Should we let DD2 come to meal?

[Funkyslippers]

DD2 (14) accidentally left the key in the front door when she came in today. OH noticed when he came in the house not long after but she is frequently careless (leaving windows open when she goes out etc). She refused to take responsibility or apologise, reasoning that nobody took the key, nothing bad happened, so it's all fine. We explained that someone could have easily taken the key. He's now saying she can't come out for a meal with us tonight, also with DD1 (19). She's v upset but still refusing to apologise but I don't like going out for a nice meal and leaving her at home miserable. Wwyd?

And the natural consequence for refusing to take responsibility for your actions is to be given the time to consider your actions and why it was wrong. If the rest of the family are going out to dinner then you don't get to join them until you can be responsible enough to take responsibility for your actions.

I would not be "treating" my DD to a meal out if she was being defiant and refusing to accept the consequence of her actions, she would be staying at home until she was ready to discuss it maturely, and if that meant she missed a family meal out in the meantime, well that's her prerogative as she knows what she has to do in order to join us.

My friend's kid was 'frequently careless', turns out they had adhd. Don't be so quick to punish people who have different ways of thinking. It's not always their fault. Just be nice.

I don’t know if she should be going to dinner or not but I wonder if she feels some kind of shame around being so absent-minded and that’s why she is refusing to back down? She’s only 14 but if it persists into adulthood it can become a problem. I’ve lived with the kind of people who are constantly doing things like that, and it does make the house feel less safe. I am naturally absent minded , but I worked really hard not to do things like that so as not to compromise anyone’s safety. Interestingly when I lived with people I managed but since I now live solo i do occasionally forget to lock doors etc. basically when I was in flatshares or living with family my consideration for others managed to keep my carelessness in check.

She’s still young but hopefully she develops that consideration for others very soon. I don’t think the mistake is the main issue but her attitude towards it is. If she can’t acknowledge things it’s more difficult to change.

OTT. I’ve done it before. Imagine if my husband told me I couldn’t go for a meal until I apologised 👀

There's something really unpleasant about backing someone into a corner and punishing them until they say what you want them to say.

A forced apology is meaningless.

Personally, I’d let it go if she accepts that it is something to be careful of in future. If she can’t accept that, the key should be confiscated.

I wouldn’t stop her coming to the meal though

Exactly. I was frequently clumsy and my ex h used to yell and shout at me when I dropped things.

Turns out I have a rare neurological condition that makes me clumsy when I am stressed, unwell or tired (among other things)

My lovely Dh(even before my diagnosis)just helps me tidy up the mess and gives me a hug.

Funnily enough I drop less living with him than I did with exH.

Your DD sounds like me at her age. I am frustratingly clumsy and appear careless but on the inside I was just overwhelmed at my attention deficit. Punishing her won't do anything but make her resent you. HELP her come up with ways to manage these issues. Get a hook for her keys and have a post it on the back of the door to remind her to check for keys and check the windows are closed.

Dh does this. Does my head in. Especially when it's our fault he can't find his keys.

I never do it, nor ds, in spite of us being chaotic and forgetful everywhere else.

Being bollocked for being careless as a child resonates though. And I really, really tried not to be.
Your dh is a dick. I still feel the injustice decades later.

But that's not the same thing ... The same thing would be if you frequently dropped things, had been asked to be more careful and then went on to drop someone's birthday cake through carelessness and then refused to apologise.

Punishment is not going to stop an accident happening again in future, but it might make the DD more mindful of her decisions and mean an accident is less likely to happen in the first place.

So does she have to beg?

And just to add my absent mindedness is linked to being ND but (as an adult) I don’t think that gives me a pass to put the lives of others in danger. I lived with someone constantly leaving the door unlocked and we lived in a high crime area. She had ADHD but I made very clear that she better take whatever measures she needs to ensure she doesn’t forget or I’d be moving out and things immediately improved.

OPs daughter is a teen so slightly different but in a few years time she will be a young adult and will need to take more responsibility. I wouldn’t have been best pleased as an 18 year old if my student flatshare was burgled because a flatmate forgot to remove her. Whatever diagnosis they have wouldn’t have replaced my possessions or made me feel safe at home again after such an incident.

Well yeah, she's 14.

God, Have you never made a mistake?

At this point I can’t imagine the whole family going out to dinner would be all that pleasant anyway. Nor am I a fan of walking back on a punishment.

If it were me and I was considering walking back on the dinner out thing I’d give her a choice…

A- She’s allowed to dinner but no attitude or grumpiness and another punishment is accepted like no key or extra work around the house
B- She stays home while the rest of you go out.

I don’t agree with the other posters who would ‘tra la La it’s nothing serious’ in this situation. No the key thing in itself is not the worst infraction in the world… but the brushing it off as a non event when her dad clearly signaled it was serious is the problem.

Given I did the same thing today but on the way OUT of the house (so left the house empty and locked but with the key in the door), I think you're being way too harsh .

NO! she needs to learn! What happens when she goes off to UNI/ college/ living on her own??? ( I should know I have one DD who is mid 20s and STILL does this!!!)

I would never back someone into a corner to force an apology but my DD knows that if she makes a mistake then if she owns it and apologises then there will be a natural consequence and we move on eg she breaks something through carelessness after being told to be careful then she has to pay for it, and if that means she can't do something with her friends that weekend as she doesn't have enough pocket money left, then that's a natural consequence of her behaviour as opposed to a punishment of me grounding her.

If she refuses to accept responsibility, lies or is otherwise disrespectful then she not only has the natural consequence of her action but also a punishment on top. The punishment is not for the mistake itself, it's for her attitude after the fact.

I will not force an apology out of her, but until she makes one then I will not be offering treats or rewards - a nice meal out would be a treat in our house so I'd cook dinner for us both as normal but any meals out would be cancelled for DD.

She is 14, she will make mistakes. Who is he to say she can’t enjoy a family meal out?
Tell him to f-off

I'd either put a note on the inside of the door to remind her to take her key out, or attach her key to her bag/wallet so she physically can't leave the key in the door.

Punishments involving food are nasty.

I still have a post it on my back door saying 'DD1 TAKE THE DAMN KEY OUT' and she's 25 and doesn't even live here any more.

Overreaction.

@Funkyslippers what consequences does she have when she's careless in general? You obviously need to have something that makes her think about leaving windows and stuff open.

Punishing someone for making a genuine mistake is just unpleasant behaviour.

It also won't stop them from making the same mistake again - because it was just that, a mistake. They didn't do it on purpose, or deliberately, or out of spite - it was an accident.

Besides, in my experience, being told off for dropping a glass or spilling coffee only makes me more likely to do it again in the future - because I'm nervous and that makes me even more accident prone.

I left my keys in the door last week.

I noticed because I couldn't lock the door from the inside but I always leave them in the lock so I don't lock myself out when unloading the car (DH was with me and closed the door - he didn't spot them either)

DD should accept responsibility. If not, then take the key away.

It's quite simple - the house needs to be secure.

DH is being a bit heavy handed, but if she's been a PITA or done something else to piss him off, it's understandable.

Parenting courses teach punishment linked to crime - like no key until trusted. No family meal due to no key is too unkind.
also google inattentive adhd and see if that applies to her as commonly missed in teen girls.