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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to live with my child again?

325 replies

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 11:53

This an attention seeking, goady title, sorry, but I've posted about this situation before and got no responses so I'm deliberately braving it in here. It's likely to be long in order to avoid drip feeding, but I'm happy to clarify details I may forget.

As mentioned, I've posted of this before, and I've namechanged because this is outing and I don't fancy the rest of my posting history being attached to this issue.

Long story short, some time ago, earlier this year, my eldest DS had some sort of meltdown. For context, DS is (now) 16, he turned 16 a few weeks ago. His father and I split before he was 2. Ex was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me. I have, however, been extremely happily married to my now DH for 10 years and we have 3 younger DC together: 1 teen and 2 primary aged. DS1 always lived with me/us, and called DH dad through his own choice, though he knows he is SD and has had mostly regular contact with his father.

DS1 was diagnosed with Asperger's aged 5 and has struggled socially and educationally comensurate with this, though he is academically very capable. He is deeply embarassed by his diagnosis, despite our best attempts to destigmatise. We have always accepted and loved him the way he is, however he has also always been an extremely difficult child - beyond that expected with an ASD diagnosis. He is manipulative, deceitful, has been violent when younger, has a history of stealing and of making false accusations of abuse/discrimination in order to deflect from his own misdemeanours - this has been aimed at multiple adults over the years: teachers, step-parents and parents. Living with him has for some years been fraught with tension, due in part to us being on edge waiting for him to do something anti-social, and in part to our fear of enforcing any sort of boundaries because, for many years now, this has resulted in false accusations of physical abuse. He has never been abused, physically or otherwise.

Most recently, I was the one chosen to feel his wrath. It's never been me before. After several incidents at school regarding violence and their suspicion of him vaping/selling vapes on site (I've since found out he is/was, but they've not been able to catch him in the act) I removed his phone. I don't routinely check my teens phones as feel at 15/16 they deserve some privacy and we have solid restrictions in place on them, but he was extremely angry that I'd dared to take it to look as this is 'controlling' He responded by leaving the house at 11pm and going to his Dad's, where he then reported me to the police for an 'assault' that is entirely fabricated. I was arrested the morning after, held for 12 hours and interviewed under caution. I was then released on bail, with conditions that state I am not able to have any direct or indirect contact. This restriction seemed awful at first, but has possibly been a blessing in disguise.

As my username suggests, I am a teacher - well, still a student. I'm half way through SCITT. This investigation has meant I've not been allowed in any schools at all, my training is on hold. I've had to go on medication for anxiety and developed PTSD and agoraphobia. It's been horrendous. DS1 has been placed on a CiN plan whilst at his Dad's - our DC here have no SS involvement at all. It's now approaching my bail date, and DS1 has been messaging DS2 on snapchat. This means there's no trace of their conversation, but DS2 says that DS1 is miserable. He hates his life at his Dad's, he hates his SM and he desperately wants to come home. He claims that 'when' the police ask him if he wants to proceed with prosecution of me, he is going to decline (I'm well aware that's not how this works, but he genuinely believes he can choose whether to press charges or not: too much American TV/films). He has asked DS2 to ask DH and I if he can come home.

So, AIBU to feel like I have to say that no, this can't happen? My youngest DS has ASD too and has found this life change very difficult already. My DD is younger still and I am loathe to model acceptance of such coercive behaviour in the home. DS2 doen't deserve to be used as a go-between (I have not responded to/via DS2 at all and won't do so. I also wouldn't stop him talking to his brother though). My career may well be in tatters before it's even begun and I don't think I could ever relax and feel sure that I won't face this sort of 'punishment' from DS1 again. I've missed him terribly the last few weeks, but I've also slept so much better and I don't feel a constant anxiety when the phone rings of 'what now?' My SCITT have been fantastically supportive and will welcome me back to finish the course when the investigation is concluded with NFA, I would be terrified constantly that it would be ruined again. Not to mention my DH who has been an incredible support, but there's no denying he's found this extremely difficult. Without asking, I know he'll support my decision making either way, but I also know he would also be inclined to want to say no, though he'd be loathe to say it out loud. In short, I think we've all been through enough over the last decade.

But... I'm still DS1's Mum. The thought of him being miserable hurts deeply. I obviously want to make that go away. I just have no idea what to do. Am I being selfish?

Appreciate all viewpoints, but please don't be deliberately unkind, I am still very delicate. Thank you.

OP posts:
strawberry2017 · 14/04/2023 17:33

If this is his behaviour at 16 then he's going to be utterly terrifying as an adult.

Liorae · 14/04/2023 17:38

strawberry2017 · 14/04/2023 17:33

If this is his behaviour at 16 then he's going to be utterly terrifying as an adult.

He's already utterly terrifying.

BringtheJury · 14/04/2023 17:39

@strawberry2017 not necessarily, my child was similar and is totally different as an adult.

raincamepouringdown · 14/04/2023 17:39

Ktime · 14/04/2023 12:20

YANBU. I would not have him back, he’s 16, not 6 and he made his choice.

Prioritise your younger DC and keep them safe.

If you have DS1 back, I suspect his behaviour will escalate and become violent because he will feel emboldened by his return into the fold.

This.

Agree 100%. He's made his choice. He's clever; he knew exactly what he was doing and how it could destroy your life. And he still did it.

He wouldn't be entering my home again, and I wouldn't be seeing him without witnesses for a very, very long time.

He's 16. His dad's turn to deal with him full time methinks.

strawberry2017 · 14/04/2023 17:42

BringtheJury · 14/04/2023 17:39

@strawberry2017 not necessarily, my child was similar and is totally different as an adult.

That makes me very relieved to here x

dutchyoriginal · 14/04/2023 17:42

I would reframe/rephrase what is happening here. Not letting DS1 sleep/live under your roof does not mean you are stepping away from him at all.
You've said you have had suspicions of other problems/disorders in addition to his ASD diagnosis for some time, but could not get CAMHS to look at this, and your Ex did not want to cooperate in parenting him either. Now, with DS1 living at his dad etc., SS is trying to get him further diagnosed and his dad actually needs to step up in parenting. Both are (probably) positive for your son in the long run. I'd say you can also be his parent and help him (after you have been cleared) when he lives outside of your home.

Additionally, given that DS1 so far hasn't shown any remorse and hasn't admitted he has lied, he is likely to repeat the behaviour in some way in the future. He has already "exhausted" his chances with your DH, his SM1 and you. Given DS2's need to be squeaky clean for his hobby, he might become DS1's next target then. You need to protect DS2 and your other children from a very real possibility of additional harm (on top of what they and you have already gone through).

strawberry2017 · 14/04/2023 17:42

*hear

cansu · 14/04/2023 17:49

I would say to ds2 that no decisions can be made while this false allegation is investigated. When it is resolved I think sadly you have to protect yourself. I would not accept him back immediately. He needs to understand the weight of these actions.

LuckyPeonies · 14/04/2023 17:51

Sorry, but being wrongfully accused and, as a result, arrested would be the end for me. He is old enough to know better and I would never, ever trust him again. I would not only refuse to ever live with him again, I would make sure I am never alone with him again, completely distance myself from him, and likely go NC.

Kanaloa · 14/04/2023 17:58

Quitelikeit · 14/04/2023 17:31

how about you start separating the behaviour from the child?

I have not read the thread but have read the OPs responses

This child is being demonised here - there’s a lot of character assassination going on well believe me the child got this behaviour from somewhere

You have taken no responsibility at all for the way your son has turned out yet claim he is like his father?

Yet you say his father is not emotionally abusive to
him?

believe me when I say your own house isn’t perfect because if it was then your son would not be presenting with this behaviour

I understand the enormity of what he has done and that he has a history of making malicious allegations but don’t overlook your own part in that because as long as you do then you won’t be able to reflect on what has truly gone wrong for your son

People always say things like this but in real life you cannot ‘separate the behaviour from the person.’ What you do is who you are. If you spend your life abusing and bullying others, you’re an abusive bully. If you spend your life volunteering at a cat charity and helping kids learn how to read you’re a nice person.

It might sound mean but I told my kids that from the beginning. If you do mostly mean things people will say you’re a mean kid. If you do mostly nice things they’ll think you’re nice. That’s how we know what the person is, by what they do.

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 18:10

Quitelikeit · 14/04/2023 17:31

how about you start separating the behaviour from the child?

I have not read the thread but have read the OPs responses

This child is being demonised here - there’s a lot of character assassination going on well believe me the child got this behaviour from somewhere

You have taken no responsibility at all for the way your son has turned out yet claim he is like his father?

Yet you say his father is not emotionally abusive to
him?

believe me when I say your own house isn’t perfect because if it was then your son would not be presenting with this behaviour

I understand the enormity of what he has done and that he has a history of making malicious allegations but don’t overlook your own part in that because as long as you do then you won’t be able to reflect on what has truly gone wrong for your son

You don’t need to verbally beat me up, I already do that enough myself. I blame myself for all of it. I blame myself for not completely cutting his father out, even though I know I made the decisions I did with DS’s best interests at heart. I beat myself up for not being able to ‘nurture’ away all the damage that had been done when he was tiny. I beat myself up for allowing myself to have a baby with an abuser, even though I was just a child when I met him and fell pregnant. I blame myself for all of it. I will never absolve myself of responsibility.

But I have spent my life advocating for him, trying desperately to have safe and reasonably boundaries in place, only to see them undermined every single time. I cut off contact with Ex as soon as I could in order to prevent that happening anymore. DH and I model a healthy relationship, and have DC who have never displayed these behaviours despite seeing their DB doing so. I sought help - no I begged for help from CAMHS, from school, from SS. I tried to self refer, I accessed support groups. I’ve read books, been on parenting courses, spent hours researching different parenting methods online and attempting to make them work for DS. I did a whole degree focusing on inclusion and ASD to learn and attempt to start a career in helping children like DS1.

I honestly don’t know what else I could have done. But I will always blame myself.

I have 3 other DC I need to keep it together for though. I need to minimise the damage done to them. I need to keep them safe.

They are all happy, healthy children. Nobody has any concerns about them (beyond DS3’s ASD, but this is well managed with his EHCP and an incredible school). They are visibly calmer at home now though.

OP posts:
WhatToDo2023 · 14/04/2023 18:13

What an awful thing for him to do. Even once it's all over, I think you cannot consider letting him come home. You have other children to consider who need to come first. It doesn't even matter if he expected things to go so wrong, he's dangerous. He could ruin your younger children's lives. You can and should try to keep the relationship and try to help him find accommodation but he can't be allowed home.

Daleksatemyshed · 14/04/2023 18:30

I'm so sorry Op, this must all have been horrendous for you and your family. Sadly your eldest DS seems to be a danger to everyone in the family with his unfounded accusations and even when the Police matter is settled I just don't see how you can let him come home again. Every time he felt crossed by anyone you'd be waiting for him to do the same again and one day it could be your other DC's turn.

ForTheSakeOfThePenguin · 14/04/2023 18:33

Quitelikeit · 14/04/2023 17:31

how about you start separating the behaviour from the child?

I have not read the thread but have read the OPs responses

This child is being demonised here - there’s a lot of character assassination going on well believe me the child got this behaviour from somewhere

You have taken no responsibility at all for the way your son has turned out yet claim he is like his father?

Yet you say his father is not emotionally abusive to
him?

believe me when I say your own house isn’t perfect because if it was then your son would not be presenting with this behaviour

I understand the enormity of what he has done and that he has a history of making malicious allegations but don’t overlook your own part in that because as long as you do then you won’t be able to reflect on what has truly gone wrong for your son

Are you on glue?

She is the parent who has been there, dealing with all this shit for 16 years. Do you really think for a moment she is demonising her son? She could have given up on him looooong time ago.

You have had a very protected life if you think that everything can be cured with “love”. Trying to put this mum down when she is down already is something you should be ashamed of.

Merangutan · 14/04/2023 18:35

I totally support your view here, OP. You must look after your own well being and say no.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 14/04/2023 18:39

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 13:11

See this is my gut reaction, but that seems very unfair for DS2, who hasn't done anything wrong and is very responsible with SM. He's a fundamentally good egg. I wouldn't want him to feel punished for something that isn't his fault. If we remove that, then would it move to instagram? Then if we removed that would DS1 find him on Whatsapp? DS2 doesn't deserve to have all his ways of communicating with his peers cut off, and if I do all that, do I become the 'controlling' mother I'm accused of being (by DS1)?

Are a lot of DS2 comms with his pals on Snapchat?

Would he agree to move these to WhatsApp /IG.. And if DS1 finds him there.? ...good! As there will be then be a record/ 'paper' trail.... If he doesn't contact ds2 there... Ot would seem intentional that his mode of contact disappears...

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 18:42

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 14/04/2023 18:39

Are a lot of DS2 comms with his pals on Snapchat?

Would he agree to move these to WhatsApp /IG.. And if DS1 finds him there.? ...good! As there will be then be a record/ 'paper' trail.... If he doesn't contact ds2 there... Ot would seem intentional that his mode of contact disappears...

Thank you. DS2 has now blocked DS1. If there’s any further attempt at Snapchat contact despite that, he’s agreed to remove the app until the police case is closed.

OP posts:
lala2023 · 14/04/2023 18:49

@Quitelikeit

You seem incredibly naive, judgemental and ignorant

A trio of cuntishness if you will

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 14/04/2023 18:56

OP... Ij amongst all this horror you're managing hideous levels of stress.

Please ask your GP to refer you for psychological help. These stressors are massively more than is usual.

I wonder also if women's Aid/refuge could be helpful for you - given the coercive nature of your DS 1 and ex partner?

If you haven't seen, there's some brilliant YouTube channels by psychologists who are expert on Narcissism /toxic relationships...

Dr Ramani

Dr Les Carter

Please look after yourself!

I wish you well with completing your training, you'll be an epic practitioner with all your compassion and this experience to draw on!

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 14/04/2023 19:02

I hope that this is over (the legal part anyway) very soon.

You are dealing with this in a very humble way but taking the tough decisions and considering what is best for everyone.

You sound likely to be a great teacher.

Dowellif · 14/04/2023 19:05

Quitelikeit · 14/04/2023 17:31

how about you start separating the behaviour from the child?

I have not read the thread but have read the OPs responses

This child is being demonised here - there’s a lot of character assassination going on well believe me the child got this behaviour from somewhere

You have taken no responsibility at all for the way your son has turned out yet claim he is like his father?

Yet you say his father is not emotionally abusive to
him?

believe me when I say your own house isn’t perfect because if it was then your son would not be presenting with this behaviour

I understand the enormity of what he has done and that he has a history of making malicious allegations but don’t overlook your own part in that because as long as you do then you won’t be able to reflect on what has truly gone wrong for your son

Biscuit
CaveatmTOR · 14/04/2023 19:10

Quitelikeit · 14/04/2023 17:31

how about you start separating the behaviour from the child?

I have not read the thread but have read the OPs responses

This child is being demonised here - there’s a lot of character assassination going on well believe me the child got this behaviour from somewhere

You have taken no responsibility at all for the way your son has turned out yet claim he is like his father?

Yet you say his father is not emotionally abusive to
him?

believe me when I say your own house isn’t perfect because if it was then your son would not be presenting with this behaviour

I understand the enormity of what he has done and that he has a history of making malicious allegations but don’t overlook your own part in that because as long as you do then you won’t be able to reflect on what has truly gone wrong for your son

I disagree with this. I had the exact same raising as my sister but she is one of the most selfish, self centred and dangerous people I have ever met. I have been NC from her for twenty years as she makes my flesh crawl. She was vicious as a toddler, utterly ghastly as a child and foul as a teen. As an adult she has no friends and unless she can gain from an action, she does nothing at all. She was verbally abusive to our parents and physically abusive to our mother who had MH issues. Her entire life she has done nothing but cheat, lie, swindle and abuse all those around her. She has inherited this from her maternal grandmother. Our parents were sweet kind and hardworking people. Vile ghastly horrific person. Her husband lives in the massive man cave he built himself about four years ago.

CaveatmTOR · 14/04/2023 19:12

Luckily you have the behaviour of the other children to make you realise they are not all the same.

Wiccan · 14/04/2023 19:13

Quitelikeit · 14/04/2023 17:31

how about you start separating the behaviour from the child?

I have not read the thread but have read the OPs responses

This child is being demonised here - there’s a lot of character assassination going on well believe me the child got this behaviour from somewhere

You have taken no responsibility at all for the way your son has turned out yet claim he is like his father?

Yet you say his father is not emotionally abusive to
him?

believe me when I say your own house isn’t perfect because if it was then your son would not be presenting with this behaviour

I understand the enormity of what he has done and that he has a history of making malicious allegations but don’t overlook your own part in that because as long as you do then you won’t be able to reflect on what has truly gone wrong for your son

Jesus , this is the type of attitude OP and others including my self have always had to endure " it must be something you have done to your child for them to behave this way "? . Well some of us have done everything it takes to give our kids what they need to be well adjusted loving people. For that one child / adult child it will never be enough trust me I've done the leg work and so has the OP . I swear my DD would be quite happy for me to take my own life then she would be able to get attention and sympathy for that too . You really have no idea !

Wiccan · 14/04/2023 19:17

CaveatmTOR · 14/04/2023 19:10

I disagree with this. I had the exact same raising as my sister but she is one of the most selfish, self centred and dangerous people I have ever met. I have been NC from her for twenty years as she makes my flesh crawl. She was vicious as a toddler, utterly ghastly as a child and foul as a teen. As an adult she has no friends and unless she can gain from an action, she does nothing at all. She was verbally abusive to our parents and physically abusive to our mother who had MH issues. Her entire life she has done nothing but cheat, lie, swindle and abuse all those around her. She has inherited this from her maternal grandmother. Our parents were sweet kind and hardworking people. Vile ghastly horrific person. Her husband lives in the massive man cave he built himself about four years ago.

Yep this is my daughter 🥺 the similar behaviour it's terrifying.

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