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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to live with my child again?

325 replies

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 11:53

This an attention seeking, goady title, sorry, but I've posted about this situation before and got no responses so I'm deliberately braving it in here. It's likely to be long in order to avoid drip feeding, but I'm happy to clarify details I may forget.

As mentioned, I've posted of this before, and I've namechanged because this is outing and I don't fancy the rest of my posting history being attached to this issue.

Long story short, some time ago, earlier this year, my eldest DS had some sort of meltdown. For context, DS is (now) 16, he turned 16 a few weeks ago. His father and I split before he was 2. Ex was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me. I have, however, been extremely happily married to my now DH for 10 years and we have 3 younger DC together: 1 teen and 2 primary aged. DS1 always lived with me/us, and called DH dad through his own choice, though he knows he is SD and has had mostly regular contact with his father.

DS1 was diagnosed with Asperger's aged 5 and has struggled socially and educationally comensurate with this, though he is academically very capable. He is deeply embarassed by his diagnosis, despite our best attempts to destigmatise. We have always accepted and loved him the way he is, however he has also always been an extremely difficult child - beyond that expected with an ASD diagnosis. He is manipulative, deceitful, has been violent when younger, has a history of stealing and of making false accusations of abuse/discrimination in order to deflect from his own misdemeanours - this has been aimed at multiple adults over the years: teachers, step-parents and parents. Living with him has for some years been fraught with tension, due in part to us being on edge waiting for him to do something anti-social, and in part to our fear of enforcing any sort of boundaries because, for many years now, this has resulted in false accusations of physical abuse. He has never been abused, physically or otherwise.

Most recently, I was the one chosen to feel his wrath. It's never been me before. After several incidents at school regarding violence and their suspicion of him vaping/selling vapes on site (I've since found out he is/was, but they've not been able to catch him in the act) I removed his phone. I don't routinely check my teens phones as feel at 15/16 they deserve some privacy and we have solid restrictions in place on them, but he was extremely angry that I'd dared to take it to look as this is 'controlling' He responded by leaving the house at 11pm and going to his Dad's, where he then reported me to the police for an 'assault' that is entirely fabricated. I was arrested the morning after, held for 12 hours and interviewed under caution. I was then released on bail, with conditions that state I am not able to have any direct or indirect contact. This restriction seemed awful at first, but has possibly been a blessing in disguise.

As my username suggests, I am a teacher - well, still a student. I'm half way through SCITT. This investigation has meant I've not been allowed in any schools at all, my training is on hold. I've had to go on medication for anxiety and developed PTSD and agoraphobia. It's been horrendous. DS1 has been placed on a CiN plan whilst at his Dad's - our DC here have no SS involvement at all. It's now approaching my bail date, and DS1 has been messaging DS2 on snapchat. This means there's no trace of their conversation, but DS2 says that DS1 is miserable. He hates his life at his Dad's, he hates his SM and he desperately wants to come home. He claims that 'when' the police ask him if he wants to proceed with prosecution of me, he is going to decline (I'm well aware that's not how this works, but he genuinely believes he can choose whether to press charges or not: too much American TV/films). He has asked DS2 to ask DH and I if he can come home.

So, AIBU to feel like I have to say that no, this can't happen? My youngest DS has ASD too and has found this life change very difficult already. My DD is younger still and I am loathe to model acceptance of such coercive behaviour in the home. DS2 doen't deserve to be used as a go-between (I have not responded to/via DS2 at all and won't do so. I also wouldn't stop him talking to his brother though). My career may well be in tatters before it's even begun and I don't think I could ever relax and feel sure that I won't face this sort of 'punishment' from DS1 again. I've missed him terribly the last few weeks, but I've also slept so much better and I don't feel a constant anxiety when the phone rings of 'what now?' My SCITT have been fantastically supportive and will welcome me back to finish the course when the investigation is concluded with NFA, I would be terrified constantly that it would be ruined again. Not to mention my DH who has been an incredible support, but there's no denying he's found this extremely difficult. Without asking, I know he'll support my decision making either way, but I also know he would also be inclined to want to say no, though he'd be loathe to say it out loud. In short, I think we've all been through enough over the last decade.

But... I'm still DS1's Mum. The thought of him being miserable hurts deeply. I obviously want to make that go away. I just have no idea what to do. Am I being selfish?

Appreciate all viewpoints, but please don't be deliberately unkind, I am still very delicate. Thank you.

OP posts:
Bamboux · 14/04/2023 14:47

Xenia · 14/04/2023 14:42

Is there a compromise available that you and his father could pay half of boarding school fees each for him or even use a state boarding school? That way he has 2 years at school to turn himself around and everyone gets a break?

It is utterly terrible what he has done to you of course, completely unacceptable.

I don't think that someone who behaves like this at 16 is capable of being 'turned around completely' by 18, do you, really?

This isn't stupid childish teenage boy behaviour - vandalism, drugs, getting into fights etc. This is deeply fucked-up and calculated actions which have a high chance of destroying his mother's life in a permanent way. I think this runs a lot deeper than "oh yeah a couple of years in military academy/boarding school/national service will sort him out".

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 14:51

Ktime · 14/04/2023 14:40

OP, if you split with ex when DS1 was 2 and your DS2 is 14, am I right in thinking you got pregnant with now DH immediately you met him?

That can’t have been easy for DS1. To be clear, I totally agree you should not allow DS1 back in to your home, I am just trying to understand DS1’s home life when young,

With the greatest respect, this is irrelevant. I've been deliberately vague with some details to maintain the tiniest bit of dignity and privacy in the thread.

DS1's very early childhood/babyhood were difficult due to his abusive father. I did the best I could as barely more than a child myself to shield him and leave as soon as I could without any help at all.

I had known DH before DS1 was born. He had always been a part of his life in some capacity from before birth.

OP posts:
Floppyelf · 14/04/2023 14:52

He’s not a child, he’s a monster! Stay away from him and try to create distance between ds2 and him. Ds2 has a future ahead of him

Namechangeteach · 14/04/2023 14:56

BringtheJury · 14/04/2023 14:47

Just to offer you some hope op , like I said upthread, I had the same or at least similar, lies of violence that are now on my medical records forever, police , SS and Cahms involvement, expelled from school and a stay for my child in foster care.
It has been a very rocky road and at one point put me in hospital with a complete mental breakdown .
However, my child is now an adult, still tricky at times but has a good job and a home of their own . We have a good relationship too.
Adolescence for some kids is truly awful, add in a diagnosis and it can be even worse. Hang on in there my lovely , it will get better xx

Thank you. I'm so glad to hear things are better for you now. Flowers

And thank you to everyone for reassuring me that boundaries don't make me a selfish, uncaring and abusive mother..

My DC are so precious to me. I love all of them endlessly. This has been such an immensely painful time. I really appreciate the supportive tone to the thread in general.

OP posts:
YouJustDoYou · 14/04/2023 14:58

WimpoleHat · 14/04/2023 12:18

Asperger's or not, he is 16 and he is learning that his actions have consequences

Spot on. You’re not unreasonable not to have him back - you can’t. And you can’t as a direct result of his actions. And this is proper, grown up, serious stuff - it’s not something where he can say “sorry” and it will all go away. What a dreadful situation for you and your family - I really hope that you get a resolution soon. And be kind to yourself. You are doing your very best in truly awful circumstances which aren’t of your making.

This

YouJustDoYou · 14/04/2023 14:59

And setting boundaries is exactly what makes a good parent.

Fidgety31 · 14/04/2023 14:59

My oldest has ASD amongst other issues. I couldn’t and didnt give up on him though even after all the problems he caused, for me and his siblings, over many years .

A friend of mine did give her child up for similar reasons - and that child then spiralled out of control - felt excluded in favour of the ‘new husband and kids ‘

Sounds like your son is crying out for you - and your response is to push him away even more . Very sad situation .

Ooolaaaala · 14/04/2023 15:00

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2023 14:45

Ones that were stupidly easy to disprove (such as telling his DF the social worker said x about me, which didn't happen).

So what is currently happening is all these lies he told his Dad and his Dad sucked up, because he was getting feedback that you are a 'bad person' is unravelling.

If thats whats been happening previously, I wouldn't be surprised if some of his acting up has been about pleasing his Dad by hurting you. He gets Dad's attention and approval for doing so. Whilst you are framed as the bad guy.

If indeed that is the case, then Dad is currently finding out that your son is a liar and isn't having any of it.

Your DS is no longer getting the approving feedback from Dad nor is he getting the feeling of power and control over you.

Again it breaking his cycle of getting the attention he wants.

This should reassure you, that this is what he (and his father) need...

I suspect the X / his DF has been cheerleading behind many previous incidents and maybe even led this one or at least collided with it.

@Bamboux your suggested boundary here is critical:

Have no contact or communication with him until he admits, in writing, that he lied and that it was a false accusation. If he's not willing to do this, then you can't go any further with him. This for me would be the starting point for any future relationship. Without a written apology and admitting he made it up, there would be no support with finding somewhere to live, no money given to him, no nothing. You are allowed to have boundaries even though this is your son

Anything less is colluding with his delusions and selling yourself short.

If the consequences for wasting police time are harsh - then that’s what he needs to feel.

Filament · 14/04/2023 15:02

Bamboux · 14/04/2023 14:45

Hi OP

This is a heartbreaking situation. I am so sorry for you and the rest of your family.

I think you are in fact underplaying the harm and malevolence of what your eldest son has done. He has made an incredibly serious accusation against you and has done so formally, through the police. He has possibly permanently destroyed your career. He has caused untold emotional pain, trauma and distress to his mother, stepfather and younger siblings.

He is not a child. He is 16 years old. He has no remorse. He is using and manipulating his younger brother.

I am sorry to say that I think your son is actively dangerous and the next accusation could have even worse ramifications. The apple didn't fall far from the tree, did it?

In your situation this is what I would do:

  1. Absolutely do not ever, ever allow him to live with you ever again. Pack his stuff up and get a third party to deliver it to his father's.
  2. Only meet him in public, with others present (and obviously not until the current situation is resolved).
  3. Have no contact or communication with him until he admits, in writing, that he lied and that it was a false accusation. If he's not willing to do this, then you can't go any further with him. This for me would be the starting point for any future relationship. Without a written apology and admitting he made it up, there would be no support with finding somewhere to live, no money given to him, no nothing. You are allowed to have boundaries even though this is your son.
  4. Get your DS2 to delete Snapchat from his phone if you haven't already. Young people I work with have told me that it is by far the most dangerous and troubling app because of the disappearing messages etc. If possible, he should also block his brother on all social media, as the rest of the family have done.

Bamboux

Have no contact or communication with him until he admits, in writing, that he lied and that it was a false accusation. If he's not willing to do this, then you can't go any further with him. This for me would be the starting point for any future relationship. Without a written apology and admitting he made it up, there would be no support with finding somewhere to live, no money given to him, no nothing.

I'd agree totally with this. But you say it's likely that your DS will ever admit he made it up. He can't simply have you arrested with false allegations and expect you to overlook it.

Whichnumbers · 14/04/2023 15:03

are you being slefish

you have a dh and other dc o think about. What if next time its dh or one of the other dc in the firing line with this terrible type of action.

TBH id think you were very irresponsible to take him back and put these other people at risk

Your ds maybe "miserable" but he is housed, cared for and safe. Its only his words he is miserable and well he's made his bed

Applesonthelawn · 14/04/2023 15:04

I'm posting as someone who has ASD, although this was undiagnosed in my mid twenties when I asked my mother if I could live with them again when I was released from treatment for anorexia. She immediately refused and it was never discussed again. I was not destructive to other people in the way your son has been, but that's not really the point. My twenties were pretty awful but I do think one of the reasons I was forced to learn how to live was because there was no alternative. So tough love worked, for me, which doesn't mean there aren't better ways towards a reasonable outcome for your son. What I want you to know though is that I understand that for my mother, having me home would just have been too much. Too much worry, too much on her plate given that she was dealing with my alcoholic father and various other things. I am upset even now that she said no but I understand it.

BringtheJury · 14/04/2023 15:13

Fidgety31 · 14/04/2023 14:59

My oldest has ASD amongst other issues. I couldn’t and didnt give up on him though even after all the problems he caused, for me and his siblings, over many years .

A friend of mine did give her child up for similar reasons - and that child then spiralled out of control - felt excluded in favour of the ‘new husband and kids ‘

Sounds like your son is crying out for you - and your response is to push him away even more . Very sad situation .

Op hasn't given up on him, he's with his father. Have fathers given up on their kids if they live with their mothers?
This is the best solution for now, it doesn't mean that it's forever.

Grimbelina · 14/04/2023 15:16

It may be the most loving thing you can do for your son to not have him back in your home (and certainly the safest choice for you and your other children).

Try and support him from a distance (if/when that is allowed). Meet in public places with support so you always have a witness. Do not allow your life to be destroyed. You need to be well and functioning for the rest of your family.

I would also suggest you do as much as you can now in terms of documenting the situation, trying to get more support, looking at alternative living placements (if suitable) before he moves to adult services, where he is likely to receive even less help.

You can still love your son without making yourself vulnerable. Good luck, it is a horrendous situation.

SnarkyBag · 14/04/2023 15:16

I don’t think this is an autism issue but likely a response to early childhood trauma. That’s not a judgement against you OP you were as much a victim.

Your son needs some very specialist help with professionals who understand early trauma. But that aside I wouldn’t have him back living with you. He does not understand the gravity of what he has done and likely won’t. He will spin a narrative in his own head to justify it and will genuinely believe it.

I think you have no choice but to protect yourself and your other children from this. I do think it’s important to monitor and restrict you younger DS’s contact, not as punishment but to protect him. This is all far to complex for him to navigate.

Grimbelina · 14/04/2023 15:17

NVR - non violent resistance work can be useful with very troubled and challenging teens too. It might help you form a framework for supporting your son outside of your home.

Wiccan · 14/04/2023 15:18

@Bamboux you're completely correct . This is truly calculated actions . My DD had been like this all through her teens and we constantly gave her chance after chance and we regret this . She is now in her early 30s and has pretty much destroyed my mental health ,my reputation the lot. All she gets from us now is a text at Christmas and her birthday. I will never heal from the way she has treated me and the lies told to get attention . OP please don't allow your son back you will regret it and it will destroy your life . You need to protect yourself and your family .

ForTheSakeOfThePenguin · 14/04/2023 15:19

Cannot add much to what has been said but if it helps to ease the guilt a bit…

You have spent 16 years trying your best with your child. You and your family need rest and space at this time, let his dad take over, it is his turn and, It is not only fair but the best option to protect your family and yourself at this time. 💐

MsRosley · 14/04/2023 15:21

This time it was violence on your good name, integrity and career prospects, I'd be worried that it could escalate to physical violence as he obviously has very poor impulse control. I'm surprised your DH would contemplate him returning for you home for a millisecond.

For the sake of your marriage, your other kids and your sanity, I would not agree to him coming back. He's made his bed at his dad's and he can lie on it.

It's worth bearing in mind that a large part of this kind of behaviour is genetic. You see narcissism and other 'dark triad' disorders running in families. It's not your fault, and yes, you do grieve for the child you 'lost', for the child you hope he'd be. But it does get easier, once you move into acceptance.

Wishing you all the love and support you deserve, OP.

Beautiful3 · 14/04/2023 15:23

I've thought really hard about your post, as I didn't want to give a knee jerk reaction. Honestly, you cannot have him back. You have to put your other children's safety first, and your own mental health. He will jepodise that with his lies. Also your job is important as it's your income. I'd not contact him, until police say you're allowed to. I'd explain that, " I love you. But it's best for everyone that you stay with your dad. As I fear further allegations and being arrested again. These have had a big affect on my mental health and could have affected your siblings, e.g. being removed by social services."

DyslexicPoster · 14/04/2023 15:24

This must be heartbreaking. I have had something similar but not quite the same. Ds does need to know he has gone too far. If If tried it with dad he would then not have a home. You can't do anything anyway now. I would rush to welcome him back as he might think it's all worked out OK and could do so again. When your allowed to make contact, explain its thrown a bomb into your family home and you need to recover that, work etc. Nothing has to be forever. But I think to be fair to him longer term this is his natural consequence.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2023 15:25

Fidgety31 · 14/04/2023 14:59

My oldest has ASD amongst other issues. I couldn’t and didnt give up on him though even after all the problems he caused, for me and his siblings, over many years .

A friend of mine did give her child up for similar reasons - and that child then spiralled out of control - felt excluded in favour of the ‘new husband and kids ‘

Sounds like your son is crying out for you - and your response is to push him away even more . Very sad situation .

I like how you blame the mother here.

Its not just Mum who has new family, its also Dad.

Indeed it seems to be Daddy he was messaging telling him how evil Mummy was in an effort to get Daddy's attention.

Is it Mum moving on or Dad moving on thats the issue? It could be both, but the fact he's lashing out a Mum and attention seeking from Dad seems to be part of the problem.

The fact he is now messaging his brother saying how miserable he is, and he's been caught out on the lies by the SW.

One of the real problems here, I would guess is that actually Mum and Dad haven't been on the same page, which has inflamed his behaviour because he could pander to one parent by abusing the other.

A reality check for Dad could do a lot of good here. This also makes the son realise the grass perhaps isn't as green elsewhere and perhaps he should stop being such a dick to his Mum in order to score points with Dad.

Mum and Dad both seeing there is a problem that needs addressing, not encouraging is the gateway to change rather than repeating the cycle of Mum being son's punching bag to impress Dad. Dad actually having to deal with the shit himself, is going to get a very difference response to the one the son has been used to.

It may go the other way and spiral, but that could happen even if Mum welcomes her son back with open arms because the son is 'crying out for her'.

The reality is the situation wasn't working before so something HAS to change, because the spiral was already in progress at Mum's house. And Mum wasn't able to solve it on her own. She needs additional outside support, either from the Dad or SS.

The whole point is it has passed the point she could faciliate being the one to support her son because he was crying out for her.

RedToothBrush · 14/04/2023 15:29

BringtheJury · 14/04/2023 15:13

Op hasn't given up on him, he's with his father. Have fathers given up on their kids if they live with their mothers?
This is the best solution for now, it doesn't mean that it's forever.

I think it also needs to be pointed out to @Fidgety31 that the OP hasn't 'given her son up'.

There is a legal situation where she is prevented from having contact with her son.

She can't push him away because she is prohibited from contacting him at present.

The blame being put on the mother here is dreadful. Its clearly a poster projecting and no actually bothering to read what the OP is saying.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 14/04/2023 15:30

If he comes back home, you will always be walking on eggshells. Right now it has interrupted your SCITT, but what happens in, say, 18 months time when you have a job and are in the middle of your probation period? Even if it was always resolved you'd struggle to build a career. Which I know may not be your first consideration but I do think it's worth thinking about.

And what happens if he accuses his brother of something? It sounds like this would have massive negative impact on him too?

I get why you feel guilty and I think it's clear there is more going on than just ASD, but coming back home won't resolve that. At least now, SS are involved and may be able to help him access other support.

They also believe he is safe at his dad's, so whilst that continues, there is no need to have him home.

It sounds like, from his dad's initial response, he knew the accusations against you were untrue?

I think the one concern is what happens if his dad is abusive? Could you talk this over with SS?

Irritateandunreasonable · 14/04/2023 15:32

Don’t have him back, how can you feel safe against unfounded accusations that horribly affect your life, my answer would definitely be no.

However, ofc the police and the CPS take into consideration wether or not he wants to press charges and/or support the case. They can press charges without his support but it’s much harder for them to do so. He definitely gets a say.

Liorae · 14/04/2023 15:34

He does not understand the gravity of what he has done and likely won’t. He will spin a narrative in his own head to justify it and will genuinely believe it.
I disagree. I think he is very well aware indeed of the gravity of his actions.