To take this job despite negative impact on DC?

[MumGuilt3000]

NC for this as have also posted elsewhere and apologies for slightly dramatic title, I don't really think this would be detrimental to DC per se, I just couldn't think of a better way to word it!

I'm currently on mat leave with 1 yo DC, due to return at the end of May. I like my job in the sense that I love my colleagues, but the quality of work is crap and things have apparently changed a lot since I've been on mat leave. Targets have gone up, pay has not increased relatively and expectations are generally getting bigger without much in return. I've been wanting to move on for some time, but the pandemic and then pregnancy put that all on hold for a while.

I've been looking for a new job for a while but nothing suitable has come up. I've agreed 3 days a week on my return with my current employer and in the office once or twice a week. Overall they're pretty flexible about how and when I work, so long as client needs are met - along with targets.

Last week a potential new role came up which would be a huge payrise (think £30k FTE) with better benefits and very similar targets and expectations. Also a huge improvement in quality of work. It's also comforting because I know someone who works there and I'm confident I'd be happy there because she is and I know her personality. They're happy for me to start on 3 or 4 days BUT the catch is they'd want me to go full time from September.

This wasn't the plan - DC is going to nursery 3 days a week and I thought this would be the perfect balance for us. However, this is a really great opportunity and given the huge improvements in all areas of the job, I feel I'd be really stupid to miss out. At the same time, I feel so guilty for putting DC into nursery full time and missing so much time with them when they're so little. It's likely they'll be an only child and I worry I'd regret the decision later on. I'd be in the office 2 days a week and I'd be out of the house from 7.30-7.30 at least on those days, so basically won't see DC.

Now I know I'm incredibly privileged to be in this position and many people have no choice but to work full time and utilise full time childcare, so this post isn't meant to be insensitive and I certainly don't judge anyone who puts their DC in full time, but this wasn't what I'd planned for.

So, AIBU to go for a new role which would make a huge difference to both my career and our finances, even though it would mean DC being in FT childcare, rather than 3 days a week?

We clearly have had very different experiences but generally, regardless of personal experiences women are the ones who are expected to be the default parent.

Expectations aren't shifting fast enough. For as many complaints I see, I see just as many if not more ''he helps when he can but he's worked all day'', ''He has never had the DC alone so he'd need help'', ''I can't leave him alone with DC because they probably wouldn't get fed'' etc.

I think full time nursery care for small babies is so sad. 12 hour days without a parent is a long time. Your child with be with other people for most of their waking hours. You will miss so much. If you absolutely have to, it’s a no brainer, but if you have a choice then why would you not want to spend more time with what you say might be your only child?

Personally I wouldn't, you won't get that time back with DC but you will get other job opportunities. Maybe the way to look at it is what would you regret more.

Firstly, he's not a small baby. Secondly, it won't be 12 hours without a parent, just 12 hours without his DM two days a week. His DF will still pick him up from nursery.

Maybe the way to look at it is what would you regret more.

indeed - would you rather appreciate the memories, or the extra income when DH is made redundant or retires.

@Guiltridden12345
Just because you think 'it's so sad' to have DC in childcare doesn't mean it is.

I have done FT job, PT job and SAHP and I am a better mother when I have a job I really enjoy - this is /was a FT role.

Both my DC were in nursery from 10 months every day. They are both great (now 11 and 8) and I genuinely have not regretted it.

I have quite a few friends who have been out of the workplace for 10 years and are struggling to see how they can return and make decent money.

if you have a choice then why would you not want to spend more time with what you say might be your only child?

If you have the choice, why don't you want to give your children a comfortable life, opportunities and financial security? Especially if DH's job is not secure and he's close to retirement?

And about the deathbed regret - how many posts are here on MN: 'I can't afford to heat the house'. 'DC really want to go on the school trip, but we can't afford'. 'DH is abusive but I cannot leave as I don't earn enough' etc etc. Just put 'can't afford' in MN search and you'll see. Pretty sure those people regret not earning more.

Your mentality is exactly what's so damaging to women. What if op was a single parent and used ft childcare? Would that make her a bad mother? And what about women in other countries where ML is only 3 months, what do you think of all of them? Bad mothers too, poor abandoned children? Op has an amazing opportunity for her career which will benefit the family in the long term, a supportive dh who will be able to cover flexibility, but yes let's make the op feel shit and guilty. Pathetic, have a word with yourself.

OP is part of a society where sexism is ingrained from birth which leads to many women worrying that working full time will have a negative impact on their child. They are made to believe that they should feel guilty for wanting a career.

Men are raised to be 'providers', they are expected to work so don't get asked why they bother having children if they were just going to work/not see them/not look after them.

This. I find it pretty shocking that a bunch of people have tipped up here to actively discourage someone from taking a job which could hugely improve their family’s economic wellbeing because of some martyrdom complex about mothers having to be there at every waking moment of children’s early lives and the same is never applied to the father. It’s profoundly depressing.

@Dilemma19

Well said.

I can't stand it when women don't support each other. @Guiltridden12345 I hope you realise that your opinions are incredibly damaging to some women. Don't be naive to think this entrenched thinking over generations have held women back in the workplace.

Personally I am a great believer of doing what's best for the family unit. One of the most basic of these is contributing towards accommodation, warmth, food etc.

Also some women (& men) don't like the early years of parenthood but come into their own in later stages e.g. primary or secondary school. Personally, I was skipping back into work, however, I recognise it's not the same for everyone.

I think SAHP are amazing because I know I couldn't do it.

Everyone getting on their high horse about a women’s right to work and societal expectations - that is not the issue here!

These concerns are valid, we have a long long way to go before we are anywhere near gender equality and no woman should be made to feel guilty about wanting a career.

But OPs concern is that she will regret her choice because she WANTS to be there for her small child. Not because she feels she has to be. She has explicitly stated she doesn’t think her child will suffer if she works full time. Why are people so worked up about the suggestion that a mother may want to spend the bulk of her time with her child and might have some regrets if she doesn’t do that? (And I am saying mother because OP is a mother and this is a post about her feelings. Not because I don’t think fathers should want that too.)

@ladymaiasura almost all mothers want to be there for their small children. That’s motherhood and apple pie (forgive the pun). It’s so obvious it doesn’t need stating.

But the OP’s dilemma is: is a few more months of hands on FT childcare really worth passing up a life changing amount of money? I would say the family will benefit far more from the extra money (and the longer term benefit to the OP’s earning power) than a few extra months of her singing “wind the bobbin up” and going around the park

I’m not being dismissive about this btw. Good care of young children is hugely important but the idea that all of this has to be done by the biological parent or the family will suffer is routinely used as a way to hold women back from achieving critical financial independence. And there’s no credible evidence that a working mum does any harm to the children. So why keep banging on and making women feel shit about advancing themselves?

While some will absolutely believe what they’re saying, there will also be those that would use those tropes to encourage OP not to take it because they don’t want to see someone else advance if they can’t.

@whumpthereitis

While some will absolutely believe what they’re saying, there will also be those that would use those tropes to encourage OP not to take it because they don’t want to see someone else advance if they can’t.

Maybe. I can't speak for people's motives and I think a lot of it is just social conditioning and muddled thinking. I just feel really strongly that children benefit more by leagues of magnitude from having mothers with financial independence and agency in the workplace and in the family than they do from observing some homespun notion of hands-on motherhood seeped in moral tropes from the immediate postwar era.

Most small children barely remember this period. A traumatic and neglectful upbringing is of course awful and to be avoided at all cost, but this isn't what we're talking about. With a good, trusted caregiver it literally makes no difference. I do understand the emotional wrench that a mother experiences going back to work when they have a small child as I've done it myself but indulging this for a few more months isn't usually a good reason for passing up a step change in financial wellbeing for a family.

As a single mother also I didn't have these choices open to me and I thoroughly resent the idea that I've harmed my child by putting her in the care of a professional and thoroughly well research childminder while I went out to earn money which she needed to keep a roof over her head.

Of course the OP is entitled to consider whether she's ready to go back to work and to try to manage the work/life balance as best as possible for herself and her child (and with the support of her partner). But this constant drip drip of "you'll really regret it" or "you'll never get the time back" is so damaging. And it makes many of us angry because it is never directed at the father in the family.

Let's be really honest about the risk/reward benefit: few women regret massively enhancing their financial strength and quite a lot live to regret becoming financially dependent on a man for a few extra months of looking after a small child.

in your post you said that posters telling OP that she would be missing out are ridiculous

They are - because stating as a fact is inaccurate & ridiculous, as I demonstrated. 🤷🏻‍♀️

it's women who are as bad or worse than other men at making mothers working FT feel inferior

That's a really good point too.

I love working part time and wouldn't work full time for double that salary. Even 4 days a week is better than 5. It gives you a better work life balance.

@ladymaiasura

I responded directly to each of your points so I'm not sure why you are shifting perspective in your follow up post.

In short, I made it clear that it's possible to be an engaged parent, having quality time with your DC, and also work f/t

And 'inferring judgment'? Your own words were assumptive and judgmental as you could only see one perspective in the post I quoted from you (you're now shifting position it appears).

Childrearing is not at all valued and we should all have high powered careers as well as having kids.

@ladymaiasura

That's honestly nonsense. And most working women don't have 'high-powered careers'. My own is a middle management position in a university - a good job that I enjoy but certainly not high-powered or massively well-paid (unfortunately)

I know plenty of SAHM, mums working p/t, as well as those working f/t. I don't think anything negative about any of those choices.

@ladymaiasura

What does childrearing have to do with having a career

few women regret massively enhancing their financial strength and quite a lot live to regret becoming financially dependent on a man for a few extra months of looking after a small child.

@Thepeopleversuswork

You've made excellent points very cogently.

(It's not relevant to OP's post, but my abusive financially reckless H created chaos in my life before leaving me with 3 very small DC, and has refused to provide appropriately. A decade on we are in court trying to get some finality to our situation. I have a good job, all things considered, but find it very hard to live and raise my DC. I would massively counsel any woman to consider her own financial security as much as she can regardless of the happiness of her marriage - over & over I bailed out my H until my own savings were depleted).

lol so much faux ‘sadness’ for the kids of mums who work full time (dads who work full time of course are missing nothing……).

I resuscitate people for a living, including children. Almost all of my colleagues have children and work full time. Our children being taken care of by others is the reason we’re here to keep your child alive.

You’re welcome.

Quite. Also for “sadness” read “smugness” and “judgement”.

This is a perfect way of looking at it, thank you so much.

Oh, i’m fully in agreement with you. I think OP should absolutely take the job, to the benefit of herself and her family. Staying at home more is not the be all and end all of ‘successful parenting’, and taking this job would open up a world of opportunity and experience for her children that could see then reaping more benefit than any provided by having a stay at home or part time working parent. I said earlier in the thread that my own parents worked full time, and what they were able to provide by doing that put my brother and I in a fantastic position that has paid, and will pay, dividends throughout our lives.

I do think a lot of people believe what they’re saying when negatively judging a mother working full time, but I also believe there are times when it’s envy wearing misogyny’s wig, and the ‘working mothers bad’ trope is an easy one to fall back on when trying to convince someone to decide against their own interests. Just reading this board shows the level of resentment and dislike that is often felt towards those whose only ‘crime’ is to have more, so I do think that aspect of human nature will play a part to a greater or lesser degree, especially when talking about £30k a year.