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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Diane Abbott

894 replies

Flowerly · 23/04/2023 12:02

To say that Diane Abbott is doing her best to help the Labour Party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

Hideous antisemitism seemingly not gone away at all and add that to the horrendous misogyny in the Labour Party I wonder at this point why ANYONE would vote for them.

AIBU?

OP posts:
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33
SpeedSnap · 25/04/2023 14:07

MissyB1 · 25/04/2023 13:52

Well I wasn’t taught that the Jews killed Jesus either, but the mob did choose him over Barabbus. The mob would clearly have been made up of probably mainly Jewish people, they had turned against him, why? I never quite worked that out. However it was not them who arrested him and gave an order, the Romans saw him as a troublemaker and wanted him out of the way.

And anyhow why would anyone hold a grudge about that these days even if they did blame the Jews? 🤷‍♀️
Sorry I maybe deeply unpopular for saying this, but I think very ancient misdeeds need yes to be remembered (we have to learn from the past), but we don’t need to use them to beat each other with now!

I am a bit touchy after being gaslighted by a large portion of the population about who is a woman and felt I was being gaslighted, I know what I read in the Bible.

Iwasafool · 25/04/2023 14:13

I don't get all the blaming Romans/Judas/the Jewish mob (not all Jews) it doesn't make sense to me. Jesus came to redeem us by sacrificing his life so this must have been part of God's plan.

Notwavingbutsignalling · 25/04/2023 14:17

It’s all Pontius’ fault.

Let that be the end of it🙂

SpeedSnap · 25/04/2023 14:19

Iwasafool · 25/04/2023 14:13

I don't get all the blaming Romans/Judas/the Jewish mob (not all Jews) it doesn't make sense to me. Jesus came to redeem us by sacrificing his life so this must have been part of God's plan.

I said Jesus, Mary and the Apostles were Jews and jews are spoken about in revelation.

Someone announced that it was racist to acknowledge those involved in the death of Jesus, that's the first time I had come across this.

onirgellep · 25/04/2023 14:25

Iwasafool · 25/04/2023 14:13

I don't get all the blaming Romans/Judas/the Jewish mob (not all Jews) it doesn't make sense to me. Jesus came to redeem us by sacrificing his life so this must have been part of God's plan.

Whilst it was a popular view in medieval europe - it's now only held by some extremist religious groups/individuals/conspiracy theorists

Notwavingbutsignalling · 25/04/2023 14:25

I think the myth of Jews been responsible for Jesus’ death has become the official truth ( online) and maybe well meaning people are responding to the idea that as such a view is seen as causing historical European anti semiticism, then to refer to it now is to perpetuate a slur against the Jewish community.

However, it has never been a tenet of modern Catholicism (which presumably it is attributed to) rather it comes out of ignorance of the facts/manipulation of the truth.

Amen to all😉

Notwavingbutsignalling · 25/04/2023 14:28

Life of Brian isn’t this complicated.🤣

SpeedSnap · 25/04/2023 14:51

I doubt there are many Catholics in 2023 who aren't a heretic in some way.

There used to be a joke 'is the Pope Catholic' meaning if course he is, it's no longer a joke to many.

Notwavingbutsignalling · 25/04/2023 15:04

@SpeedSnap

oh, so you are old school? Follow the Curia’s view on things?

In light of the Holocaust, we have to acknowledge that the Vatican was at the centre of Europe. More should have been done.

Two let bits of information came out of the papers from that period that were released last year. More should have, and could have been done.

SpeedSnap · 25/04/2023 15:22

Notwavingbutsignalling · 25/04/2023 15:04

@SpeedSnap

oh, so you are old school? Follow the Curia’s view on things?

In light of the Holocaust, we have to acknowledge that the Vatican was at the centre of Europe. More should have been done.

Two let bits of information came out of the papers from that period that were released last year. More should have, and could have been done.

I actually walked away from the church for years and did my own thing for years. I wanted to look at other religions (my athiest Dad and some female friends I had through life and their lifestyle choices taught me all about that ideology), as otherwise how would I know if I was wrong.

I have never been a member of any subgroup of Catholic.

Being told God made mistakes and that anyone can create man and woman, all the woman hating, and watching institution capture, learning about Foucault and Yogyakarta Principles, made me understand who in particular was the reason I walked away from the church in the naughties.

I have never known anyone read Catholic papers or buy one, you would see them at the back of the church.

rootsandfruits1 · 25/04/2023 15:29

@dinkytoon Aren't you just lovely, telling Jews they're not listening to the right people - the 'right' people being the small number of Jews you have cherry picked to support your factional and tribal arguments. You seem only to be interested in Jewish voices that have proclaimed support for Corbyn (this is the unifying factor in all those you are currently promoting). There are a lot of leftwing Jews who moved away from the Labour Party because of Jeremy Corbyn and the antisemitism that he quite happily accommodated (at best) in his party. Most Jews (who incidentally have historically generally aligned with socialism and the Left) don't identify with the factional behaviour and arguments of JVL and Jewdas, and also Alexi Sayle. But they are then accused repeatedly of being either right wing or Red Tories.

The sole purpose of many of those people has been to very loudly minimise antisemitism, to the point of obsession. Of course, you clearly have no interest in hearing how terrifying that has been for British Jews. If I undermined black people's voices and their experiences of racism, as well as tell them they're listening to the wrong people, I would (rightly) be called a racist. Yet you're quite happy to tell Jews who they should and shouldn't listen to in order to understand antisemitism. Yet you quite confidently said this with no hint of irony:

You don't get to call out other Jewish voices and decide who is Jewish or not based on whether you agree with them or not. That's racism pure and simple.

I'm bowing out now. The mental gymnastics people do in order to downplay antisemitism and tell Jews they can't suffer racism beggars belief.

Everanewbie · 25/04/2023 15:40

rootsandfruits1 · 25/04/2023 15:29

@dinkytoon Aren't you just lovely, telling Jews they're not listening to the right people - the 'right' people being the small number of Jews you have cherry picked to support your factional and tribal arguments. You seem only to be interested in Jewish voices that have proclaimed support for Corbyn (this is the unifying factor in all those you are currently promoting). There are a lot of leftwing Jews who moved away from the Labour Party because of Jeremy Corbyn and the antisemitism that he quite happily accommodated (at best) in his party. Most Jews (who incidentally have historically generally aligned with socialism and the Left) don't identify with the factional behaviour and arguments of JVL and Jewdas, and also Alexi Sayle. But they are then accused repeatedly of being either right wing or Red Tories.

The sole purpose of many of those people has been to very loudly minimise antisemitism, to the point of obsession. Of course, you clearly have no interest in hearing how terrifying that has been for British Jews. If I undermined black people's voices and their experiences of racism, as well as tell them they're listening to the wrong people, I would (rightly) be called a racist. Yet you're quite happy to tell Jews who they should and shouldn't listen to in order to understand antisemitism. Yet you quite confidently said this with no hint of irony:

You don't get to call out other Jewish voices and decide who is Jewish or not based on whether you agree with them or not. That's racism pure and simple.

I'm bowing out now. The mental gymnastics people do in order to downplay antisemitism and tell Jews they can't suffer racism beggars belief.

Great post.

highfidelity · 25/04/2023 16:12

Everanewbie · 25/04/2023 15:40

Great post.

Agreed.

Tracker1234 · 25/04/2023 17:14

Honestly don’t think she will be back. They will quietly retire her and I am astonished she is still up until very recently a sitting MP and before that the Shadow Home Secretary. There are clearly issues with her health and I suspect she does little around her constituency.

I am also baffled that people are voting her in bearing in mind she is struggling often to say anything sensible. She is a massive hypocrite regarding private education yet She continues on making her self look dazed and confused. Someone needs to pull her away from the spotlight.

Ortiguilla · 25/04/2023 17:20

Everanewbie · 25/04/2023 15:40

Great post.

Agreed

IwasDreep · 25/04/2023 17:37

So very sad to see that nothing changes.

I still maintain that no-one’s pain, prejudice, persecution, experience of hatred or similar trumps anyone else’s experience.

Everyone’s experience is valid. Everyone’s experience matters.
Everyone matters. Everyone.

I was Dreep. I experienced more hatred here than you would know for saying the above.

I wasn’t brown enough to have an opinion. I wasn’t brown enough to know hatred. I wasn’t brown enough to know discrimination. I wasn’t brown enough. Which is why I will not hang around on this thread.

But that didn’t stop me experiencing it did it?

Hate is hate. Persecution is persecution.

And nothing changes.

Haffiana · 25/04/2023 18:26

HoldOnMiGenna · 25/04/2023 13:39

Why has so much of pro Black discourse been manipulated into corporate social media facilitated anti semitism both based on a lack of research and the subliminal and overt messaging that relative collective prosperity and collective discipline and boundaries to facilitate that reality wipes out the current reality of racism, murderous and not towards said group and an assumption that their history and identity belongs to others to erase and group?

The irony being that pro Blackness has been corporatised into the poppy show that any basic non Black or white socialised barely Black can seek and gain clout and recognition through Black people who are increasingly seeing the responsibility for our progress as the task for others ,not realising that play equals pay , yet out the other side of our non collective neck, we moan about our status.
Selling out Blackness to white queer theorists, party politricks, corporatised ghetto culture, fashion and entertainer£_s who are not even scared of Black censure anymore, as they denigrate continuously. What used to be a paragon of excellence, only imitable by the absolute creme de la creme of any "other” and where misogynoir from Black men was not allowed to become a carte blanche purview where Black woman and other women are now known as the same noun as a female dog and no Black woman can expect clout from large numbers of Black people if she doesn't gussy up like a Black drag queen's misogynistic version of a white street walker.
Then too many of us have embraced the notion of entertainers and sports people as "leaders", so that we now get to get narcissistic supply for these mostly divesting anti Black woman , low intellect , behind closed doors and half open nihilism and degeneracy embracing people when they speak out of turn, as if being an entertainer is a civil rights pursuit.

In the meantime, collectivism, moving in silence, the tribe before tribalism, collective sabotage in order to satisfy individual sex wants /indiscipline and the lack of hegemony, but expecting non Black people to respect a hegemony that isn't close to a reality for a Black Brit population that is both relatively small and hasn't got even a fifty year totally shared experience of the same type of oppression like in the Americas and unable to sing from the same song sheet (I sigh remembering how many Black meetings I have gone to that have turned into foolishness and fuckry with Black men partnered to white woman always having the most to say and failing to see any irony, whilst slagging The White Man).
When pro Blackness denigrates into using Massa's tools to try and break down Massa's house and caring more about White Supremacy than Black Pride, well, this is where Black Britain is.
We have allowed an over familiarity to manifest and we are the group that embraced "multiculturalism" the most of any group of people, not seeing it for the anti monoracial Black ( within and outside of the "community") purview that it is and the severance of any large scale helpful ties that generational British White working class and Black working class, especially in London used by have, with Blairism and post Blair liberal media and sell out Black politicians of the Lammyesque bent sending the message that it was white middle class leftists and liberals that were and are the white people in the UK most "down" for us.

Pro Blackness has become gentrified and anti intellectualised and is riven with populist discourse, the better for disingenuous, pandering Black and other people to make money off of Black pain , anti semitism and White Supremacy.
I preferred it when pro Blackness at any social level had an obvious intellectual, not jealous of any other, Black Pride, non validation seeking purview and where stanning wasn't the main prism through which being pro Black was seen.

Diane Abbott's bloom fell off of her , for me when she wrote an article on The Voice just slagging off illegal Jamaican migrants, decrying that they , after years of living here still sounded as if they just landed. Why was she perpetrating Barber Shop Talk in Black newspaper as a politician and one of a Jamaican background? Then I saw that Rich White man, ex Tory MP and perjurer Johnathan Aitken is a godparent for her son and she got her son christened in Westminster, that same temple of officiation of centuries long oppression of worldwide and national populations and I knew that she spent her life running from a Blackness she cannot escape, but will use to pander to underthinking Black people she doesn't even like whilst she is one of those tertiary educated middle class Marxists that hate working class people of any persuasion , whilst being White, posh male identified, yet has a hate boner for White women.

I'm too Black and been Black for too long to give credence to unserious , panya machete Black people in positions of power like Diane Abbott who has chosen to throw away her on
1980s searing excellence, by playing to various populist peanut galleries over the decades.
Now for David Lammy's rawse. At least Sister Kemi isn't out here pretending that a man can flex a cervix and calling the ensurance of female rights " selfish".

Diane Abbott is useless for Black progress. Being Black does not mean not knowing when to put sentiment aside for common sense.
Furthermore, neither is "representation" meaningful for Black people if only beneficial to that individual. It's like we refuse to see the world through an adult prism , not knowing that entertainers cannot be leaders, that most politicians have a personality that enabled them to even think that they can represent people that is "off key" to say the least and then we do not seem to see that getting politicians to act on a community's behalf, there has to be financial collectivism , because politricks is now, more than ever about "pay to play" and moving in silence until mission accomplished.

Diane and them don't want to talk about that, though. An infantilised , feelings before facts mob is what these dullards need to make coin.
All the pro Black Black people of note worth a damn been dead or are on their last legs and none of quality and searing aim high, aim low intellect come from the U K, either.
Ms Abbott could have written a ten page letter about British Anti Blackness without co opting anti Blackness from anywhere else. She could have put Black people front and centre of her so called pro Black letter without mentioning any other oppressed group, thus diluting theirs and our oppression and if she wanted to make use of her Oxbridge education in the furthering of her pro Black anti racist argument, she is quite capable of reasoning in a linear manner. However she chose the peanut gallery circular reasoning route and hers and their narcissism coming before focused meaningful and impactful pro Blackness instead of validation seeking that corporate Pro Blackness is.
I'm just tired of seeing the same three fucking talking points on this site whenever Black people chat about anti Blackness. How pro Black can you be waking up with White Supremacy on your brain, but expecting White people to be the lead on anti racism and expect Black progress as a subsidiary of that pie in the sky without Black Collectivism out with White Paternalism?
We have no serious public pro Black Brits with no 'conflict of interests'.
There's a reason the diaspora laughs at "Black Britain'.

Thank you for one of the best posts I have ever read on the internet, let alone MN.

PollyPeptide · 25/04/2023 19:04

I love Jesus, I do, but it was 2000 years ago so whoever was responsible, it's time to let it go. Jesus had to die to atone for the sins of the whole world. That's the point of his existence. He's forgiven everyone. So should we. Isn't that his message?

SpeedSnap · 25/04/2023 21:22

The double standards with the current most persecuted religious group Christians being put in the lower hiarchy group in the world view of others is not a surprise. When it comes to spitting etc only they should have others condem it happening to them and silence when it happens to other groups.

I wonder if any contemporary nation would take on national debts for 70 years and send their citizens to die to free Christians in similar circumstances!

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