To feel really stupid & naive

[dryingstuff]

I probably abu but just feel stupid & hurt tbh.

I live in a now popular part of London (it wasn't always so, I moved her when it was a bit crap hence why I could afford it).

Like many parts of London there is lots of amazing primaries but only a few good secondaries which are very oversubscribed. I have/had a really good network of neighbours/school mum friends, our dc are really close & as families we have all spent a lot of time together over the yrs. A few times I have mooted moving away & I've always been strongly discouraged because "our dc will all go to school together", "you're part of the group" "it won't be the same" etc. I've wanted to move for more choice of schools & to free up income. One difference between me & the majority of the group is that we have similar earnings but they have a lot more family money behind them although I guess I didn't realise how much.
Secondary school chat has ramped up & it now transpires that from our group 4 are choosing private school (previously there has always been a negative view on private), one is moving out and is under offer & another one has been tutoring for months for a selective place. It leaves me & 1 other, although she is closer to the secondary & tbh her dd is so bright that she could likely get a place at most schools without too much effort. It feels like the other 6 has discussed all this without us as this all came out in a recent chat. 2 were like "why don't you look at private", "ask family to help". There is no way we could afford private school for 2 dc. Of the 4 choosing it 3 have said gps have offered to help but our gps aren't in that position at all which they don't seem to understand. I guess I feel stupid for thinking we were really all friends & for believing that our dc would actually go to school together. I also feel like an idiot for not looking at tuition or going through with a move.

Exactly this .

I dont understand Brits sometimes. If you have been friends for a long time, it is perfectly reasonable to expect that people who say that they are against private schools dont send their kids to them. It is also reasonable to expect that people who over a time period of many years say things like 'we will stick together' you know actually stick together.

I find it really bizarre that people are suggesting that OP is naive for taking those conversations at face value. Why wouldn't she?

OP, I would feel the same as you. It is abit underhand of them and I'd wonder why they acted in this way.

I realise I am in the minority but to me integrity and trust is important.

They're frenemies and are trying to produce smarter kids than yours.
What nonsense.

Sorry OP but that’s exactly how you are coming across.

A lot of people are keen to say what they think is the nice, right thing. It pays to be very careful about taking what people who seem nice and pleasant say, at face value. If people are a bit quirky or abrasive, they tend to have more integrity, I've found. I live in a catchment with a top primary (It was struggling when we moved here eons ago) The amount of rubbish I have heard from people over the years, 'oh will my child get in, we didn't really think about that' Um, you moved to a house about 10 metres from the school gate when your eldest was a toddler. Or a family with no connections to the area and both parents who work from home trying to convince me they rented a house on this little estate in a fairly dull commuter town for no particular reason. Also, there was a thread on here the other day about someone being upset at what they thought was a general negativity against sending kids to private schools. They did get negativity. It's something some people are very vocal about, so people will often play their cards very close to their chest, unless of course they're social group is generally very pro independent schooling.

I did the opposite of you OP.

I did move away even though some of my child's friends remained at our original school (end of Y3). In fairness, quite a few parents moved at this point-some to different parts of the country/world like us and and some to private. I think that it was difficult to settle back after Covid but that's another thread.

The friends who remain at the original school still talk about "staying together" and applying for the same secondary but yes it is naive. Even if we'd all got in to the same secondary there is no guarantee they'd stay friends. I've seen it myself as a secondary school teacher/y7 form tutor/Head of Year!

Reading your thread has made me feel sad for you but also been so helpful for me. My husband and I made a tough decision to move but we were right to put our family first.

I know you'll be able to get over the disappointment and now focus clearly on the best decision for your family. I'd suggest that if London is all you have ever known and both sets of grandparents are nearby, I'd stay there. I've moved to be near family as I missed them and wanted the support I know they'd offer.

It’s basically wanting to keep up with the Jones’s isn’t it. No one wants to appear they can’t afford what others have got.

Think you’re getting a bit of a hard time here OP! Of course YABU if you decided not to move on the basis of a vague “all our kids will grow up together” sentiment. As others have said the likelihood of all going to the same secondary and remaining close friends is unlikely. I think you know all of that though.

YANBU to feel hurt however. You feel excluded. They’ve done a bit of a 180 on their plans and whilst that’s totally within their gift you feel hurt that they’ve not been open about that. I get that but as others have commented, they will have their reasons. They may feel embarrassed about being anti private and now choosing that. They may feel it insensitive to raise it if they know you can’t afford it. They may be keeping tutoring quiet not to put pressure on the child or to keep the competition away.

I think it can always cause tensions when you have friends with what were similar outlooks and lifestyles and then things change. I’ve had this with friends. Their circumstances have changed and they’ve gone from quite anti private to embracing it and making some fairly tone deaf (but not ill intentioned) comments about us considering it for our kids when that’s not an option for us anyway. I think it can cause you to feel defensive as what you were both going to do now doesn’t appear good enough for them. Equally I think they can also feel a bit embarrassed about their own about turn and see a need to justify it etc. But it’s been my experience that you can ride this out if the friendships are solid enough. It might be better for your kids too. More likely to retain a casual friendship with kids of their parents friends than if they were thrown into school together every day?

It sounds like that regardless of what your friends are doing you intend to stay in London and state educate. If I were you I would focus on what those plans are in terms of potential school options locally and if you are happy with them or would consider a move to another part of London for other options etc.

Re your friends, I’d perhaps use the other excluded friend to vent with in short term. But it doesn’t sound like this is a deal breaker with the other friends. They’ve been a bit tactless perhaps but ultimately this is more about choices they are making for their families rather than about their friendship with you. You could raise the issue of hurt feelings over being excluded if you think you need to clear the air or let it blow over. Or let the friendships slide if you feel this really is a sea change in dynamics.

Ultimately I would separate your children’s education from the dynamics of your friendship group and take it from there.

YABU. KIds rarely keep the same friends in secondary school that they had in primary school. It certainly wasn't a good reason not to move when you wanted to!

they're should be their! eek. I had friendly acquaintances who talked a good game about sending their daughters to the good and convenient comp on our estate. What a surprise when later both enrolled their daughters at the high achieving girls school a few miles away! Actually I wasn't surprised as I have been honing my cynicism skills for quite some years.

tbh I can’t imagine choosing and basing important decisions regarding my child on what my friends are doing. Seems quite illogical to me and they clearly thought the same.

@DyslexiaMum1 that's a could point about covid & all the disruption it caused.

Yes the gps is why we stayed, their support is invaluable.

@Whattodoaboutpox the other friend is German actually & I wonder if it is a cultural thing.

Ultimately I would separate your children’s education from the dynamics of your friendship group and take it from there.

that's a good pov

good - sorry typing from the beach & can't see!

I guess it probably feels a bit dishonest if someone very close to you talks about private schools unfavourably and how nice it will be for your children to be in secondary school together then it transpires that they’ve been secretly having private tuition or looking round private schools. At some point, something changed for them but they chose not to share it with you, despite your previous open chats and despite knowing that you thought that your child would be heading to a state school with theirs.

Some people may argue that they don’t have to share this information with you, and of course they don’t. It’s a family decision, rather than one to be agreed on between friends. But if you freely talked together about schools for so long and then suddenly they go quiet, it seems a bit deliberately duplicitous. Why didn’t they tell you their thoughts had changed, or chat about getting a new tutor, or about school prospectuses etc?

One thing I know as a private tutor is that many parents are extremely secretive about having tutors. They don’t want other parents to know their child is getting help or which schools they are targeting because they view it as competition. Could there be an element of that? The only other thing I can think of is that because they had the finances, they didn’t want to rub it in your face by talking about it more than was necessary.

I do think it’s fair for you to feel a bit upset.

The OP @dryingstuff is not saying she based her life decisions on what her friends do. She also has not objected to either private schools or moving house.

She IS saying that she feels disappointed as what she thought to be true based on what they had told her (as good friends over several years) turned out to not be true. I understand thats how many Brits operate and indeed the answers on this thread supports this. People think its the OP who is unreasonable, because she trusted what her good friends had told her.

Utterly bonkers

^ Also, I do wonder how a small group of them branched off and all seemed to know about the private schools without sharing it with the remaining two of you. That’s so deliberate that I do wonder if it’s about them thinking that your finances would make it impossible, and their question about GP paying was their clumsy / stupid way of trying to suggest that there was a way you could manage it. Guessing of course, as I don’t know them. But I can’t think why else four people would have this secret little private school thing going for so long when you’re all meant to be good friends!

If I was talking about moving house I would expect my friends to go 'oh interesting, where are you thinking' or 'shame, i'd miss you but of course you need to do whats right for kids. We are probably going private/might also move/staying put/no idea yet.

I would NOT expect them to go'No!!!! Don't move, please stay here we need you!!! The kids need your ds/dd/othergender!!!

And then move🤷‍♀️

Yep

@Whattodoaboutpox thank you, some of the responses have really confused me! I clearly do have a lot to learn.

I moved out of London many years ago. We didn’t discuss our move until we’d exchanged contracts. We told local friends we were moving because of work opportunities and ‘a better quality of life’. We were moving into an area with MUCH better state schools. I didn’t mention secondary schools to any friends, but I’m sure they knew exactly why we moved! Some London friends stayed in contact but most didn’t and we made new friends in our local area.

The other thing to think about is that people change their mind also once secondary school starts. I have two left-wing friends who are totally pro-comprehensive education whose children had a very hard time in their respective schools and both chose eventually, a couple of years in to move them. Entirely justifiably I think. I had one in comp and one in selective grammar, both had their advantages and disadvantages.

I can't imagine where you live in London where everyone goes to the same primary then all to the same secondary- I guess there's a feeder system and you all discussed it and then some jumped out. Entirely predictable, but you can still be friends with them, and your children can to (although they may drift a lot).

One of my children went where all her friends went bar one and they's all fallen out by the end of year 7 and for the most part separated off and haven't kept the old friendships.

That’s so deliberate that I do wonder if it’s about them thinking that your finances would make it impossible, and their question about GP paying was their clumsy / stupid way of trying to suggest that there was a way you could manage it.

It could be some of that I guess. I do think there is a misplaced belief that my gps can & will help financially. The suggestion of gps paying for things has come up before eg talking about renovations or holidays, we have similar jobs/incomes but have to save for those things. My parents do have an expensive London home but again in my culture dc tend to support parents as they get older as opposed to the other way around. I wouldn't even begrudge my friends getting parental help and it's been mentioned before eg house deposits. I am lucky to get physical help.

I should have said chose to move them from comp to private, even though both of them were totally ideologically against private until their children had problems in state.

It’s a shock and sad when you are treated by others in a way you would never ever treat them.

@Apairofsparklingeyes that's interesting, why did you feel you couldn't discuss it with friends? I specifically did discuss moving for more school options.