To not want to live with my child again?

[Namechangeteach]

This an attention seeking, goady title, sorry, but I've posted about this situation before and got no responses so I'm deliberately braving it in here. It's likely to be long in order to avoid drip feeding, but I'm happy to clarify details I may forget.

As mentioned, I've posted of this before, and I've namechanged because this is outing and I don't fancy the rest of my posting history being attached to this issue.

Long story short, some time ago, earlier this year, my eldest DS had some sort of meltdown. For context, DS is (now) 16, he turned 16 a few weeks ago. His father and I split before he was 2. Ex was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me. I have, however, been extremely happily married to my now DH for 10 years and we have 3 younger DC together: 1 teen and 2 primary aged. DS1 always lived with me/us, and called DH dad through his own choice, though he knows he is SD and has had mostly regular contact with his father.

DS1 was diagnosed with Asperger's aged 5 and has struggled socially and educationally comensurate with this, though he is academically very capable. He is deeply embarassed by his diagnosis, despite our best attempts to destigmatise. We have always accepted and loved him the way he is, however he has also always been an extremely difficult child - beyond that expected with an ASD diagnosis. He is manipulative, deceitful, has been violent when younger, has a history of stealing and of making false accusations of abuse/discrimination in order to deflect from his own misdemeanours - this has been aimed at multiple adults over the years: teachers, step-parents and parents. Living with him has for some years been fraught with tension, due in part to us being on edge waiting for him to do something anti-social, and in part to our fear of enforcing any sort of boundaries because, for many years now, this has resulted in false accusations of physical abuse. He has never been abused, physically or otherwise.

Most recently, I was the one chosen to feel his wrath. It's never been me before. After several incidents at school regarding violence and their suspicion of him vaping/selling vapes on site (I've since found out he is/was, but they've not been able to catch him in the act) I removed his phone. I don't routinely check my teens phones as feel at 15/16 they deserve some privacy and we have solid restrictions in place on them, but he was extremely angry that I'd dared to take it to look as this is 'controlling' He responded by leaving the house at 11pm and going to his Dad's, where he then reported me to the police for an 'assault' that is entirely fabricated. I was arrested the morning after, held for 12 hours and interviewed under caution. I was then released on bail, with conditions that state I am not able to have any direct or indirect contact. This restriction seemed awful at first, but has possibly been a blessing in disguise.

As my username suggests, I am a teacher - well, still a student. I'm half way through SCITT. This investigation has meant I've not been allowed in any schools at all, my training is on hold. I've had to go on medication for anxiety and developed PTSD and agoraphobia. It's been horrendous. DS1 has been placed on a CiN plan whilst at his Dad's - our DC here have no SS involvement at all. It's now approaching my bail date, and DS1 has been messaging DS2 on snapchat. This means there's no trace of their conversation, but DS2 says that DS1 is miserable. He hates his life at his Dad's, he hates his SM and he desperately wants to come home. He claims that 'when' the police ask him if he wants to proceed with prosecution of me, he is going to decline (I'm well aware that's not how this works, but he genuinely believes he can choose whether to press charges or not: too much American TV/films). He has asked DS2 to ask DH and I if he can come home.

So, AIBU to feel like I have to say that no, this can't happen? My youngest DS has ASD too and has found this life change very difficult already. My DD is younger still and I am loathe to model acceptance of such coercive behaviour in the home. DS2 doen't deserve to be used as a go-between (I have not responded to/via DS2 at all and won't do so. I also wouldn't stop him talking to his brother though). My career may well be in tatters before it's even begun and I don't think I could ever relax and feel sure that I won't face this sort of 'punishment' from DS1 again. I've missed him terribly the last few weeks, but I've also slept so much better and I don't feel a constant anxiety when the phone rings of 'what now?' My SCITT have been fantastically supportive and will welcome me back to finish the course when the investigation is concluded with NFA, I would be terrified constantly that it would be ruined again. Not to mention my DH who has been an incredible support, but there's no denying he's found this extremely difficult. Without asking, I know he'll support my decision making either way, but I also know he would also be inclined to want to say no, though he'd be loathe to say it out loud. In short, I think we've all been through enough over the last decade.

But... I'm still DS1's Mum. The thought of him being miserable hurts deeply. I obviously want to make that go away. I just have no idea what to do. Am I being selfish?

Appreciate all viewpoints, but please don't be deliberately unkind, I am still very delicate. Thank you.

And FWIW OP the comment that another poster made upthread about your child potentially having a PDA ASD profile seem quite possible given what you've described. Posters saying "oh, firmer boundaries and consequences will help!" clearly have no clue about that possibility because if that's the case those strategies obviously would make the situation ten times worse than it is now. Does his assessment report mention any of the PDA characteristics?

That may be a red herring but is certainly worth considering before you decide what next steps you might or might not take when allowed contact again or what professionals you could get involved to support him/ provide therapy/ educational or living placements that might actually help etc, even if you (understandably per my earlier posts) need to be hands off with it to protect yourself and your other children.

I am sorry your thread got derailed by people who can't read.

Legally 12 year olds are allowed to pick which parent they want to live with when their parents divorce. OP's son picked living with his father and wouldn't be forced to see his mother at all if he didn't want to see her.

OP is legally not allowed to speak to her son and it's clear that this is not the first incident of him behaving like this. She had a responsibility to protect the other children in her house- they could end up being his next targets.

It is best that the legal process and children's services help untangle what happened and what happens next.

Long story short

Debatable. But no YANBU.

OP please make the decision asap . Please don't end up with a 30 something adult child that's trying to mentally & morally destroy and bring fear to your family . Cannot continue to participate as it's too hard. I wish you so much peace for you and your family take care & stay strong .🙏

Legally 12 year olds are allowed to pick which parent they want to live with when their parents divorce. OP's son picked living with his father and wouldn't be forced to see his mother at all if he didn't want to see her.

Yes but he doesn't want to be there anymore. To hazard a wild guess it might be something to do with his father being so abusive, according to OP, that 14 years after leaving his father and with much therapy she's still not ok. So it's probably a bit much for a messed up 16 year old to cope with. And he's clearly not saying anymore that he doesn't want to see his mother at all, the opposite. But that's not relevant atm because clearly he cannot, because of what's happened. Or that anybody suggested he be forced to do so? Not sure what your point is?!

OP is legally not allowed to speak to her son and it's clear that this is not the first incident of him behaving like this. She had a responsibility to protect the other children in her house- they could end up being his next targets.

Yes. Where has anybody said otherwise? I think you may have directed your post at the wrong person? My post specifically noted she cannot speak to him at the moment, obviously. And that she has to protect herself and her other children. Why did you feel the need to repeat back to me points I'd made in my own post as though they were some kind of revelation?

It is best that the legal process and children's services help untangle what happened and what happens next.

That's exactly what I suggested. 😆 Along with other relevant organisations and charities who could help him with appropriate therapy, support, organising an appropriate place to live (not with the OP obviously but also not with an abuser) or a residential education placement.

Why are you saying this to me, when it's the same as what I said but less detailed? Or were you also apparently unable to read my post properly?

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Christ you really are up for an argument aren't you. Let it go !

@Wiccan I can't abide being falsely accused of things I haven't said, so yes this has riled me no end. Particularly because when this was pointed out to Those Who Swim At The Shallow End Of The Comprehension Pool they did not even have the decency to read back and admit they were wrong, had accused me of things I hadn't said, and apologise. It's been a lot like attempting to bave a rational conversation with Leave voters, with their total lack of comprehension or rationality.

But yes, regrettable that it's taken up so much of the OP's thread. I had hoped that when their fabrications and made up subtext were pointed out the apologies would come much earlier rather than them doubling down and still attempting to pretend they were correct. Much idiocy, indeed.

However, I feel that at least I've made some useful suggestions to the OP about a third way forward that doesn't involve abandoning her son to her abusive ex or having him live with her, which is more than many of these dimmed lightbulbs attacking me have managed.

Perhaps they'll have some useful suggestions themselves of how she could help and protect her troubled son while also protecting herself and the rest of her family, although I somewhat doubt it given their comments up to now.

Not sure what leave voters has to do with this thread but whatever Bye !

There seems to be a similar characteristic im that many have an inability to engage in rational discussion or read properly, unfortunately.

Bye! Sweet dreams.

Quitelikeit

Shocking.

I’ve read the thread and can related in the most part to OP posts.

When you live with a child with ASD you go to bed wondering if they’ll be standing over you with a knife and you won’t see morning. You drive home and wonder if they’ve hurt others or attempted suicide.
There is very little help out there and I understand OPs relief that he isn’t home.

OP is been running in adrenaline for so long she’s forgotten what it’s like to sleep soundly and relax!

I would carry on as you are - you’ve done absolutely everything you could and more - take some time to heal and come back stronger.

He won’t like living with his father, but that’s not the end of the world is it?

When you live with a child with ASD you go to bed wondering if they’ll be standing over you with a knife and you won’t see morning

Wtf?!?

There are some seriously messed up people here.

My comments get deleted but ableist stuff like that implying that ASD means people are violent and murderous are fiiiiine.

Mumsnet moderating at its finest.

Don't listen to anyone who says this is your fault. I've seen enough to be aware that apart from genetics, some kids just go to strange places. Maybe it's a mental health condition, I don't know, but the most supportive parents can end up with a child who has issues, completely out of the blue.

I suspect DS1 will be unhappy wherever he lives.

It's good that DS1 is learning that his actions have consequences. For him too. He's getting to the age where there will be real impact on him related to his actions. I wouldn't have him home and I would tell him why.

As for DS2, I have a toxic and manipulative family member. I was straight up with my kids about this person and their ways. I thought it was important to protect them. I thought it was important they knew what they would be dealing with if they chose to try to have this person in their life, to protect them.

I hope you have someone you can talk all these decisions through with. Of course your mother guilt kicks in but sometimes we have to make decisions that hurt.

I thought the same. That doesn't describe typical ASD at all!

I thought the same. That doesn't describe typical ASD at all!

@IsolatedWilderness not remotely. It's an horrific thing to say. ASD bas nothing to do with violence or aggression, there's no data I'm aware of that shows any more incidence of that in people with ASD. Quite the opposite in fact: people with ASD are usually mire cautious, introverted and withdrawn, quiet and gentle and actually (studies show) more empathetic than NT people. But facts mean nothing to the people posting here it seems. It's just disgusting stereotyping and prejudice as usual.

Yes, and I'm glad people have commented in contradiction of that comment. People with ASD often have a hard enough time of it without such awful and untrue ideas being promoted.

God OP how horrific and difficult.

I can see why you can’t have him back. Not just legally but also for the sake of yourself and your other family members.

I also agree however with the PP who said he’s not ok with his dad. This is the man you said “was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me”. The fact you haven’t seen him abuse DS1 doesn’t mean he’s ok there. Even if not actually abusive to him, there is no way a man like that is fit to parent a very difficult and complex teenager.

Ideally you need a third option. Exploring supported living seems to be the way to go, if there is any way that would be possible. And perhaps explore further psychological/psychiatric assessment for him.

Thank you all. I’ve been out this evening, but it’s interesting to read further responses.

@WhereHasTheSunshineGone he doesn’t have PDA. As mentioned previously, I have a younger son who does have PDA. The presentations are entirely different. That said, I’m not worried that I’ll wake up to DS3 trying to murder me either. Baffling comment from that PP!

I’ve tried all the services/charities etc by the way. No help forthcoming. I hope SS are having luck with CAMHS etc and can possibly explore alternative living arrangements for him if he needs them. As has been widely pointed out though, I can’t actually do anything about any of it at the moment!

I did also say previously: I have not accessed any therapy. I’ve looked into it but not been able to find or fund one thus far. I did have talking therapy from the NHS over the phone once when I was struggling with severe depression and the therapist told me they couldn’t help me because it was ‘situational’ and I would feel that way as long as I had DS. He was about 8 I think. So that was a nice conversation. It didn’t exactly fill me with confidence that therapy would be much help.

In fact our (autism specialist) Psychologist states that 25% of families experience violence and challenging behaviour from autistic children. There is a taboo about talking about this because it is so stigmatising (see parent blaming comments on this thread for example).

There’s quite a leap from ‘challenging behaviour’ to murder though.

The problem with the original statement is that it was a blanket statement. Challenging behaviours does not mean parents must all fear for their life and go to bed wondering if they'll make it to morning. Maybe some experience that but it's got to be rare. It happens with kids who aren't autistic too, but that's also rare.

It is true that autistic people are at higher risk of suicide and challenging behaviours. The world is such a challenging place for them, this comes out behaviourally if they don't have other ways to deal with it. Let's not make it harder by portraying them in such extreme ways.

Of course.

The NHS mental health services are useless. Sorry they failed you so badly. For your son tbh I think CAMHS will probably be a waste of energy pursuing because they won't see most children now unless they are suicidal already, and with kids with ASD they often refuse even then because they don't have the trained therapists to do autism-informed therapy. It's good he doesn't have PDA though!!! You know how much harder that makes everything. 🫣 Sorry I missed you stating that earlier.

There are a couple of specialist NHS clinics that offer autism-trained therapists for children so your best bet might be to try to get a referral to the SPOA service in your area and state he either needs one of those or they need to fund the service he needs privately if they don't have it in house. It will be a battle though, and given his age he'd need to be on board with that, but appreciate atm you obviously cannot even have that conversation with him.

Such an awful situation to be in, and (as I did say earlier despite being accused otherwise) IMO FWIW you are obviously doing the right thing to protect yourself and your other children. You have to do that, you have no choice. It's all traumatic enough already. My comments weren't any objection to anything you've done - I mean, you've not done anything at all! - rather to the posters calling him a "psycho" and latterly a potential murderer etc?!? Wtf was all that about. Some total nutters on the thread.

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. There are no easy answers and trying to cope yourself and protect his siblings and worrying about him being with your ex-H but be torture.

I hope the false allegations are formally dropped soon so that is one weight off your mind, although it obviously won't take away the hurt.

Definitely worth discussing the issue with SS, regarding requesting a needs assessment for him, any kind of funding that might be available. Perhaps looking into whether its possible to get an advocate (several charities offer this) who could help him directly with getting support in place or how to apply for supported living or a social care package or maybe even a supported living place while he's still a minor, that kind of thing? So you're not involved and can focus on repairing the damage he's done to you and the rest of your family? Just so he has some support and other options without it being a stark choice between living with ex-H or trying to manage all alone at 16.

Again I'm so sorry you're going through this hell.