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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to live with my child again?

325 replies

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 11:53

This an attention seeking, goady title, sorry, but I've posted about this situation before and got no responses so I'm deliberately braving it in here. It's likely to be long in order to avoid drip feeding, but I'm happy to clarify details I may forget.

As mentioned, I've posted of this before, and I've namechanged because this is outing and I don't fancy the rest of my posting history being attached to this issue.

Long story short, some time ago, earlier this year, my eldest DS had some sort of meltdown. For context, DS is (now) 16, he turned 16 a few weeks ago. His father and I split before he was 2. Ex was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me. I have, however, been extremely happily married to my now DH for 10 years and we have 3 younger DC together: 1 teen and 2 primary aged. DS1 always lived with me/us, and called DH dad through his own choice, though he knows he is SD and has had mostly regular contact with his father.

DS1 was diagnosed with Asperger's aged 5 and has struggled socially and educationally comensurate with this, though he is academically very capable. He is deeply embarassed by his diagnosis, despite our best attempts to destigmatise. We have always accepted and loved him the way he is, however he has also always been an extremely difficult child - beyond that expected with an ASD diagnosis. He is manipulative, deceitful, has been violent when younger, has a history of stealing and of making false accusations of abuse/discrimination in order to deflect from his own misdemeanours - this has been aimed at multiple adults over the years: teachers, step-parents and parents. Living with him has for some years been fraught with tension, due in part to us being on edge waiting for him to do something anti-social, and in part to our fear of enforcing any sort of boundaries because, for many years now, this has resulted in false accusations of physical abuse. He has never been abused, physically or otherwise.

Most recently, I was the one chosen to feel his wrath. It's never been me before. After several incidents at school regarding violence and their suspicion of him vaping/selling vapes on site (I've since found out he is/was, but they've not been able to catch him in the act) I removed his phone. I don't routinely check my teens phones as feel at 15/16 they deserve some privacy and we have solid restrictions in place on them, but he was extremely angry that I'd dared to take it to look as this is 'controlling' He responded by leaving the house at 11pm and going to his Dad's, where he then reported me to the police for an 'assault' that is entirely fabricated. I was arrested the morning after, held for 12 hours and interviewed under caution. I was then released on bail, with conditions that state I am not able to have any direct or indirect contact. This restriction seemed awful at first, but has possibly been a blessing in disguise.

As my username suggests, I am a teacher - well, still a student. I'm half way through SCITT. This investigation has meant I've not been allowed in any schools at all, my training is on hold. I've had to go on medication for anxiety and developed PTSD and agoraphobia. It's been horrendous. DS1 has been placed on a CiN plan whilst at his Dad's - our DC here have no SS involvement at all. It's now approaching my bail date, and DS1 has been messaging DS2 on snapchat. This means there's no trace of their conversation, but DS2 says that DS1 is miserable. He hates his life at his Dad's, he hates his SM and he desperately wants to come home. He claims that 'when' the police ask him if he wants to proceed with prosecution of me, he is going to decline (I'm well aware that's not how this works, but he genuinely believes he can choose whether to press charges or not: too much American TV/films). He has asked DS2 to ask DH and I if he can come home.

So, AIBU to feel like I have to say that no, this can't happen? My youngest DS has ASD too and has found this life change very difficult already. My DD is younger still and I am loathe to model acceptance of such coercive behaviour in the home. DS2 doen't deserve to be used as a go-between (I have not responded to/via DS2 at all and won't do so. I also wouldn't stop him talking to his brother though). My career may well be in tatters before it's even begun and I don't think I could ever relax and feel sure that I won't face this sort of 'punishment' from DS1 again. I've missed him terribly the last few weeks, but I've also slept so much better and I don't feel a constant anxiety when the phone rings of 'what now?' My SCITT have been fantastically supportive and will welcome me back to finish the course when the investigation is concluded with NFA, I would be terrified constantly that it would be ruined again. Not to mention my DH who has been an incredible support, but there's no denying he's found this extremely difficult. Without asking, I know he'll support my decision making either way, but I also know he would also be inclined to want to say no, though he'd be loathe to say it out loud. In short, I think we've all been through enough over the last decade.

But... I'm still DS1's Mum. The thought of him being miserable hurts deeply. I obviously want to make that go away. I just have no idea what to do. Am I being selfish?

Appreciate all viewpoints, but please don't be deliberately unkind, I am still very delicate. Thank you.

OP posts:
Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 12:35

There are some questions I missed in that response, sorry.

his is proper, grown up, serious stuff - it’s not something where he can say “sorry” and it will all go away - This is something he definitely needs to understand. He's completely incapable of taking responsibility.

How does his biological dad feel about him living with him? Are you still on good terms?
As far as I know via DS1's social worker, Ex is happy to have him there. In the immediate aftermath this was 'happy to have him for a few weeks until this blows over,' which DH and I were astounded by. Not the response I would have given if I actually believed DS1 had come to harm. At this point we did say that this would have to be permanent, but I'm vaguely wavering because I feel mum guilt.

You know how manipulative and coercive he can be. Don't ever forget that. Are you having specialist professional help at all?
I need that. Thank you. I am not, but I am exploring it. I have been giving myself time to just not do anything and actually decompress to be honest.

Your story of his behaviour makes me think of PDA. Have you considered he might have a PDA profile, in which case your parenting strategies need to take this into account My younger DS has PDA. DS1's presentation doesn't match it, but I do appreciate the thought. We parent very much low demand due to DS3 already.

can't imagine she's too happy about that, given his really bad attitude and his false reporting. I wouldn't be surprised if she leaves soon. I should think she regrets her life choices at the moment. I don't have any sympathy for her. She knowingly slept with his father behind my back, in my bed, the day I had DS1 - after befriending me. She can enjoy her current circumstances and the consequences of her actions with my very best wishes.

OP posts:
Cinnamon23 · 14/04/2023 12:37

YANBU, YANBU, YANBU!!

I hate to say it, but I’d be going NC permanently.

What he’s done is unforgivable, even taking the diagnosis into account. He could have cost you your career, your other children, everything you’ve worked for.
What evidence do they have/did he falsify any at the time? If you’re found guilty you’ve lost it all.

Absolutely no way in hell I would forgive that or ever speak to him again. If he’s unhappy at his dad’s, boo bloody hoo.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, OP.

BakedTattie · 14/04/2023 12:38

Yanbu.

I have a son like what you describe yours as being. It’s terrifying, all consuming and rules everybody and everything. I have been begging for help as I know he will grow up to be an aggressive adult. I get no help, just ‘oh have you tried to pin point what causes the aggression’ 🙄 it’s honestly soul destroying.

I don’t have any advice sorry. But I really
hope this shows your son that actions have consequences. So sorry you are having to go through this

Ktime · 14/04/2023 12:38

Does ex have other children now?

FirstnameSuesecondnamePerb · 14/04/2023 12:39

I think that it would be the right thing all round not to have him back for the time being.

SiouxsieSiouxStiletto · 14/04/2023 12:39

It's interesting that somebody suggested a middle ground of supported living; this sort of arrangement had occurred to me, but I'd thought of helping set him up in a studio or similar once he's a bit older. I moved out at 17 and DM helped with that (I was pregnant with DS1 then.

Has your DS1 got a SW? If they have I'd be talking to them and saying that you think he needs assisted living if he's not happy at his DFs although I'm not sure if they do assisted living for under 16's?

I'd try to explain to DS2 how he is being manipulated and the concept of Flying Monkeys. It's really not fair that DS1 is doing this, especially as he's using Snapchat. He knows exactly what he's doing.

And no, you are not being selfish Flowers

RememberingGoodTimes · 14/04/2023 12:44

I haven't read the other comments. But my view is that you need to protect the three children living in your house who are more reliant on you with nowhere else to go.

Your DS has his dad, who it would seem, he may have a lot in common with.

I'm not a professional, but instinctively I would think that you can't change your son. He is who he is and this manipulation will not go away, at least in the short term.

I would wait until you've been cleared, then speak to social services about plans for his accommodation and any concerns you have around him living with his dad.

But no, I wouldn't take him back in. It's too risky for all of you, and whilst he's still a child, he's nearing adulthood and can sustain himself better than if he were younger.

It's a sad situation, I'm so sorry it's come to this. It must be really hard for you.

SeulementUneFois · 14/04/2023 12:44

Op
No I would never have him in the house again, or ever have yourself / your other DC in his presence without witnesses.

He's well on the way of destroying your life, and your DC if you let him.

BringtheJury · 14/04/2023 12:46

You poor thing, I've been through similar, including the false accusations (which are now on my medical records and can't be removed) and police involvement.
I don't think you can have him back, I have no other advice but truly sympathise xx

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 12:46

Cinnamon23 · 14/04/2023 12:37

YANBU, YANBU, YANBU!!

I hate to say it, but I’d be going NC permanently.

What he’s done is unforgivable, even taking the diagnosis into account. He could have cost you your career, your other children, everything you’ve worked for.
What evidence do they have/did he falsify any at the time? If you’re found guilty you’ve lost it all.

Absolutely no way in hell I would forgive that or ever speak to him again. If he’s unhappy at his dad’s, boo bloody hoo.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, OP.

I've not been charged with anything, just to be clear!

To answer the question of evidence, he has made a statement (he likes doing that, does it at school a lot, even with situations that are nothing to do with him). I think he likes having his story(ies) in writing so the lies are easier to remember.

He also had them take a picture of a bruise on his leg. This was yellowing/brown so quite obviously old, and this was done within 24 hours of his report. He also had a graze on his stomach. I have no idea how either injury was caused. He left via his bedroom window so perhaps he grazed himself doing that. There's a flat roof below his window, he didn't chuck himself from the top floor to the ground.

Those injuries don't in any way match the description he gave of the 'assault.' I would never hurt my children. We've never smacked our children. Besides which, DS1 is 6ft tall and well built, I am 5ft 3 and have physical impairements that I think would prevent me from behaving in the way he described. I wouldn't actually know though, as I've never tried.

Ex does not have any other children. Step-mum has childen from her marriage (ex and SM are not actually married, but it's easier to describe her as such) who live with them.

OP posts:
Reugny · 14/04/2023 12:49

He needs to live with his dad. He cannot live with you as while he is a risk to you, he is a risk to your other 2 children particularly as they grow older.

If his dad and his dad partner can't cope with then social services need to find somewhere for him to live.

Living with his dad or else where doesn't mean when you are allowed contact you can't see him but due to his continual false allegations he can no longer live in your household.

LuvSmallDogs · 14/04/2023 12:50

Bed, made, lie.

Once you're allowed to contact him again, I wouldn't go beyond brief cafe lunches or visits at grandparent's house, with a friend or family member along as witness for any allegations (If SS are still involved, they might get a SW to do this for a while anyway)- he will likely be resentful that you won't have him back from his dad's. Only if you feel like you want to, of course.

He could absolutely destroy the lives of you, your husband and other children - he has already made a good attempt at it.

Mumsanetta · 14/04/2023 12:51

Oh OP, big hugs to you 🌸. You have been through so much and I can only imagine how devastated you must feel that it has come to this. But, everyone is right, you cannot allow him to come back home in the circumstances. As painful as it is, it does sound like the most loving thing you can do for your DS is reinforce that actions have consequences. That doesn’t mean you can’t have a relationship with him once bail is over, just that he can’t be in your home.

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 12:53

SiouxsieSiouxStiletto · 14/04/2023 12:39

It's interesting that somebody suggested a middle ground of supported living; this sort of arrangement had occurred to me, but I'd thought of helping set him up in a studio or similar once he's a bit older. I moved out at 17 and DM helped with that (I was pregnant with DS1 then.

Has your DS1 got a SW? If they have I'd be talking to them and saying that you think he needs assisted living if he's not happy at his DFs although I'm not sure if they do assisted living for under 16's?

I'd try to explain to DS2 how he is being manipulated and the concept of Flying Monkeys. It's really not fair that DS1 is doing this, especially as he's using Snapchat. He knows exactly what he's doing.

And no, you are not being selfish Flowers

I've found this one of the hardest aspects to deal with. How do I explain to DS2, (who is 14, so not tiny either), about the manipulation and flying monkeys without DS1 then further manipulating by telling DS1 that I would say that etc? I can't stop DS2 speaking to DS1, but my greatest fear at the moment is him being poisoned by DS1's mind games. I think DS2 is switched on enough to not fall for it entirely, but it's so hard. You're absolutely right that use of snapchat is not a coincidence.

And this is why I don't have contact with ex: I can't think straight. I second guess everything I say or do, I'm gaslighting myself into thinking I really am the problem. I can't do it.

And then I feel even worse about myself for thinking about DS1 this way. I tie myself up in knots of guilt. He can be such a lovely boy, but then I think it's only when he wants something or is already getting his own way. But then he can be thoughtful. But I still have screenshots from his phone of the outright fantasy he was telling his DF and the story they were concocting together of what to tell a social worker. It's all so confused.

I miss him. But I'm worried I miss a version of him that doesn't truly exist. I feel like such an utter failure that he's become so like his father. I just wanted to do right by him.

OP posts:
OnATrolley · 14/04/2023 12:56

People go mad on here if you suggest Borderline Personality Disorder aka Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder.
But DS(20) has been diagnosed with it (plus ADHD, depression, anxiety etc etc - though no autism).
Read up, and see if you think it fits. There's lots online including a really helpful US organisation: NEABPD- National Education Alliance.
It's a very difficult thing to live with but there is therapy (Dialectical Behaviour- DS been waiting for 2 years to start on NHS....) and strategies for parents/ loved ones.

Fullyhuman · 14/04/2023 12:57

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I also wouldn’t have him back to live, but there are many ways you can try to improve your relationship once the dust has settled. A mum who loves us is precious at any age, and even if it takes him a few years to realise the gravity of what he’s done - or if he never actually does - you can choose to keep offering that love in ways that don’t threaten you or your other family members. Even if it doesn’t look how you’d imagined your relationship would, or how society expects mothers and sons to look - you can grieve what isn’t and also work towards what is available. This is really, really hard, and I hope you are able to look after yourself through it.

TheodoreMortlock · 14/04/2023 12:58

You can't have him back, not while you have bail conditions or potentially at all.

I don't think you can even say anything to DS2 beyond "it's out of my hands." If DS1 is angry that he's not getting his way over coming back, anything that gets back from DS2 to DS1 may well be used against you in his next "statement" about how you've been indirectly contacting him through DS2 and then the next thing you know, there's a breach of bail offence being alleged and potentially flags to social services about DS2 being used as a vehicle for breach of bail.

FishChipsMushyPeas · 14/04/2023 12:58

I think its time his dad shouldered some of the responsibility of your son so he can stay there for a good while longer yet

caringcarer · 14/04/2023 12:59

This sounds like an horrendous situation not just for you, with your career in jeopardy before it begins, but your DH and other children too. Your eldest son has to learn that behaviour has a consequence. If your eldest son is safely living with his Dad and SM it will do him good to get more strict boundaries. No matter how much he moans he has brought this on himself. You will have to let the police deal with it and the investigation to run its course. I'd stop your other son chatting with your eldest on What's App too. If your eldest son decides to go to the police and tell them he has lied about you I'd maybe consider doing a shared parenting with his biological Dad so one week at your house then one week at his Dad's house. This would give you some respite from his behaviour and might make him think twice about making false allegations again.

Frogger8395 · 14/04/2023 13:00

Never have him back. And protect yourself from further allegations by only seeing him in public places.

Endeavormorse · 14/04/2023 13:00

id be deleting Snapchat from DS2’s phone for a start.

CandyLeBonBon · 14/04/2023 13:01

OnATrolley · 14/04/2023 12:56

People go mad on here if you suggest Borderline Personality Disorder aka Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder.
But DS(20) has been diagnosed with it (plus ADHD, depression, anxiety etc etc - though no autism).
Read up, and see if you think it fits. There's lots online including a really helpful US organisation: NEABPD- National Education Alliance.
It's a very difficult thing to live with but there is therapy (Dialectical Behaviour- DS been waiting for 2 years to start on NHS....) and strategies for parents/ loved ones.

I agree.

MatildaTheCat · 14/04/2023 13:01

YANBU.

His behaviours sound quite complex and I’d be questioning whether he has other issues which could be assssed via a psychiatrist. A possible personality disorder or other diagnosis which, whilst maybe embarrassing for him (given what you have said), might open doors to further treatment or support.

If he is sincere in wanting to reconcile he should be willing to engage with professionals who can advise and help him to stop ruining his own life, let along yours and many others in the future.

Of course he can’t come back to live with you but I’d assume that at some point you will engage in some sort of contact and try to find some way of having a relationship at a distance. When you are ready. For me, engaging in the above would be a condition of that. There are some programs which can have a positive impact though no doubt difficult to access.

Very best wishes.

Reugny · 14/04/2023 13:02

@TheodoreMortlock has made a good point that you say it is out of your hands.

Once you are not on bail/case gets chucked out simply say that you can't have him back in the household living with the rest of you, and refuse to give a reason.

You are actually allowed to refuse to explain to people why you are doing something.

Tistheseason17 · 14/04/2023 13:02

I'm so sorry OP.
YANBU
I would also recommend only meeting in public spaces or accompanied after bail as you now know this could affect your entire life with false accusations.

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