Aftermath of brother’s wedding

[HuxleyDog]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4222570-Am-I-selfish-Brother-s-Wedding?postsby=HuxleyDog

I have tried to post a link to my only ever mumsnet post from 2 years ago.

After I posted my little boy came in early July following a good bit of drama. My brother relented and allowed all of us to come to his wedding however we chose to only go to the ceremony and he did seem pleased about this. On three occasions between birth and wedding my brother had the same conversation about what would happen if the baby cried. It got a bit heated. We decided to sit at the back but my dad insisted we come to sit with family. My boy slept throughout. Family did come to fuss but there was no distractions from wedding.

They now have a lovely five month old baby!

Relationship between us and sister-in-law has changed and we are not as close as we were, but my brother still comes round. I have stopped asking about her as he always seems embarrassed.

My sister-in-law’s father died a month ago very suddenly. My mother and I went round immediately but SiL was out with her mother. When she came in she screamed at us to get out saying it wasn’t about us and we’d ruined her wedding. She claimed that we didn’t care for her father but we should be happy we had saved money on the band. We had no idea what she was talking about.

It turned out my father who is divorced from my mother had withdrawn funding from their wedding when he found out my husband and baby were banned from wedding. When we were invited and my dad tried to pay Sister-in-Law’s dad wouldn’t take the money.
None of us knew this. My mother swears she knew nothing.
I texted my sister-in law apologising and saying that we knew nothing. It’s obvious that I am blocked. There’s nothing I can do is there? My brother just said to leave it. My dad is genuinely upset but still thinks he did nothing wrong especially as baby slept throughout.

It’s really shit to offer to contribute to your child’s wedding IF you get to control it. Either offer or don’t - don’t try to buy your own way.

OP’s dad needs to remember he has two children.

@Ooolaaaala I was referring to incidents from before I went NC.
No game playing from me. Just had enough passive aggressive BS from her over more than 3 decades.

No evidence he had any interest in controlling it until they behaved badly.
It’s precisely because he has 2 children that there’s an issue: he can’t collude in the mistreatment of one of his kids by funding the other. He was put in an impossible position and he’s right to say he won’t be involved on those terms.

If they’d just behaved reasonably there wouldn’t have been a problem.

In other words, “As long as you do exactly what I want, there won’t be a problem”.

OK understand now.

I was NC with my MIL in the last 5 years of her life.

Spent the previous 20 jumping higher and higher through her decreasingly smaller hoops …. huge regrets …. no need for conflict or stress wish I had retreated years before not trying to gain her approval.

There were no fireworks when I did withdraw she was delighted she had her DS all to herself. Win Win

I feel sorry for your dad trying to navigate the family dynamics between such a pack of childish and selfish adults.

Ha! He hasn’t “tried to navigate” anything - he’s used money to get his own way.

I'm surprised by the number of posters who seem to think the wedding is an experience that the bride and groom are stars of and can therefore make ridiculous demands of everyone around them. The wedding is a ceremony that brings two families together forever forwards and making sure everyone on both sides is involved, witnesses and celebrates the wedding (and supports the marriage) is really important.

The marriage will (hopefully) last for decades, bring new members to join both families and nurture lifelong relationships among the new generations. It needs to outlive the pettiness of day to day arguments. There has no doubt been poor behaviour on both sides, in response to the original and outrageous demands of SIL and DB. And you can tell from OPs post that there is a strong sense of 'family' in her family which probably makes this harder to solve.

Anyone who says the OP should have expressed and left baby with a bottle has no idea how difficult it is to get a baby of any age to swap between breast and bottle, let alone a few days or weeks.

If OP comes back, she'll see from the majority of comments that going around to see her SIL after her father's death was unwise and she needs to think about her SIL as someone you cannot count on to behave in a civilised way and she needs to treat her with kid gloves to maintain a relationship with her brother.

Hopefully as time passes feelings might mellow. In the meantime, stay away from SIL!

Did you go to the funeral OP?

No it’s: “As long as I get exactly what I want (on someone else’s dollar)no problem”. If I don’t get exactly what I want I will have a tantrum (for 2 years).

He didn’t say “I will bankroll you on the condition that you have a Disney-themed wedding or an Elvis impersonator.” He simply stepped in when their behaviour was really out of order.

The bridezillas on this thread are so self-centred as to not be able to put themselves in the father’s position. If one is funding the wedding of one offspring and the other is disinvited causing great upset, if one continues to fund it one would be colluding in that exclusion.

But he didn’t pay in the end and still
got what he wanted.

People seem to forget there was a bride and GROOM. Yet the sil is the problem.

All we know 100% that she personally wholly only her has done is rage at the op and her mother for turning up at her house uninvited while she was grieving the loss of the her father. She then unleaded every big small petty and everything else feeling she had bottled up.

The groom was more than happy with no baby there, the groom was the one who kept having the chats about the possibility of the baby crying during the ceremony not the sil.

The Sil/her dad rejected the ops dads money when he decided to give it again.

The sil has just decided to lose the stress of ops family and go nc by the sounds of it. The brother still speaks to them and visits alone when he wants to. Again hardly the devil sil controlling her poor dh or anything.

I am shocked by the number of responses. I am not coming on to ‘defend’ myself but just state how I felt about everything.
I am close to my brother and liked my SiL. They are both very down to earth.
I was I totally admit, very upset that they did not want my baby at their wedding. This wasn’t me wanting to show my baby off. This was me wanting to see my brother get married. I think my original post confirms this as I was willing to go alone to the ceremony.
I was again very genuinely hurt about their attitude to my husband.
All along I have ‘blamed’ my brother and SiL equally but particularly hurt when my brother talked about unfortunate timing. I don’t think they were particularly jealous of my son more they didn’t want distractions.
they relented and we all went. I absolutely did not know that their relenting was related to my dad withdrawing £1,000.
I said I would ensure the baby didn’t disturb proceedings. I didn’t suggest that we would sit at back that was something we decided on the day. My baby was breastfed and fell fast asleep so we then joined my cousins two rows back. Of course family came to see the baby but before SiL arrived.
My husband was not invited to have a photograph and when my mum wanted baby in one after the siblings’ one the assistant took baby out of husband’s arms in a flash. We only realised after. In the spur of moment we didn’t realise this might be a snub.
My SiL hasn’t not spoken to me in 2 years but things have been different.
As for us going round when her dad died we absolutely did this out of love and concern. It never occurred to me that this would be intrusive. My brother accepts this totally. I have sent a card to SiL to this effect. I will never approach her again.
My mum wanted to go to funeral to show respect not to intrude but now she won’t.
I never in my life thought I would be in this kind of conflict with a woman I regard as family.

OP. It's simple. You knew they didn't actually want the baby there, though they had to relent. Yet you did what you wanted.
So can you call her family when all that you ever wanted was to impose your will.

I am sorry, but If someone haven't spoken to you in 2 years (no matter why) it's pretty stupid to think they will take surprise condolence visit well.

Frankly, why there is rift is actually not important. What's important is there is a rift, you have not spoken for 2 years yet you and your mum thought unnanounced visit to greaving sil will be welcomed.
It's all very me, me if I am honest, especially after this update.
The woman lost her father, it's not hard to leave people be in peace in these situations. Instead there is a thread about "but I ...", inviting criticism of her wedding from 2 years ago instead of talking just about current issue of "put my butt where it wasn't clearly welcome"

I think it was more than a little insensitive for you and your mother to visit your SIL almost immediately after the death of her father when your relationship has been strained (at best). Saying it came from “love” seems OTT as you do not have a loving relationship with your SIL. In her position, I can see how it could come across as more than a little false and intrusive. I don’t think shouting at you was necessary, but people don’t always act 100% rationally when grieving. I’d chalk that down to misadventure and lack of thought on your part OP.

As to the wedding, I think it is fine to not invite children, including very young babies, to a wedding- as long as you fully accept that many people with children will decide (or have to) decline the invitation.

Equally, if you don’t like the way someone is organising their wedding, then you simply decline the invitation and move on. Obviously, if the reason is you can’t/don’t want to leave your child then you simply say why and I would expect there to be complete understanding, given the circumstances. As it was your siblings wedding I think it ok to say- “ok but you realise this means I can’t come, even though I’d love to be there”.

What you don’t do is kick up a fuss until you get your own way. Or get parents involved to agitate on your behalf until you get your own way. It won’t turn out well in most cases- even if you get your own way in the end- you are still resentful re the original slight/problem and they are resentful that they were manipulated into doing something they didn’t want at their wedding.

Your father’s behaviour was pretty appalling in my view- a gift should be freely given or not given at all. Or the strings attached very explicitly stated from the very start, so the receiver is in no doubt as to what they are agreeing to. Anything else is manipulative and unfair, usually leads to further resentment down the line and it rarely ends well. To then try to reinstate the “gift” when he got his own way is clumsy, at best, and I’m not surprised the father of the bride declined. I’m not sure why your father is upset, though- he thinks he did the right thing, after all.

Regardless of whether you agree that OP’s DB/SIL have a right to exclude babies from their wedding, it is blindingly obvious that they did not want the baby at the wedding, were then pressured into it- including being manipulated financially by OP’s father. It’s not exactly surprising that OP’s DB and/or SIL were not have been entirely happy at the outcome and are resentful about it all. Others may not agree with what they did, or their reasoning, but the outcome was that they were coerced into having something they didn’t want on their wedding day. It’s almost certainly going to leave some mark on the relationships going forward. And relations have indeed been strained since- not surprising.

OP and her father got what they wanted in the short-term (child at the wedding) but at the expense of causing resentment both ways and strained relationships. I’m not saying DB and SIL are “innocent”, as I don’t think either side handled it well or covered themselves in glory, by the sounds of it but I do think the bride and groom should get to decide on a child free wedding, if that’s what they want.

I am sorry, but If someone haven't spoken to you in 2 years (no matter why) it's pretty stupid to think they will take surprise condolence visit well.

Frankly, why there is rift is actually not important. What's important is there is a rift, you have not spoken for 2 years yet you and your mum thought unnanounced visit to greaving sil will be welcomed.

This basically - if you wanted to reach out going though brother who is still talking to you or sending a card would be how most people would approach it.

I think it was unlikely the relationship would have improved post wedding as she hadn't spoke to you for 2 years but it was at least a possibility - I suspect now because of your actions they'll never be any kind of relationship with SIL.

@HuxleyDog

You and your mum were not in the wrong to visit and offer condolences.

Your SIL is a horrible human being, rude, spiteful, completely lacking in manners, and with no grace whatsoever. Carrying a grudge for two whole years, with no end in sight, shows you the sort of utter horror she is.

She clearly saw the wedding as some sort of theatrical performance, with herself in the starring role. I pity your brother, and I pity their baby, both of whom are stuck dealing with her on a daily basis.

Wash your hands of her. No good can come of ever having anything to do with her again.

Raking over old ground will achieve nothing.

I guess this comes down to the fact that people fall into two camps when it comes to weddings. One view is that weddings are the joining of two families and therefore it's important that family are invited (including family children). The other group feels a wedding is the joining of a couple and their wishes are what counts.

It's hard if you have one view but your sibling differs and isn't fussed if you are there. Or would rather not have you present than risk your baby causing a disruption.

Sorry I think people think she hasn’t spoken to me in two years. I used a clumsy double negative in my update. She has spoken to me but it’s not been the same as before the wedding.
Also I didn’t agitate to get baby invited. I expressed my disappointment and from the beginning said I would go on my own to the ceremony. I talked to my mum . I didn’t ask her to intervene and never spoke to my dad.
Genuinely we went round to offer condolences.

I really don’t understand why people feel they can impose on what other people do and don’t want at a special occasion, then cause friction about it for weeks in the run up so it, making it horrible for everyone and tainting the experience. Rightly or wrongly, it’s their decision to make, and Its nothing but selfishness and entitlement to try and get it changed IMO. You can choose not to go if the requirements aren’t to you liking.

They disinvited your husband because they knew what you would do, they knew you’d say he had no one to watch the baby at the 11th hour so you just ‘had to bring him’ and you’d all rock up anyway.. or agree to stand outside then come in anyway.. in the same way that you agreed to sit at the back.. but then didn’t (shocker!).

I don’t actually agree with the bride’s stance on the no baby rule in the first place to be fair but that’s entirely besides the point, they had a very stressful time organising it anyway, and they wanted what they wanted, she obviously didn’t want the attention taking away from her and your brother, (could be history there, who knows?) but you fought it and fought it till you did, so well done you, and to your dad for making it even more awful. I hope the massive wedge you’ve created was worth it.

I’m sorry if this sounds harsh but it’s no wonder she doesn’t want anything to do with you now.

We know that, Huxley, you tried hard. The situation is so disappointing for you, especially as you used to be 'all right' with the lady who is now your sister in law. I wish I could give you words of comfort but it looks to me as though she has become possessive over your brother. Really it is down to him now to talk to his wife about it but he may not want to rock the boat.

These things do happen sometimes in families unfortunately. My mother didn't speak to her sister for eleven years after having a minor row over a suitcase (I don't know the details, it was before my time). Said sister lived down the road to us with her daughter and son in law. When I was a child, if we were out and saw any of them walking towards us we ignored and if they were visiting grandma who lived nearby with another of my aunts, we didn't go there on that day. My mum also fell out with a nephew and they never spoke again. It's horrible and so pointless.

All you can do is move on and live your life, Huxley, enjoy your family and hope for the best. They are the losers!

She sounds unhinged. Even before the sudden death of her dad

Who worried about a newborn baby at a wedding? Especially if it's the groom's nephew

Totally odd behaviour

I also read between the lines of these posts to that age-old golden child versus scapegoat dynamic.

Of course, this conclusion could be wrong. But the father's behaviour to the OP and her brother, going by much of the information given in her posts, bears a lot of the hallmarks of one.

If this is the case it gives more sense to the context of DB's and SiL's attitudes during the run-up to their wedding and afterwards.

Did you ask your SIL if she wanted visitors?
I mean, you knew things weren't the same between you yet you took it upon yourself to go round because YOU wanted to offer condolences, did it ever even cross your mind to think about what she might want?

Just my opinion, but it's so overbearing just to turn up at someone's house in the aftermath of a tragic event and then to get upset at her behaviour? You've overstepped in my opinion and her feelings have come out because rightly so she probably couldn't give a fuck at hurting you at this point, she's clearly resentful that you caused stress around her wedding and now you've put your foot in it again but at an even worse time.

100% just leave her be, don't text her and don't ring her because it's really not all about your feelings

My brother relented and allowed all of us to come to his wedding however we chose to only go to the ceremony and he did seem pleased about this.

Is there any chance that he saw this decision as a snub? A bit of a flounce?

On three occasions between birth and wedding my brother had the same conversation about what would happen if the baby cried. It did get a bit heated.

Why and how did it get heated?

Did you not say - well of course we will discreetly and immediately take him outside to minimise any potential disruption?

Why did he ask 3 times?