety which has ended up with school avoidance - so I changed my working hours so I could drop her for the lessons she had and she could come home for free periods as she said that would help.

She then still found it too much and dropped one of her subjects with the promise she would do better in the others.

Yet she’s dropped from B to D grades in both and now school want her to take the lower AS level courses. So she will come away with 2 lesser qualifications and may not even do well in those.

She also has zero plans for post school (which finishes in weeks!) - no desire to work and no desire to go to uni.

Anyone else in a similar boat? I have no idea what to do to motivate her as she just seems to want to sit around and do nothing!!

Hm tricky situation, but also full of opprtunty. Please be aware of smotherong her, please trust her.

Make a plan with her maybe eg 1 month space/chill/heal, 3-6 months job,, followed by 2 months travel/fun away from home, revisit decisions after 6 months in terms of resits or whatever, , make a life plan at 8 months etc.
I get this is not in time order but hope you get the gist.
I tanked my a levels and still insisted on doing my year out, which turned in to 2, where I did another a level and was able to do uni after all.

Anxiety
School avoidance
No social life
Prefers online life/ friends
Your brother has ASd and it has a genetic component.
Seems to be suffering from burnout

How many more signals do you need? You’re letting her down saying she’s definitely not ASd. It seems clearly that she is

Also, refusing to engage with doctors/ medical/ therapy is another symptom. Hierarchical mutism.

Another classic sign.

She isn’t refusing to engage. She can’t engage. Very different. And the service should have found a way to communicate with her. Text bar on a zoom is very helpful.

I'd get her medication checked - perhaps it's making her lethargic or affecting her mood. Please don't be disappointed in her - one of my DS went to Uni dropped out after.3 years with nothing apart from the debt. But honestly I am pleased he's found a job he likes and can work at and is doing well after.some hard times. She'll come good!!

So apart from a close family history of it, chronic and severe anxiety, being overwhelmed with school and underperforming, inability to visualise the future, isolation from peers, withdrawal from family activities and deliberate avoidance of therapy - how are you so sure that she doesn't have ASD?

It could help to explain why her behaviour seems so baffling. She sounds overwhelmed and confused.

Find out if its actually worth her sitting the exams. It might not be. If she gets a low level, level 3 qualification, you or she will probably have to pay full whack if she wants to do another course in the future. So fact check that with a local college.

I don’t know how to say this - but you are describing a child who sounds as if she is autistic and I’m not sure why you don’t want to see this and are looking at it as mental health without wanting to get to the root cause.

Your DD is highly unlikely to be the same as your brother. They are different people and different genders and ages.

Do your DD a favour and really learn about autism in girls and do so with an open mind,

I'm wondering if your DD totally knows you're there to support her, irrespective of whether she meets your hopes and aspirations...even if she can't articulate what she wants or needs at the moment.
The last few years have been challenging in so many ways, I guess I mean existential threat.
In some /all of Scotland there's an online theme on social media called #NoWrongPath which has popped up around results time for the last few years - maybe the messages apply at any time.

Yes, you need to look after her and support her. She is clearly ND. How many more signs do you need?

I also think there is a potential here for her to be autistic, burnout is very common in autistic girls and women because masking is so exhausting.

I went through a massive burnout when I was 18-20, nosedived from being "very bright" and "on course to succeed with ease" to being an unemployed drop-out because I couldn't overcome the sense of overwhelm I felt. It wasn't a case of pulling myself together and no amount of tough love made any difference, I literally could not summon up a single fuck to give because I was over it all, I was done. What helped was time to let it all pass me by, I slowly started giving a fuck again as the overwhelm eased, I went back to education, got my qualifications but it took time.

There is an excellent checklist here about autism in girls that is worth looking at to see how much of it applies to your DD.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.staffordshire.gov.uk/Education/Access-to-learning/Graduated-response-toolkit/School-toolkit/Communication-and-interaction/Social-communication-autism/SEN-support-in-school/Autism-in-Girls-checklist.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi1jPX5wsD-AhX_QkEAHT7BBEAQFnoECAkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw25NqIj09E5EWibvLN_l8zs

I was once in your daughters shoes. I flunked out of sixth form despite previously being an ‘A’ student and got a job in a shop. I never went back to education but did a string of rubbish jobs until I found something I liked and was good at. I’m now in my mid thirties and a totally normal person with a good job, a house and a family. Don’t despair for your daughter. We all make our own way in life. A job might give her some purpose and stabilise her mental health enough to consider going back to education at some point

For anyone wary of clicking on links, these are screenshots of the checklist I linked to.

I remember being 18 and felt the immense pressure from everyone that what happened during those bloody exams would define how successful you are. It was awful and it was all about not disappointing others.

She is 18 and still very young. She needs to do something after a levels, but I would make sure she knows that you're happy for her to get any job while she grows up a bit and not everything at this age needs to be part of a big career plan.

From the perspective of an adult who had similar issues. Trauma from my childhood resulted in depression and anxiety that lead me to leaving school early.

I’m in my mid 20s now, been to college twice (for two different qualifications), have a fancy brand new car and a full time, well paying job in HR Recruitment

What lead me here? Parents who got me all the support I needed through medication, talk therapy and the biggest one, patience.

It sounds like your DD is suffering from anxiety and depression, both of which get worse due to the pressure of exams and things changing. She’s probably facing the reality that her childhood is soon to be over and most of her friends will be leaving.

Give her a handhold, take her out for a drive and actually ask her what’s scaring her so much. What can you do together to help her?

If she likes animals, volunteering or a part time job can help her.

if she wants to go to college, forget UNI and go to an adult education center - exact same qualifications but offered in part time or night time courses, much easier on anxious people

There’s a million and one different ways for her to create a future for herself, she just needs to do a bit of digging, and will need your help to do it

I’d be more worried than disappointed. Please don’t let her know how you feel, if it is disappointment. Try staying positive and encourage whatever interests she does have, eg could she do some volunteering as low commitment but could give her motivation and meet others

My DH didn’t even get AS levels, he has a very good well paid job now, with lots of travel and progression, and no student debt unlike me!

Also, pressurising her to get a job won’t help. I think the last thing she needs is talking to more people. She needs to regress and his until she’s recovered. This is autistic burnout. Voluntary work maybe OK.

You may be able to get PIP for her.

I also want to say don't discount ASD, women and girls can present completely differently to men and are often very good at masking (to their detriment in many cases).

You say you’re not creating pressure, but you’re giving her an undetermined ultimatum. Saying this suggests there’s going to be trouble if she doesn’t choose one.

I understand the frustration, but my parents never said something like this to me. And if they had, I would have dug my heels in further because that’s what anxiety does, it keeps you stuck, and sometimes being stuck is safer than making yourself unstuck.

You need to talk to her and tell her you’re not expecting her to just up and feel better, but that you want to help her find options that work with her. It might take 2 or 3 attempts to find the right fit (I quit my first job after school within a week because it wasn’t right - my parents accepted it and helped me find the next opportunity).

I would suggest you need a plan - small steps that you stick to and don't fold when your daughter says 'no'. I think she needs a routine before you work on a job - simple things like building in exercise - walking the dog. I would stop smothering her and start saying 'no' a bit more often to non-essentials. People on MN are quick to diagnose - she's been offered therapy and refused. I wouldn't rush into anything else but step by step get her to take a bit more responsibility for herself.

I do think autism is something to look into in these types of cases but…

I can’t work in customer service roles because it’s too “people-y”, and I would come home anxious and exhausted. I’m not autistic, I just have an anxiety disorder and really bad self esteem. So it’s not necessarily autistic burnout (but of course it’s not NOT autistic burnout - just don’t want to jump to an assumption)

Sorry if my last post sounded harsh OP. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was an adult (was treated as mental health problem through teens and 20s). Even with my one experience though, I failed to notice that one of my own DD’s is autistic. I actually brushed it away when first mentioned! Now I do know, it’s actually really obvious, maybe I didn’t want to see it and to acknowledge the severity of her difficulties.

This is really worth a watch if you want to see what autistic girls and women look like, I think you will see them presenting very differently to your brother:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001k31t/christine-mcguinness-unmasking-my-autism

My daughter who passed her 11 plus developed anxiety as a teen and it turned out she was masking inattentive ADHD and she also has PoTS.
These are both very under diagnosed problems mainly with girls. Inattentive ADHD is a busy mind rather than a busy body and PoTS is where during puberty (mostly girls but can be boys) autonomic nervous system fails to develop properly (it does eventually catch up) and the child experiences dips in blood flow to their heart and brain which is balanced by their body releasing adrenaline to increase blood flow...but also triggers flight or fight systems and the child is constantly in high alert. You can tell if someone has PoTs by taking their heart rate when they are lying down and first wake up in the morning and then getting them to stand unaided for 3-4 minutes and taking it again - if their heart rate goes up more than 30 beats a minute (say for example from 90 at resting to 120 standing) than please speak to the GP about possible PoTS.
Please also google inattentive ADHD as symptoms include anxiety and under performing in school.
But honestly....not doing well in her A levels does not mean your daughter's life is doomed. We are looking at alternative career paths for our daughter - ones that don't include University because despite being mentally capable she might not be emotionally ready. We want her to think she has options - having been to university myself I did assume my children would go but I have had to make sure I don't present uni as the holy grail because it is not.

People on MN are quick to diagnose - she's been offered therapy and refused

Maybe because we have ASD daughters showing the same things? It’s more like she was unable to engage than refused. Although it comes across as refusal. She’s being let down by the people who should be helping her.

I mean this in the nicest possible way but I suggest you invest in some longer term therapy for yourself. There is every chance that your anxiety is creating a dynamic that is hard for her to get out of. Personally I would not go down the diagnosis route but it is literally everywhere at the moment so you'll get pressure to do so, as you are on this thread.