Diane Abbott

[Flowerly]

To say that Diane Abbott is doing her best to help the Labour Party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

Hideous antisemitism seemingly not gone away at all and add that to the horrendous misogyny in the Labour Party I wonder at this point why ANYONE would vote for them.

AIBU?

I’m not sure, maybe you need to get in touch with the ancestry company. I just double checked online and it confirmed that Jewish is not a race - what’s more the only person who really pushed the idea that is is was Hitler.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/are-jews-a-race/

Confirmed by My Jewish Learning.

Anyone can experience racism. It does not matter what colour their skin is.

Think you may need to read up on what racism entails.

I find the phrase “All black people….” Really offensive. Has she spoken to every black person on the planet before declaring to speak for all? Everyone has a different lived experience. She can talk about her own experience, the experience of people she knows and has spoken to. But how can you claim everyone has experienced the same as you because they have the same skin colour?

I know exactly what racism entails, but thank you anyway.

Yes in theory although white English people are extremely unlikely to experience it and racism against white people isn’t really a thing; more of a possibility in theory.

But it’s only racism if the reason you’re being targeted is due to your race. If Jewish isn’t a race, and you’re being targeted for being Jewish, then how can it be racism?

I recall her saying that there are too many white faces north of Watford.
Racist.

She also caused a furore by claiming white mothers were not as supportive as black women when it came to their children's education.
Racist again.

Labour's anti-semitism always shocks me.
6 million dead in the war and Abbott compares.it to prejudice against redheads. I have heard of attacks on Jewish people

I beg to differ.
If you did you wouldn’t have made that statement

What position? She’s a backbencher with an incredibly loyal electorate, she’s got one of the biggest majorities in parliament. Added to which she’s highly intelligent with a degree from Cambridge. Sadly the poor woman seems to have completely lost the plot recently.

I’m not sure, maybe you need to get in touch with the ancestry company. I just double checked online and it confirmed that Jewish is not a race - what’s more the only person who really pushed the idea that is is was Hitler.

You're making yourself look daft. European Jews were historically Ashkenazi, which is an ethnic group.

Mariah Carey is 1/4 black: her father was mixed race.

Well then the Jewish Learning organisation looks daft as well doesn’t it?

If I was ungracious I would say you are parroting key themes the Tories are going to be majoring on in the very dirty next election - culture wars, because as sure as hell they aren't going to argue about their economic competency or fitness to govern.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/race-discrimination

According to the equality act race refers to ethnic origin too so yes under UK law Jewish is a race, so are Irish and Roma

I can assure you that racism towards white people is a thing, we just rarely see it or hear about it.

I'm Jewish. However I am not a practising Jew. Even so, if Hitler was still around and rounding up Jews. He would also take David Baddiel who is an atheist.

Baddiel explains the whole race thing far better than I can. I suggest you read Jews Don't Count or watch the documentary which should be on All4

Next you'll be telling me I don't understand antisemitism.

I’m a white Jewish woman and I can see what she was trying to say. She may have expressed it clumsily but the racism experienced by someone black - where every encounter they have can be shaped by the colour of their skin - feels to me like it’s of a different order. Yes I’m Jewish, yes Jews have faced prejudice (and worse), but drawing an equivalence between racism and anti semitism always feels off to me.

Unfortunately the vile Abbott reflects the thoughts of many people, as shown on this thread, who seem to think there is some kind of excuse for racism towards Jews and seem to think racism can only be against black people. People like @Coffeeandbourbons seem to be quite happy spouting racism against Jewish people.

What term would you use for the specific oppression of black people that Diane Abbott describes? Slavery, apartheid, being treated as second class and excluded by culture and legislation from participating in society?

As soon as you say "anyone can experience racism" you take away the only word black people have to describe that oppression.

As a woman, at least when people say "anyone can experience sexism" I can say "but only women experience misogyny".

If a white person says to a Jew "anyone can experience racism", they can say "but only Jews experience anti-semitism"

I think Diane Abbott was extremely clumsy but I also think its important for black people to be able to talk about their oppression without the "racism can happen to anyone" line.

But it’s only racism if the reason you’re being targeted is due to your race. If Jewish isn’t a race, and you’re being targeted for being Jewish, then how can it be racism?

Are you aware that 'races' are not a biologically reality but a social construct? The world is made up of various ethnicities but actual different races of humans isn't real.

When did Britain and Ireland have similar populations? Wikipedia says 1841 populations were 18m (Britain) and 8m (Ireland).

David Baddiel's rebrand as an authoritative voice in anti-racism is remarkably impressive. Astonishing really.

Ok I will. But again, I don’t think racism means ‘anyone Hitler would’ve sent to an extermination camp’.

What she said was appalling and although I do not like Stamer he acted immediately and I do not doubt that this will be the end of Diane Abbot's career. As a life long Labour voter I am not especially impressed with them but come the next G E the prospect of another 5 years of the Tories fills me with utter horror. They have wrecked this country, it is as if we have been burgled as a nation. they have ransacked everything and then taken a shit on the carpet for good measure. Things just feel so bleak, I have never known such terrible times. I would say to anyone young, just get out

I'm a Jewish woman, so I can experience (and have experienced) not only misogyny, but also antisemitism and racism.

For many, Jews are either too white, or not white enough when really, we're not white at all, we're a whole other ethnic group. This is why we can experience racism.

HTH.