To not want to live with my child again?

[Namechangeteach]

This an attention seeking, goady title, sorry, but I've posted about this situation before and got no responses so I'm deliberately braving it in here. It's likely to be long in order to avoid drip feeding, but I'm happy to clarify details I may forget.

As mentioned, I've posted of this before, and I've namechanged because this is outing and I don't fancy the rest of my posting history being attached to this issue.

Long story short, some time ago, earlier this year, my eldest DS had some sort of meltdown. For context, DS is (now) 16, he turned 16 a few weeks ago. His father and I split before he was 2. Ex was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me. I have, however, been extremely happily married to my now DH for 10 years and we have 3 younger DC together: 1 teen and 2 primary aged. DS1 always lived with me/us, and called DH dad through his own choice, though he knows he is SD and has had mostly regular contact with his father.

DS1 was diagnosed with Asperger's aged 5 and has struggled socially and educationally comensurate with this, though he is academically very capable. He is deeply embarassed by his diagnosis, despite our best attempts to destigmatise. We have always accepted and loved him the way he is, however he has also always been an extremely difficult child - beyond that expected with an ASD diagnosis. He is manipulative, deceitful, has been violent when younger, has a history of stealing and of making false accusations of abuse/discrimination in order to deflect from his own misdemeanours - this has been aimed at multiple adults over the years: teachers, step-parents and parents. Living with him has for some years been fraught with tension, due in part to us being on edge waiting for him to do something anti-social, and in part to our fear of enforcing any sort of boundaries because, for many years now, this has resulted in false accusations of physical abuse. He has never been abused, physically or otherwise.

Most recently, I was the one chosen to feel his wrath. It's never been me before. After several incidents at school regarding violence and their suspicion of him vaping/selling vapes on site (I've since found out he is/was, but they've not been able to catch him in the act) I removed his phone. I don't routinely check my teens phones as feel at 15/16 they deserve some privacy and we have solid restrictions in place on them, but he was extremely angry that I'd dared to take it to look as this is 'controlling' He responded by leaving the house at 11pm and going to his Dad's, where he then reported me to the police for an 'assault' that is entirely fabricated. I was arrested the morning after, held for 12 hours and interviewed under caution. I was then released on bail, with conditions that state I am not able to have any direct or indirect contact. This restriction seemed awful at first, but has possibly been a blessing in disguise.

As my username suggests, I am a teacher - well, still a student. I'm half way through SCITT. This investigation has meant I've not been allowed in any schools at all, my training is on hold. I've had to go on medication for anxiety and developed PTSD and agoraphobia. It's been horrendous. DS1 has been placed on a CiN plan whilst at his Dad's - our DC here have no SS involvement at all. It's now approaching my bail date, and DS1 has been messaging DS2 on snapchat. This means there's no trace of their conversation, but DS2 says that DS1 is miserable. He hates his life at his Dad's, he hates his SM and he desperately wants to come home. He claims that 'when' the police ask him if he wants to proceed with prosecution of me, he is going to decline (I'm well aware that's not how this works, but he genuinely believes he can choose whether to press charges or not: too much American TV/films). He has asked DS2 to ask DH and I if he can come home.

So, AIBU to feel like I have to say that no, this can't happen? My youngest DS has ASD too and has found this life change very difficult already. My DD is younger still and I am loathe to model acceptance of such coercive behaviour in the home. DS2 doen't deserve to be used as a go-between (I have not responded to/via DS2 at all and won't do so. I also wouldn't stop him talking to his brother though). My career may well be in tatters before it's even begun and I don't think I could ever relax and feel sure that I won't face this sort of 'punishment' from DS1 again. I've missed him terribly the last few weeks, but I've also slept so much better and I don't feel a constant anxiety when the phone rings of 'what now?' My SCITT have been fantastically supportive and will welcome me back to finish the course when the investigation is concluded with NFA, I would be terrified constantly that it would be ruined again. Not to mention my DH who has been an incredible support, but there's no denying he's found this extremely difficult. Without asking, I know he'll support my decision making either way, but I also know he would also be inclined to want to say no, though he'd be loathe to say it out loud. In short, I think we've all been through enough over the last decade.

But... I'm still DS1's Mum. The thought of him being miserable hurts deeply. I obviously want to make that go away. I just have no idea what to do. Am I being selfish?

Appreciate all viewpoints, but please don't be deliberately unkind, I am still very delicate. Thank you.

@Wiccan and @Namechangeteach don't worry. Most of us, here at least, understand and have lived it too. Don't feel you have to defend yourselves against this.

I don’t know if this is helpful but you can actually save conversations on snapchat. I know it can be done as i had it when it first came out. It’s probably been well updated from then so don’t know the ins and outs like if the other person gets a notification to say its been saved or whatever

@Namechangeteach I just wanted to tell you that you are doing all the right things, under horrific and heartbreaking circumstances, all whilst maintaining your dignity.

It will be very important for you to seek counselling / therapy after this has all died down. You are in the thick of it right now in warrior mode, so will have no sense of perspective in terms of the trauma it is causing you, but it’s only when you are out the other side and look back you will realise how much you have been through (again). You will definitely have trauma, and you deserve to have proper support dealing with that so that you can move forward, onwards and upwards.

Please don’t downplay it (“other people have it worse” nonsense) - take care of yourself 💐

You should have protected your other children. That's awful that you would put them through that.

Thank you @Bamboux .👍

On a personal level I would never turn my own kids away- unless they were prevented from seeing me

You say your ex is abusive and this did damage to you that you haven't been able to repair in 14 years but you're ok with a 16 year old living with him?

I really don't think OP has any choice as her DS had her arrested .

Sad that you have so little regard for your other kids, and for yourself. You are teaching you kids that they should tolerate abuse.

My sincerest sympathy with what you are going through.

I concur with the overwhelming response to say NO to his return.

I hope by holding firm he may access greater supports via CAMHS and SS.

I have 4 children between 16-23.

I think they may have a somewhat naive idea of long term consequences but right and wrong is clear.

He knows well that his lies causes damage and collateral damage.
This is not a first offence of lying and causing huge stress and upset.

Parenting from a distance is what is best, however sad.

You have 3 other children.

I feel very strongly that no one child should control a home.

He has.

Time to move away from that.

Being old, I have long seen the damage where parents allowed one childs issues dominate an entire family and impact negatively the childhoods of siblings.

I strongly don't agree with it.

I wish you well.

Fyi whilst Snapchat deletes posts, one can easily photograph a post with their phone, therefore having a record.

So your son could have showed his brothers posts to you and you could have taken a picture with your phone, with no record of the picture taken.

Keep your DC2 safe. No doubt he is vulnerable to being manipulatived.
Sibling loyalty can be very strong, but misplaced.

Wishing you well.

Sadly your DS16 has made his bed. He's accused multiple people of abuse, falsely.

You can not allow him back under your roof. He needs to feel the real life consequences of his behaviour.
Once charges have been dropped, I'd make it clear you can only meet in public from now on. He cannot enter your home.
His actions could have meant that your other children had no mum as she was in jail. Or dad for that matter as his accusations to his step dad could have meant him having no contact with his children.
It seems likely that your son has inherited antisocial personality traits from his Dad.
He could be a sociopath or psychopath. Don't put your younger children, husband or self in harms way any longer.
I pity the adult women who are going to come in to his life.
Perhaps with similar personality his Dad will be able to control his behaviour more.
I would make it clear by redistributing bedrooms that he isn't coming back. Pack his things, give his room to someone else and if you have enough/spare rooms make them the spare or study.

It needs to be set in your whole family minds that he isn't coming back to live there ever.
Yours most importantly.

I agree that I'd probably say no. While he's having such difficulties he's also accused you of a crime, had you arrested, derailed your career and hasn't even told the police it was a lie yet.

I wouldn't want to risk him accusing your husband or even other children. Unfortunately for him, the consequence of falsely accusing someone of a crime is that you don't get to live with them.

I really don't think OP has any choice as her DS had her arrested.

Perhaps. But all the "he's safe with his Dad" comments are a bit disingenuous, don't you think? For a teenager with emotional problems and a disability to be living with a man that the OP says is so abusive that she hasn't been able - as an adult without ASD - to get over the extent of his abuse after 14 years, even with extensive therapy?

I think most of us here probably think that the time has come for the op to prioritise the safety of herself, her other children and her husband, rather than allowing a 6 foot tall nearly adult male who has falsely accused her of a violent crime, had her arrested, given her ptsd and ruined her emerging career to continue to destroy her.

@WhereHasTheSunshineGone

What's the exact alternative? Breach his bail conditions ???

Like I said OP isn't allowed to contact the son let alone decide where he's living the situation is completely out of OPs hands at the moment .

16 year olds are very far off being adults. Particularly those with ASD.

However inconvenient it is, he is still the OP's son. I think many of the comments here recommending she ignore the needs of her child and abandon him to live with a man she says is horrifically abusive are callous and will cause immense damage. This kid is clearly very messed up. He needs support. Is he going to get that from an abuser?

What he's done is awful and of course there should be consequences. I disagree that those consequences should be leaving him to live with an abusive man so dangerous that in a decade and a half the OP hasn't been able to get past what he did to her as an adult, even with therapy. Behaviour is communication. What support and therapy and interventions has he had to find out why he did this?

Clearly OP can do nothing about it right now. But I'd be engaging with ASD charities, children's services, potential residential schools etc to see what support can be put in place for him because he is clearly not ok, and while she has to protect herself and her other children, washing her hands of a vulnerable, child with disabilities which will mean his emotional maturity is much lower than his age shouldn't be the preferred option either despite the many posts her suggesting that's what she should do.

I think you should give him another chance. He probably learned a good lesson. You and dh might give him firm boundaries and guide him towards a career and he can develop his own path in life very soon. He's probably lost and directionless in your exs house, so while him not being around is a bliss in the short run for you, it'll create bigger problems in the long run for him, and this bigger misery, as a loving mum, for you.

You think she should do that while he continues to maintain to police and social services that she violently assaulted him?

What exactly for you would constitute a serious enough act for the op to be allowed to protect herself and her other children?

I'm guessing there is nothing at all that would stop you ludicrously describing a highly manipulative, potentially sociopathic 16 year old male who has given his mother ptsd, destroyed her career, and had her arrested and held for 12 hours, and has zero remorse, as a 'vulnerable kid who needs help'.

Did you miss the post where op says she did a fucking degree to try to help him, along with all of the other things she has tried?

Op, it is OK to protect yourself and your children. Don't be guilt tripped by people who don't have to live your life.

WhereHasTheSunshineGone your post is shockingly unhelpful.

16 year olds are very far off being adults. Particularly those with ASD.

I am sure the OP knows that, as I and many other parents of children with ASD do.

However inconvenient it is, he is still the OP's son. I think many of the comments here recommending she ignore the needs of her child and abandon him to live with a man she says is horrifically abusive are callous and will cause immense damage. This kid is clearly very messed up. He needs support. Is he going to get that from an abuser?

Of course he remains her son, why else would she be posting? He currently isn't allowed to live with the OP, she isn't 'ignoring his needs'. Clearly by posting she is very concerned about his needs. What do you suggest she does?

What he's done is awful and of course there should be consequences.

What consequences do you suggest? Are there any which involve OP's son living with her that don't put her, her DH and other DC at risk?

I disagree that those consequences should be leaving him to live with an abusive man so dangerous that in a decade and a half the OP hasn't been able to get past what he did to her as an adult, even with therapy.

Again, he can't live with the OP, where else do you suggest he go?

Behaviour is communication. What support and therapy and interventions has he had to find out why he did this?

He is 16. He will need to engage with these and may not want to.

Clearly OP can do nothing about it right now.

Well done for working that out.

But I'd be engaging with ASD charities, children's services, potential residential schools etc to see what support can be put in place for him because he is clearly not ok,

All those things are possible, and obviously only possible, if the OP isn't in prison/a police station/separated from her other DC because of a new allegation.

and while she has to protect herself and her other children, washing her hands of a vulnerable, child with disabilities which will mean his emotional maturity is much lower than his age shouldn't be the preferred option either despite the many posts her suggesting that's what she should do.

This is patronising and ridiculously emotive. The OP isn't washing her hands of her DC if she is making sure she is actually able to advocate for him, by, you know, not being in custody for instance.

He deliberately accused you of assault. He's fabricated abuse. The natural consequence is that he can not live with you - ever. You said he told DS2 that he is miserable. So what. That seems to be his usual just disposition. You need to protect the remaining members of your family. Do not let him back in.

Wow this is a special kind of response.

I haven’t read the full thread but I just wanted to say that I work in this sector (adolescents displaying abusive behaviours towards parents) and let you know there is support out there for you and your son. My advice would be to contact your local domestic abuse service and find out if they know of anyone in your area who specialises in CAPVA. PEGS is an alternative - they support parents who experience this for whatever reason.

Also, don’t feel any guilt about saying no to him coming home. You’re right, he needs to learn his actions have consequences and you need to rebuild your relationship with each other and trust in each other. Good luck.

I have just scanned through another thread called
" murderers mother's aren't to blame "

I can't even read any further ! there are litterly posters on there saying that mothers are responsible for violent sons Kids / adults but also that mothers who are over protective are also to blame .
What the bloody hell are we supposed to do as parents . So much finger pointing from society. It makes me feel like such a fucking failure .

Well he didn't learn a good lesson after making false accusations about OP's partner, his teachers and his step-mother, did he? This is not a one off. He's been displaying this extreme behaviour, and manipulation for years.

Yours is the most stunningly naive post, which gives no thought at al to protecting OP, his step dad or his siblings - who could well end up in court in the future.