Diane Abbott

[Flowerly]

To say that Diane Abbott is doing her best to help the Labour Party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

Hideous antisemitism seemingly not gone away at all and add that to the horrendous misogyny in the Labour Party I wonder at this point why ANYONE would vote for them.

AIBU?

My post was aimed at the flippancy of Wonnle's quip about religion being total bollocks.

And yes, he did. That's why many feel the need to hammer home that being Jewish isn't just measured by the religious aspect and it's all about the blood line.

Haven’t read the full thread but my 2 cents is;

1. Her comments are offensive and completely staggering, considering the position of power she holds. This is obvious and goes without saying.
2. I’m also so annoyed. I had just wrapped my head around the fact that I was going to have to vote Labour next time (not voting Tory because they hate teachers, have voted Green 3 times but it feels like a wasted vote) and now this. She’s making it so hard to vote Labour.

Oh boy, where to begin?

How about his sponsorship in the 1980s of a group called the ‘Labour Movement Campaign for Palestine’. This fact is illuminating and horrifying because this group proclaimed in their materials from 1984 that it sought nothing less than “to eradicate Zionism.” That means the destruction of Israel, a country of 9 million Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs. Antisemitism manifests itself, in part, by denying to Jews their collective right to self-determination under international law. That is why the views of this particular group (that Corbyn championed) is an example within the IHRA definition. So for years, he was active in an organization that, just like Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran, proclaimed the goal of ending Israel.

He aligns himself with organisations that promote a biased and simplistic approach to the complex Israeli-Palestinian conflict (e.g. BDS), and present this dispute over territorial and nationalist claims as the fault of only one party – Israel. Israelis want to make peace with the Palestinians. The harsh rhetoric of Corbyn and his associates ignores the support of the Israeli public for a two-state solution and past efforts of the Israeli government to promote negotiations and improve the situation on the ground for Palestinians, and overlooks the Palestinian’s leaderships intransigence and violence. Efforts to delegitimize, punish or isolate Israel (basically Corbyn’s life’s work) undermine this commitment. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is complex. Holding Israel alone accountable for the conflict, as Corbyn consistently does, is inaccurate and unhelpful. The conflict over land and security can only be resolved at the negotiating table and through a two-state solution and both sides will be required to make difficult decisions and concessions. Corbyn’s approach to this issue by endlessly criticising Israel - all the while saying far less about the many other countries which have far worse human rights records - is not helping the Palestinian cause, quite the opposite. It harms it.

The event that places Corbyn well beyond the pale took place in October 2014. He went to Tunisia to attend a one-day conference attended by Palestinian groups, including representatives of known terrorist groups and left a wreath at the grave of a known terrorist (see photographic evidence proving this to be the case). Although Corbyn claimed it was a conference to "further the peace process", the title of the conference was "International Conference on Monitoring the Palestinian Political and Legal Situation in the Light of Israeli Aggression" (he is economical with the truth, basically).

Then there was the time he appeared on Iran State sponsored TV Channel, Press TV (and was paid 18K to do so) and when asked about a terrorist attack on the Egyptian border during Ramadan that had killed Egyptian troops replied "I see the hand of Israel." A British MP, peddling conspiracy theories on matters in the Middle East is not a good look).

In 2007, Raed Salah was jailed for 'blood libel' (racial incitement). Later in 2012, Corbyn referred to him as a "very honoured citizen" whose "voice must be heard".

When Corbyn spoke at a Palestine Solidarity Campaign meeting in 2008 he waited on stage for a speaker, Ismail Patel, to finish his speech. The speaker indulged in an attack on "Zionism" saying it made Jews "immoral in justice". Mr Corbyn didn't leave the stage and not be associated with this antisemitic rant, instead, as he passed Mr Patel, he patted his arm in a "Well done!" gesture (there’s video footage of this).

There are many, many more examples of Corbyn’s blatant antisemitism, but here are some of the most egregious ones. Is it any wonder then that as soon as he became leader of the party there was an influx of new members - holocaust deniers and holocaust minimisers - that, for some reason or another, now felt very at home in a social Democratic Party under his leadership?

He’s a hateful person.

Simon Sebag Montefiore posted the following on https://twitter.com/simonmontefiore/status/1650139836605427713 Twitter in response to Diane Abbott's letter and apology -

Those who erase history should know: it doesnt help anti-racism to erase the facts of historic crimes nor to impose hierarchies of race & suffering that promote one victim by denying another. That devalues all antiracism. The rule is: everyone must count.

There are no ‘shades of grey’ allowed anymore. Either you say something is the WORST EVER or you’re ‘minimising’ it.

To me, black people are universally treated in the most racist way. Look at here - Stephen Lawrence, Anthony Walker, institutionally racist police who strip search black children at the drop of a hat, the way Diane is spoken to and hounded online. Look at USA - young black men being shot regularly for no reason at all. Look at how black people are viewed in parts of Asia.

That isn’t to say other groups, faiths, sexualities and whatever aren’t treated badly and subject to bigotry and prejudice.

You see it on here all the time. There’s no room for discussion or perspective any more, either you agree that every micro aggression, every slight, every clumsy comment is HORRIFIC or you’re a closet racist/homophobe/misogynist.

I feel very sorry for Diane who has spent her life fighting racism and prejudice but is going to be cancelled because she simply said unless the prejudice is aimed at a race (aka not Jewish people - according to Jewish authorities!) then it isn’t ‘racism’. I see no issue with that, and nobody has made a convincing argument otherwise.

In addition to the above, a huge issue with Corbyn is his silence on antisemitism itself. Sometimes, it's not about saying something antisemitic or even the wrong thing, it's about saying nothing at all.

There is plenty of room for discussion and nuance however you cannot compare what is happening in the US to what happens in the UK our issues of race are different enough to not be comparable.

It's all still racism though.

I also find it really distasteful and downright nasty to blame her for her son’s actions. No mother is responsible for the actions of their adult child, but her son is also severely mentally unwell. Goes completely against the mumsnet way - unless Diane Abbott of course. Ditto drinking a can of G&T on her commute, does anyone really give a shit? Such a minor offence in the scheme of things.

She is a daft racist.

The word 'racism' is incorrect. You hate the following groups and constantly denigrate them.

You hate Americans/ Europeans/ Foreigners in general/ Anyone who does not belong to your country = Xenophobic

You hate anyone who is gay = Homophobic

You hate women and the idea of their advancement/equality = Misogynistic

Rwandan genocide/ Discrimination of a different tribe to your own = Tribalism

Discrimination against people with red hair = Gingerism

Discrimination against people who practice muslim religion = Islamophobia

Discrimination against people who are jewish = Anti-semitic

Some people will fall in the categorises above while being people of colour. Some won't. No, racism is not the same.

"they experienced something similar to racism.............but it's not the same"

I think I get her point.

You’ve proved my point nicely - just emotive language and smears, no explanation.

She is a high profile public servant, she is l, as a result, held to a higher regard than any mumsnetter is. If she is not able to carry out her duties due to issues in her personal life then perhaps stepping down needs to be considered, it's what everyone else does.

Not smears, just a fact. Go Google the things she has said about white people, I can't be bothered to list it.

She took more flack than certain people in parliament bringing in a suitcase full of booze !

Actually, when refugees from Germany and central Europe arrived in Britain in the 30s, apparently the Jewish communities in Britain were quite taken aback by their un-Jewishness. In many cases, they weren't observant and in some cases even observed other religions (like catholicism). But they were still Jews. The Nazis didn't care how observant they were or weren't.

I'm surprised so many don't seem to get that being a Jew and being Jewish aren't the same thing. You can be non-Jewish and still be a Jew, and likewise you can be Jewish without being a Jew.

For example, Ed Miliband = a Jew. Jacqueline du Pré = Jewish. Daniel Barenboim = both.

So many people have been waiting for a moment like this. Diane has bought out solidarity among people who didn't realise until today they were vehemently anti-racist in all its forms. A spectacle to behold. Prominent Black women on the left are treated with such disdain it truly beggars belief.

@DojaPhat yeah or just being held to account for abhorrent views.

Diane needs a history lesson, like a lot of apologists on this thread do it appears…

What history lesson? Nobody is denying the Holocaust or the appalling way Jews have been treated over the years. The point of contention is whether it is racism or something else, and given even Jewish authorities say Jewish is not a race, why is it so controversial to think it isn’t?

Islamophobia isn’t racist either, it can be experienced by people of any ethnicity who are Muslim. Generally speaking of course that will be people with a Middle Eastern/South Asian background, but thats correlation rather than causation.

We know from the Bible and can see their old structure of the Temple, that the Jews were in Israel long ago.

What were modern day Palestinians named in the Bible?

I think some people are obviously able to pass so don’t attract the attention of nutters so easily etc but as a brown woman the idea that those groups don’t experience racism but are experiencing “prejudice” is a bit nauseating to me. I dislike this whole racism is about power structures thing so whole groups can’t experience it, it minimises the very real and personal experiences of racism people experience. I think it also creates hierarchies of racism between minority groups.

I remember that video of a Jewish man with his child being racially abused on a train by a black man while a woman in a hijab tried to intervene. Telling him what he experienced was just prejudice and not outright racism because he’s Jewish is sickening.

Telling him what he experienced was just prejudice and not outright racism because he’s Jewish is sickening.

So something is racism depending on how bad it is? Not according to whether the sufferer is being abused due to their race?

Oh God, this is just sick. Come on! You can accept other groups of people experience racism without it minimising your experience. This attitude is just- ugh.

And I've seen that video and yeah, the Jewish guy was being abused for being a Jew.

@Coffeeandbourbons WFT is wrong with you?? As if it isn't clear to be honest. You have spent all day on here baiting Jews.

Blown out of proportion. Unfair reaction she has received.

I don’t understand what point you are trying to make. Please clarify.

He was abused because he was a Jew (considered by most Jews to be an ethnicity). I made no comment on the severity of the incident or compared it to any other incident