To not want to live with my child again?

[Namechangeteach]

This an attention seeking, goady title, sorry, but I've posted about this situation before and got no responses so I'm deliberately braving it in here. It's likely to be long in order to avoid drip feeding, but I'm happy to clarify details I may forget.

As mentioned, I've posted of this before, and I've namechanged because this is outing and I don't fancy the rest of my posting history being attached to this issue.

Long story short, some time ago, earlier this year, my eldest DS had some sort of meltdown. For context, DS is (now) 16, he turned 16 a few weeks ago. His father and I split before he was 2. Ex was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me. I have, however, been extremely happily married to my now DH for 10 years and we have 3 younger DC together: 1 teen and 2 primary aged. DS1 always lived with me/us, and called DH dad through his own choice, though he knows he is SD and has had mostly regular contact with his father.

DS1 was diagnosed with Asperger's aged 5 and has struggled socially and educationally comensurate with this, though he is academically very capable. He is deeply embarassed by his diagnosis, despite our best attempts to destigmatise. We have always accepted and loved him the way he is, however he has also always been an extremely difficult child - beyond that expected with an ASD diagnosis. He is manipulative, deceitful, has been violent when younger, has a history of stealing and of making false accusations of abuse/discrimination in order to deflect from his own misdemeanours - this has been aimed at multiple adults over the years: teachers, step-parents and parents. Living with him has for some years been fraught with tension, due in part to us being on edge waiting for him to do something anti-social, and in part to our fear of enforcing any sort of boundaries because, for many years now, this has resulted in false accusations of physical abuse. He has never been abused, physically or otherwise.

Most recently, I was the one chosen to feel his wrath. It's never been me before. After several incidents at school regarding violence and their suspicion of him vaping/selling vapes on site (I've since found out he is/was, but they've not been able to catch him in the act) I removed his phone. I don't routinely check my teens phones as feel at 15/16 they deserve some privacy and we have solid restrictions in place on them, but he was extremely angry that I'd dared to take it to look as this is 'controlling' He responded by leaving the house at 11pm and going to his Dad's, where he then reported me to the police for an 'assault' that is entirely fabricated. I was arrested the morning after, held for 12 hours and interviewed under caution. I was then released on bail, with conditions that state I am not able to have any direct or indirect contact. This restriction seemed awful at first, but has possibly been a blessing in disguise.

As my username suggests, I am a teacher - well, still a student. I'm half way through SCITT. This investigation has meant I've not been allowed in any schools at all, my training is on hold. I've had to go on medication for anxiety and developed PTSD and agoraphobia. It's been horrendous. DS1 has been placed on a CiN plan whilst at his Dad's - our DC here have no SS involvement at all. It's now approaching my bail date, and DS1 has been messaging DS2 on snapchat. This means there's no trace of their conversation, but DS2 says that DS1 is miserable. He hates his life at his Dad's, he hates his SM and he desperately wants to come home. He claims that 'when' the police ask him if he wants to proceed with prosecution of me, he is going to decline (I'm well aware that's not how this works, but he genuinely believes he can choose whether to press charges or not: too much American TV/films). He has asked DS2 to ask DH and I if he can come home.

So, AIBU to feel like I have to say that no, this can't happen? My youngest DS has ASD too and has found this life change very difficult already. My DD is younger still and I am loathe to model acceptance of such coercive behaviour in the home. DS2 doen't deserve to be used as a go-between (I have not responded to/via DS2 at all and won't do so. I also wouldn't stop him talking to his brother though). My career may well be in tatters before it's even begun and I don't think I could ever relax and feel sure that I won't face this sort of 'punishment' from DS1 again. I've missed him terribly the last few weeks, but I've also slept so much better and I don't feel a constant anxiety when the phone rings of 'what now?' My SCITT have been fantastically supportive and will welcome me back to finish the course when the investigation is concluded with NFA, I would be terrified constantly that it would be ruined again. Not to mention my DH who has been an incredible support, but there's no denying he's found this extremely difficult. Without asking, I know he'll support my decision making either way, but I also know he would also be inclined to want to say no, though he'd be loathe to say it out loud. In short, I think we've all been through enough over the last decade.

But... I'm still DS1's Mum. The thought of him being miserable hurts deeply. I obviously want to make that go away. I just have no idea what to do. Am I being selfish?

Appreciate all viewpoints, but please don't be deliberately unkind, I am still very delicate. Thank you.

This is such a tricky one. In a sense I stand with what the majority of others have said and that right now you shouldn't have him back home. BUT I feel like not many people are seeing his side in this? Yes what he's done is very obviously wrong, even beyond wrong... but is he getting any sort of help? Support? He has an ASD diagnosis but to me it sounds like more is going on. ADHD perhaps, personality disorder? Has anyone reviewed him for anything other than ASD, does he have appropriate mental health support etc? Yes as a parent you've gone above and beyond for him and been supportive and loving but sometimes that isn't enough. It sounds like he's struggled incredibly hard all his life and it seems like the older he's getting he's just spiralling more and more. If he doesn't get some appropriate help and support in place he's just going to spiral and spiral and spiral...

He has dropped a bomb on your family and its sounds like it is not the first time.

My hope would be that you first protect your family, including yourself.

I don't have direct experience of this with my own family but my thoughts are:

You can only rebuild a relationship with him if he acknowledges that he has lied, otherwise you are reinforcing his delusions/self serving fantasies and that will not help anyone, including DS1 in the longer term.

Tell him you love him but he can't come back to live in the wreckage he has created- you all have to rebuild your lives, your confidence and your trust in him. Also he needs to see and understand that you are trying your best, and also be willing to try, and that this takes time and is a gradual process. Until there is real progress he has to stay away and certainly he cannot come home in the short to medium term. he needs to understand this as consequence of his own actions. This might take a long time and/or therapy for you and him.

While he frames himself as the victim/lead character and everyone else as persecutors or bit players in his own personal drama you and your family are not safe- This perspective means he will do whatever it takes to get what he wants, as no-one else matters and only his feelings count.

I would be honest with your DS2- that you love all your children but at the moment DS1 has shown that he is willing to make up stories about you and your family that have serious consequences ( criminal charges, loss of income, loss of career, emotional hurt), and he is unlikely to tell the truth about his part in this. Tell him that your priority is to keep everyone safe and prevent them getting drawn in/ caught up in the drama that has ensued. This may mean DS2 blocking him on snapchat and maybe using a more auditable communication route..

Good luck, i really feel for you.

Is there any chance that your ex was manipulating your DS throughout to punish you and your DH? Seems your x could have been in your life indirectly.

I sounds like the bigger more relevant diagnosis is one that hasn’t been made yet - maybe PDA, Cluster B PD, EUPD, AS PD, sociopathy / psychopathy - maybe inherited or learned from his DF.

I think that you and your DCs have endured more than enough.

I would regroup with the intention of focusing 1000% on repairing the undoubted damage that this situation has negatively impacted on the emotional development of each of your subsequent children since the day they were born.

You have gone over and above for DS1 and lack of consequences to his behaviours (understandably) due to the pervasive threat of violence means than your home is not a sustainable place for him to emotionally mature. He needs firmer boundaries and tougher consequences.

I would sleep easy knowing I have done all I could, that my job now was the rebuild the damage in the family and although it will be a painful learning experience for DD1 that in fact this is the best outcome for his own development.

He may or may not get better. It maybe an intractable biological disorder or he may settle. You all don’t need to go on this journey with him any further to find out or to risk more trauma to you all.

Protect DS2 - he is being severely manipulated and exploited here.

Many DCs leave home at this age to go to boarding school, training, military etc. He just needs to get on with it.

You can have a detached compartmentalised contained relationship with him outside of your home which keeps you all safe.

I am sorry for what you are going through right now. But I hope that you can get yourself to a place where you are reconciled and satisfied that you gave him your all (IMHO too much) - and you have another job now to circle the wagons and invest in your other DC, marriage, family life, career - and that this experience is one of peace and joy. You all deserve this.

No guilt.

A couple of points; DS2 is well aware of who his DB is. He does, of course, have the naivety of childhood: he loves his brother and doesn't like to think of him suffering. However, of all my youngest 3 DC, DS2 knows best just what DS1 is like. They are very close in age, he has grown up with it (something that does make me very sad). He knows his brother lies and manipulates: he's seen how he treats others, especially women/girls. He is naive in the sense that he is not old enough to understand the nuances of manipulative behaviours, but he has not been artifically shielded. He knows exactly what DS1 has done to me/us: when it first happened DS2 was incandescent. He didn't sleep properly for several weeks. He's had extra support from school. He's also agreed to block DS1 and understands why and how important it is. Being implicated in any criminal proceeding would mean DS2 couldn't continue the hobby he loves, so I believe he will stick to this. He showed me DS1 was blocked. I'll be checking regularly, unnannounced but I am confident in him for various reasons.

I can't move his school, indeed I wouldn't anyway, that would be so unfair to him. He's settled, he's already well into some/all of his GCSEs, it's a crucial time. There are only a few weeks left of DS1 attending as he's y11. They don't share break times so contact has always been minimal there and would always be with witnesses.

If they haven’t charged yet, that’s a good sign! When I reported an ex for a genuine assault, we were informed of CPS’ decision to go ahead with charges very quickly. If they’re dragging their heels they can obviously see there’s more to it than meets the eye and/or the evidence doesn’t weigh up.

Fingers crossed the whole thing is dropped soon and you can go about your life. Try and look ahead of all this - picture yourself teaching again and spending time with your other DS and DH. DS2 is old enough to understand.

Wishing all the best for you!

Father and son deserve one another although of course your son may be lying about his misery. He knows how to press Mum's buttons all right.
Seriously you have the rest of your family to consider. How are you going to protect your other children from this boy's lies and accusations? How can you protect your husband?.If he was prepared to make.false allegations against his own mother, you have to accept that he will do that to others in the family with who knows what consequences.

He cannot be allowed to come home again.

Don't have him back at the cost of your other DC's It's likely they may be put on a CIN plan if so, which will be hard for many reasons
I'm so sorry You must feel torn as he's still your DS, but at 16, Asperger's or not, by reporting you he has caused chaos in your life, with no thought for the consequences on you
I don't want to say more but I've had a similar situation with DS1 at 17
SS involvement decided I had to prioritise my other DS's
In this situation it will be possible to obtain supported living for DS1, which will hopefully set your DS on a different path
I have a good relationship with DS1
now, so it doesn't mean cutting it out of your life completely
I've probably rambled on, but very best wishes to you

This is so hard to read, you have been through so much

I think you need to think logically and release the mum guilt. He is housed, fed, clothed, safe, and warm at his Dad's so he has to stay there. Of course he's "miserable" - my teenagers could complain they are miserable because I don't let them do whatever they want whenever they want. But let's be honest, they are not - they just like to moan!

It's interesting that you say he won't ever admit that he lied or that he was wrong, just that he no longer wants to "press charges". That's not his decision though, but I really hope that any investigation clears you of everything - can it be noted on your file (& your DH) that DS1 lies and accuses just for attention (or whatever his reason) in case he ever does the same again?

I don't think you should ever let him back to live in your house; no. 1 because what he did is unforgiveable (esp. with lack of taking responsibility), and no. 2 because he is dangerous and could too easily accuse your DH or your other DC of something.

Actions have consequences and these are his.

Take care of yourself, it sounds unbelievably hard!

I'm torn here, OP. He's put you through a horrendous ordeal but he's a child and one with SEN. He's acted impulsively, without thought of the consequences. Life isn't easy for him ever. My oldest DD has got ADHD and she landed a full SS investigation on us once, that was probably the lowest point of her growing up - purely from acting on impulse and with no idea of the horror it was going to land on us her parents and her younger siblings.

Do you get on well enough with his Dad to talk about it with him? Or engage in some level of family counselling? He needs to learn about consequences of course, but never letting him come home again feels like a very drastic consequence.

One hundred percent this, and all other PPs' comments - I have not read them all but they look unanimous at first glance.

I am so shocked by what he's done. I would be extremely reluctant to allow him back home ever. I think it's a no from me. No and Never.

It might be different if there were some way he could make reparations. But what he has done has had an irreversible and catastrophic impact on your life. Can he give you your career back? Replace the time lost in training, and remove the mark against your character that this has left? Can he take away the threat of a criminal charge, and erase the trauma he has caused you and his half siblings? No he can't, so no, you cannot have him back home.

I am so very sorry for what he's done. There is no diagnosis or personality disorder that can explain or excuse his actions. He's just behaved like a shit... and now, as others have said, he is facing the direct consequences.

So there's no reasonable/unreasonable question here. There are no choices really.

Thank you.

I'm not sure which file you mean, the police report? His SS file? The social worker saw straight through his lying, probably because he lied about her too! I sometimes regret taking that phone off him because it led to this, but actually at times I'm really glad I did, because he didn't get the chance to delete/hide all the lies he'd told. Ones that were stupidly easy to disprove (such as telling his DF the social worker said x about me, which didn't happen). I'd like to think that's been recorded.

I was entirely open and honest with the police, so I'd like to think any investigating they do will be thorough and confirm the truth.

I understand, this is what I've battled for along time though.

I wish this had only happened once. It has only been this bad once, and only been me accused once, but the pattern of lying about others to deflect from his behaviours is much longer.

Teachers have been accused of abusing him/discriminating against him. My husband has been accused of hurting him (categorically untrue), his previous step-mum was accused of hurting him. Incidentally, the hurt accused of both step-parents was identical. She is also in education, she had to leave to protect herself too.

I could deal with a one-off. I thought we had. It wasn't.

I have a son with additional needs, younger than yours but he can be all those things your son is, it’s so so hard to live with, he chose to live with his dad a few years ago, he still stayed with me a couple nights a week though, and recently ss contacted me to ask me if I’d have him with me full time. I was hesitant and I felt awful saying it but I didn’t know if I did want that, because his actions were and still do affect my other children. In the end he was put on a cin plan at his dads, and stays with me 3 nights, but I just want to offer my sympathy to you because I know it’s hard and I can imagine it’s harder as they get older. Sorry I don’t have any advice really but I think the replies you have had are good ones.

I am not in the UK, & perhaps have a TV view of how things work, but when I was referring to your "file" I just meant that the police and/or SS know that this is what he does, so if he does it again they will know it's a lie.

Thinking further on that - if he gets a reputation in the police as a liar then there is a risk that they won't believe him if something ever actually does happen - The Boy who cried Wolf.

Just wanted to reply to all to say I really appreciate all the responses, particularly confirming the potential harm to DS2. I've found it incredibly difficult to navigate this situation for him, because my gut instinct is to wrap him in cotton wool and not let DS1 get anywhere near him, but this is hard due to his age. We have a very honest and open relationship, which again I work hard to maintain balance in as I'm terrified of 'parentifying' whilst also wanting to arm him against manipulative behaviour patterns as he get older.

It is much easier with my younger two as neither has any social media or phone etc.

I do feel, as others say, that as a family we need and deserve to heal. I've tried so hard with DS1, I really have. It's always been so very difficult. I love him so, so much. But I hate the person he seems to be becoming. I know there's a 'better,' nicer him in there somewhere, but it's almost like he's choosing to be the unkind version of himself. It's just so sad.

As I said, SS certainly know, so hopefully a multi-agency approach will be taken.

There are no concerns about or involvement with my younger DC, thankfully.

We used to remind him of the boy who cried wolf from when he was really quite young. He always turned it around to be us 'threatening' him.

The manipulation from his behaviour, and his father, really has done a number on me over the years.

I would still let him talk to his brother but on SM where the messages are retained. I am sure he’d understand if you explain.

Oh OP I feel so sad for you as I've read this.

Do not let him come back home. He's 16. He has a house he happily fled off to. Prime example of you've made your bed you can lie in it. You and your DH need to prioritise your own safety and that of your younger children too.

Blocking how eldest communicates with DS2 is wise. Keep it somewhere it is visible ..... if at all. I'd also bear in mind as your other dcs get older that when he realises they are not "on his side" or doing his bidding they may also become at the receiving end of his malicious lies. I'd shield them as much as possible.

In the future I'd take advice from SS about contact. I'd consider a contact centre so you always have a witness/witnesses. Or if not that then somewhere public and neutral (and I'd have my phone on record too so I had the conversation recording).

You don't need to set him up somewhere housing wise. He can stay with his dad OR social services can help dad in setting him up somewhere.

What he's done to you (and all those other adults too) is awful. Proper career and life ruining stuff. I find it quite chilling.

OP, if you split with ex when DS1 was 2 and your DS2 is 14, am I right in thinking you got pregnant with now DH immediately you met him?

That can’t have been easy for DS1. To be clear, I totally agree you should not allow DS1 back in to your home, I am just trying to understand DS1’s home life when young,

Normally I am for parents to give their child a 2nd or 3rd chance but in this case I think you are right to not have him back.

I think that police and other services should have him on file as being someone who lies and makes things up to protect anyone else in the future.

I find it quite disturbing how he gets involved and makes statements when he hasn’t a clue what’s going on.

There is obviously some sort of power trip happening.

Is his behaviour similar to his father because if it is inbuilt into his dna then it is going to be near on impossible to work through it.

I do think the fact he can’t click his fingers and run back to you because of his own actions might make him think twice about doing this sort of thing in future but someone outside the family needs to point this out to him.
Maybe a police man should sit him down and explain that you can’t tell lies because it will have consequences. It wastes police resources and if you treat people badly then expect the same back

You can’t have him back as you can’t have him holding you to ransom, threatening your career if he doesn’t get his own way.

I think the idea of some halfway house eg can his dad convert a garage or put one of those small cabins in his back garden so he gets used to living independently and having some structure in a college course and some therapy to unpick his reasons for lying and his behaviour might help.

i think he is still very young and I think the next few years he needs monitoring and helping to get him on the right path otherwise you can see how he could end up in jail or worse if he chooses to lie about the wrong person.

Is there a compromise available that you and his father could pay half of boarding school fees each for him or even use a state boarding school? That way he has 2 years at school to turn himself around and everyone gets a break?

It is utterly terrible what he has done to you of course, completely unacceptable.

It is unfair for your younger son to be put in this situation. Get your younger son to block/ignore him on Snapchat, then when he receives messages on another platform contact the police (with evidence) and ask them to explain to your older son that he needs to stop. I think the best thing you can do now is to try and get your older son to understand the police are authority figures and not his personal flying monkey service. I'm not a legal professional but maybe get a solicitor to file for an injunction to make a clear legal boundary? His actions have had consequences, it's important he understands his mother can take action too ( obviously never be alone with him again and don't allow him in your house). He only has 2 years left before he will be held to a much higher standard by society than he is as a child. 6 foot men with antisocial behaviour don't find themselves in good circumstances.

Hi OP

This is a heartbreaking situation. I am so sorry for you and the rest of your family.

I think you are in fact underplaying the harm and malevolence of what your eldest son has done. He has made an incredibly serious accusation against you and has done so formally, through the police. He has possibly permanently destroyed your career. He has caused untold emotional pain, trauma and distress to his mother, stepfather and younger siblings.

He is not a child. He is 16 years old. He has no remorse. He is using and manipulating his younger brother.

I am sorry to say that I think your son is actively dangerous and the next accusation could have even worse ramifications. The apple didn't fall far from the tree, did it?

In your situation this is what I would do:

1. Absolutely do not ever, ever allow him to live with you ever again. Pack his stuff up and get a third party to deliver it to his father's.
2. Only meet him in public, with others present (and obviously not until the current situation is resolved).
3. Have no contact or communication with him until he admits, in writing, that he lied and that it was a false accusation. If he's not willing to do this, then you can't go any further with him. This for me would be the starting point for any future relationship. Without a written apology and admitting he made it up, there would be no support with finding somewhere to live, no money given to him, no nothing. You are allowed to have boundaries even though this is your son.
4. Get your DS2 to delete Snapchat from his phone if you haven't already. Young people I work with have told me that it is by far the most dangerous and troubling app because of the disappearing messages etc. If possible, he should also block his brother on all social media, as the rest of the family have done.

Ones that were stupidly easy to disprove (such as telling his DF the social worker said x about me, which didn't happen).

So what is currently happening is all these lies he told his Dad and his Dad sucked up, because he was getting feedback that you are a 'bad person' is unravelling.

If thats whats been happening previously, I wouldn't be surprised if some of his acting up has been about pleasing his Dad by hurting you. He gets Dad's attention and approval for doing so. Whilst you are framed as the bad guy.

If indeed that is the case, then Dad is currently finding out that your son is a liar and isn't having any of it.

Your DS is no longer getting the approving feedback from Dad nor is he getting the feeling of power and control over you.

Again it breaking his cycle of getting the attention he wants.

This should reassure you, that this is what he (and his father) need...

Just to offer you some hope op , like I said upthread, I had the same or at least similar, lies of violence that are now on my medical records forever, police , SS and Cahms involvement, expelled from school and a stay for my child in foster care.
It has been a very rocky road and at one point put me in hospital with a complete mental breakdown .
However, my child is now an adult, still tricky at times but has a good job and a home of their own . We have a good relationship too.
Adolescence for some kids is truly awful, add in a diagnosis and it can be even worse. Hang on in there my lovely , it will get better xx