To not want to live with my child again?

[Namechangeteach]

This an attention seeking, goady title, sorry, but I've posted about this situation before and got no responses so I'm deliberately braving it in here. It's likely to be long in order to avoid drip feeding, but I'm happy to clarify details I may forget.

As mentioned, I've posted of this before, and I've namechanged because this is outing and I don't fancy the rest of my posting history being attached to this issue.

Long story short, some time ago, earlier this year, my eldest DS had some sort of meltdown. For context, DS is (now) 16, he turned 16 a few weeks ago. His father and I split before he was 2. Ex was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me. I have, however, been extremely happily married to my now DH for 10 years and we have 3 younger DC together: 1 teen and 2 primary aged. DS1 always lived with me/us, and called DH dad through his own choice, though he knows he is SD and has had mostly regular contact with his father.

DS1 was diagnosed with Asperger's aged 5 and has struggled socially and educationally comensurate with this, though he is academically very capable. He is deeply embarassed by his diagnosis, despite our best attempts to destigmatise. We have always accepted and loved him the way he is, however he has also always been an extremely difficult child - beyond that expected with an ASD diagnosis. He is manipulative, deceitful, has been violent when younger, has a history of stealing and of making false accusations of abuse/discrimination in order to deflect from his own misdemeanours - this has been aimed at multiple adults over the years: teachers, step-parents and parents. Living with him has for some years been fraught with tension, due in part to us being on edge waiting for him to do something anti-social, and in part to our fear of enforcing any sort of boundaries because, for many years now, this has resulted in false accusations of physical abuse. He has never been abused, physically or otherwise.

Most recently, I was the one chosen to feel his wrath. It's never been me before. After several incidents at school regarding violence and their suspicion of him vaping/selling vapes on site (I've since found out he is/was, but they've not been able to catch him in the act) I removed his phone. I don't routinely check my teens phones as feel at 15/16 they deserve some privacy and we have solid restrictions in place on them, but he was extremely angry that I'd dared to take it to look as this is 'controlling' He responded by leaving the house at 11pm and going to his Dad's, where he then reported me to the police for an 'assault' that is entirely fabricated. I was arrested the morning after, held for 12 hours and interviewed under caution. I was then released on bail, with conditions that state I am not able to have any direct or indirect contact. This restriction seemed awful at first, but has possibly been a blessing in disguise.

As my username suggests, I am a teacher - well, still a student. I'm half way through SCITT. This investigation has meant I've not been allowed in any schools at all, my training is on hold. I've had to go on medication for anxiety and developed PTSD and agoraphobia. It's been horrendous. DS1 has been placed on a CiN plan whilst at his Dad's - our DC here have no SS involvement at all. It's now approaching my bail date, and DS1 has been messaging DS2 on snapchat. This means there's no trace of their conversation, but DS2 says that DS1 is miserable. He hates his life at his Dad's, he hates his SM and he desperately wants to come home. He claims that 'when' the police ask him if he wants to proceed with prosecution of me, he is going to decline (I'm well aware that's not how this works, but he genuinely believes he can choose whether to press charges or not: too much American TV/films). He has asked DS2 to ask DH and I if he can come home.

So, AIBU to feel like I have to say that no, this can't happen? My youngest DS has ASD too and has found this life change very difficult already. My DD is younger still and I am loathe to model acceptance of such coercive behaviour in the home. DS2 doen't deserve to be used as a go-between (I have not responded to/via DS2 at all and won't do so. I also wouldn't stop him talking to his brother though). My career may well be in tatters before it's even begun and I don't think I could ever relax and feel sure that I won't face this sort of 'punishment' from DS1 again. I've missed him terribly the last few weeks, but I've also slept so much better and I don't feel a constant anxiety when the phone rings of 'what now?' My SCITT have been fantastically supportive and will welcome me back to finish the course when the investigation is concluded with NFA, I would be terrified constantly that it would be ruined again. Not to mention my DH who has been an incredible support, but there's no denying he's found this extremely difficult. Without asking, I know he'll support my decision making either way, but I also know he would also be inclined to want to say no, though he'd be loathe to say it out loud. In short, I think we've all been through enough over the last decade.

But... I'm still DS1's Mum. The thought of him being miserable hurts deeply. I obviously want to make that go away. I just have no idea what to do. Am I being selfish?

Appreciate all viewpoints, but please don't be deliberately unkind, I am still very delicate. Thank you.

In fact our (autism specialist) Psychologist states that 25% of families experience violence and challenging behaviour from autistic children.

And what percentage of families experience violence and challenging behaviour from NT children, for comparative purposes?

Agreed. However I suspect more of us have experiences like this than some people might expect and there is precious little support for those children and families who are affected.

Maybe some experience that but it's got to be rare. It happens with kids who aren't autistic too, but that's also rare.

This is always the problem with these blinkered discussions.

People say "I know an autistic person who does X" so they extrapolate and then decide all autistic people must be like that, or most, or even a lot. Then they find someone else on the internet who says "I know an autistic person who does X too!", so it validates their logical fallacy in their mind. Then more join in.

And it never occurs to any of them to look at stats or research. Or that X is not part of the diagnostic criteria so unlikely to be any more common in autistic people than others, and that they might just have created an internet vortex of invalid conclusions.

Obviously some autistic people will be arseholes, or violent, or even murders, or a myriad of other things, just like some NT people or some left handed people or some people who are good at cooking (or not) will be. It doesn't mean there's any kind of correlation between those things. But I guess enough of the thread has been dedicated to irrationality and inability to reason logically already so I'll leave this issue here as focusing on how to help the OP. The "murdering knofe wielding" autistics who go around slaughtering people in their beds was really the high point (?!) of the general trend of "intelligent" comments though that really proved the point!!

Also @Namechangeteach did you report the abuse of your ex at the time? No judgement here I want to stress - I never reported my abuser as I knew it would go nowhere - just thinking that if you did and that's on record that he's abusive then it might also help with galvanising SS into taking action to protect your son and offer alternative living options in that there is then evidence that he's not safe where he is and they can't just cop out of helping him by saying "he's with a parent so it's fine".

The problem with the original statement is that it was a blanket statement. Challenging behaviours does not mean parents must all fear for their life and go to bed wondering if they'll make it to morning. Maybe some experience that but it's got to be rare. It happens with kids who aren't autistic too, but that's also rare.

It is true that autistic people are at higher risk of suicide and challenging behaviours. The world is such a challenging place for them, this comes out behaviourally if they don't have other ways to deal with it. Let's not make it harder by portraying them in such extreme ways.

Absolutely. "Challenging behaviour" does not equate to violence. There are well documented higher rates (much higher) of autistic people than NT people. Thirteen times as high for autistic women, which is shocking. I'm not aware of any studies showing autistic people are generally more violent to others than NT people are.

Don't want to align with previous posters, but do want to ensure the difficult experiences of some children and families are not minimised. For stats and discussion of earlier research which includes population comparisons see: Aggressive Behavior Problems in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorders: Prevalence and Correlates in a Large Clinical Sample...https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160737/#R6

Sorry that should say much higher rates of suicide in autistic people than NT people.

There's no evidence I've seen of autistic people being more violent to other people.

@Dowellif oh sure aggressive behaviour problems due to distress, in young children, often undiagnosed or with minimal support.

Big difference between that and saying autistic teens/ adults are more violent than the general population. Prison stats don't seem to show anything to support that at all, quite the opposite.

Or kids with co-morbidities or who are non-verbal or have additional learning difficulties so very frustrated etc etc. But that's not what was being discussed here with kids like OP's son. The idea that everyone should live in fear because an autistic person will come and go all Texas Chainsaw Massacre on them while they're having a peaceful nap is just 🙄😆

Maybe there are cases where autistic challenges go undisclosed. Why is this? Because of stigma, which posts like the original post that sparked all this perpetuate.

I've seen plenty of violence in non-autistic populations too.

Fully support you @WhereHasTheSunshineGone You are spot on.

I was going to suggest BPD and also ADHD because of the poor impulse controls
I do think there is definitely something other than autism going on.

It is a case of testing for other things then if you find that something like ADHD is found where meds are available it will help with the impulsive behaviour and if the impulsive behaviour isn’t there then other things that lead on to ever worsening behaviour don’t happen.

Someone mentioned upthread about how exh awards this type of behaviour with attention

WITH ADHD it is doing something that creates a rush of dopamine. He has learned over the years that if he does something then he has all these people caring for him and the dopamine floods the brain
Do you think your exh has ADHD BPD or both

What?! That’s a gross generalisation.

I just want to say to the posters attacking the OP’s parenting

It is normal for teenage boys to model themselves on their male role model for good or ill. Teenagers often don’t have the rational mindset of objectively analysing their father’s behaviour and seeing their faults, especially when they have mental health problems of their own.

It’s very possible that either directly or indirectly OP’s son has picked up on the father’s behaviour. Very often this behaviour seems to fit into macho stereotypes that are fed to us in films of a strong man, no matter how toxic they are.

OP’s son sounds like he is crying out for help and going about it all wrong. His emotions are probably terrifying him.

Well I have read the thread and can see criticism of the OP in various posts... some really horrible and still not offering a better way of parenting than the ones she has already been applying.

I am with the majority offering heartfelt sympathy and feeling impressed at the way one good mother is coping with the daily impossible!

OP I think you have to put your secure home life first so you can then invest in supporting your son separately. A calm home will help you to do this. Sorry you have to make these tough choices - your son can still come through this. I hope he does for both of you. It isn’t your fault.

THIS 16yo with Asperger's is dangerous. Whether others are or not is beside the point.

Not everyone in this scenario can be protected, so what are the choices? Look after the interests of the OP, her DH and the siblings, or the DS? It's a binary choice, and surely the DS has to be the sacrificial lamb staying with his father, regardless of the consequences of that? Yes it's a brutal choice and harsh. But the OP says the atmosphere in the house is now much better. The siblings have had a taste of a calm house without fear. It would be equally harsh to take that taste away from them.

So sorry you're going through this, you didn't make your son the way he his and shame on anyone who is blaming you.

Hopefully he will settle down as he gets older, and you may be able to have some sort of a relationship with him, but you and the rest of your family don't have to be his punchbag.

I agree, there have been some very horrible people on this thread. Some of us have tried to be constructive though and suggest possible avenues for the OP to get help for her son without her direct involvement; it doesn't have to be a binary choice between him living with her (obviously not appropriate!) or living with his abusive father (also obviously not appropriate given he's abusive).

What I found shocking was the attacks on anybody trying to suggest that other options could be explored and trying to twist their comments (especially mine) into somehow implying we were trying to say the OP should have him come back to live with her, even when my the comments had made clear that obviously that would be a bad idea even if it was legal.

In the end he is still a minor and a vulnerable boy due to his disability, and clearly has some needs for mental health interventions. SS have a duty to him and there are charities and advocacy services that could help to find a third way to resolve the situation by finding him alternative living arrangements without putting the OP or her other children at further risk.

None of my comments were remotely critical of the OP's parenting. Not sure why anybody would be criticising her in this situation. It's a shame though that more posters didn't focus on such practical advice rather than calling her son a "psycho" and having a go at anyone pointing out that he is still and child and it sounds like he is also in desperate need of help.

OP I hope you find a way forward and that the spurious legal allegations are soon dropped, it must be unimaginably stressful.

Also hope Mumsnet have a long overdue review or their moderation policy given they seem to have deleted a number of my posts for defending myself against false accusations from the illiterate claiming I'd said things that are the opposite of my posts, and yet are quite happy to let posts stand claiming that living with someone autistic means being in constant fear of being murdered in your sleep.

This place never ceases to amaze. On some threads in a very positive manner, but sadly quite the opposite on this one. It seems to have attracted many of the worst kind of posters but I hope that OP has got some useful help from the few of us who did provide some suggestions.

Parent of an autistic teen here.

The problem with him just moving back after making such accusations is

A) he could do it again and

B) he'll think that he can say what he likes because words don't have consequences.

I'd be looking at exploring him attending a residential educational setting if he can't stay at his dads.

And if you want at some point some visits if you to his residential but always with a support worker for ds present.

NEVER alone.

What the fuck??

As an autistic person, this is wildly offensive - not to mention completely inaccurate. This does not describe any presentation of autism I've ever known and is much more indicative of a personality or psychiatric disorder.

As an autistic person, this is wildly offensive - not to mention completely inaccurate. This does not describe any presentation of autism I've ever known and is much more indicative of a personality or psychiatric disorder.

It may well be a Co-existing psychiatric/PD, but it's also my experience. My DS is autistic and has exhibited these behaviours. Its incorrect to pin it on autism, but there are absolutely behavioural crossovers. In my experience thought, no one is willing to look beyond the adhd/asd diagnosis.

I have an ASD husband and two children on the spectrum. One child was always a bit fiery as a teenager but nothing resembling being scared of being killed overnight or hurting others. Most of the ASD people I know are employed professionals who don't go in for matricide.

How are you doing OP has this app been sorted out?