To not want to live with my child again?

[Namechangeteach]

This an attention seeking, goady title, sorry, but I've posted about this situation before and got no responses so I'm deliberately braving it in here. It's likely to be long in order to avoid drip feeding, but I'm happy to clarify details I may forget.

As mentioned, I've posted of this before, and I've namechanged because this is outing and I don't fancy the rest of my posting history being attached to this issue.

Long story short, some time ago, earlier this year, my eldest DS had some sort of meltdown. For context, DS is (now) 16, he turned 16 a few weeks ago. His father and I split before he was 2. Ex was/is abusive, coercive, controlling and a true narcissist. I am still processing and working through the trauma the relationship left me. I have, however, been extremely happily married to my now DH for 10 years and we have 3 younger DC together: 1 teen and 2 primary aged. DS1 always lived with me/us, and called DH dad through his own choice, though he knows he is SD and has had mostly regular contact with his father.

DS1 was diagnosed with Asperger's aged 5 and has struggled socially and educationally comensurate with this, though he is academically very capable. He is deeply embarassed by his diagnosis, despite our best attempts to destigmatise. We have always accepted and loved him the way he is, however he has also always been an extremely difficult child - beyond that expected with an ASD diagnosis. He is manipulative, deceitful, has been violent when younger, has a history of stealing and of making false accusations of abuse/discrimination in order to deflect from his own misdemeanours - this has been aimed at multiple adults over the years: teachers, step-parents and parents. Living with him has for some years been fraught with tension, due in part to us being on edge waiting for him to do something anti-social, and in part to our fear of enforcing any sort of boundaries because, for many years now, this has resulted in false accusations of physical abuse. He has never been abused, physically or otherwise.

Most recently, I was the one chosen to feel his wrath. It's never been me before. After several incidents at school regarding violence and their suspicion of him vaping/selling vapes on site (I've since found out he is/was, but they've not been able to catch him in the act) I removed his phone. I don't routinely check my teens phones as feel at 15/16 they deserve some privacy and we have solid restrictions in place on them, but he was extremely angry that I'd dared to take it to look as this is 'controlling' He responded by leaving the house at 11pm and going to his Dad's, where he then reported me to the police for an 'assault' that is entirely fabricated. I was arrested the morning after, held for 12 hours and interviewed under caution. I was then released on bail, with conditions that state I am not able to have any direct or indirect contact. This restriction seemed awful at first, but has possibly been a blessing in disguise.

As my username suggests, I am a teacher - well, still a student. I'm half way through SCITT. This investigation has meant I've not been allowed in any schools at all, my training is on hold. I've had to go on medication for anxiety and developed PTSD and agoraphobia. It's been horrendous. DS1 has been placed on a CiN plan whilst at his Dad's - our DC here have no SS involvement at all. It's now approaching my bail date, and DS1 has been messaging DS2 on snapchat. This means there's no trace of their conversation, but DS2 says that DS1 is miserable. He hates his life at his Dad's, he hates his SM and he desperately wants to come home. He claims that 'when' the police ask him if he wants to proceed with prosecution of me, he is going to decline (I'm well aware that's not how this works, but he genuinely believes he can choose whether to press charges or not: too much American TV/films). He has asked DS2 to ask DH and I if he can come home.

So, AIBU to feel like I have to say that no, this can't happen? My youngest DS has ASD too and has found this life change very difficult already. My DD is younger still and I am loathe to model acceptance of such coercive behaviour in the home. DS2 doen't deserve to be used as a go-between (I have not responded to/via DS2 at all and won't do so. I also wouldn't stop him talking to his brother though). My career may well be in tatters before it's even begun and I don't think I could ever relax and feel sure that I won't face this sort of 'punishment' from DS1 again. I've missed him terribly the last few weeks, but I've also slept so much better and I don't feel a constant anxiety when the phone rings of 'what now?' My SCITT have been fantastically supportive and will welcome me back to finish the course when the investigation is concluded with NFA, I would be terrified constantly that it would be ruined again. Not to mention my DH who has been an incredible support, but there's no denying he's found this extremely difficult. Without asking, I know he'll support my decision making either way, but I also know he would also be inclined to want to say no, though he'd be loathe to say it out loud. In short, I think we've all been through enough over the last decade.

But... I'm still DS1's Mum. The thought of him being miserable hurts deeply. I obviously want to make that go away. I just have no idea what to do. Am I being selfish?

Appreciate all viewpoints, but please don't be deliberately unkind, I am still very delicate. Thank you.

Don't be silly, admitting the truth would mean taking responsbility, and facing the very possible legal consequences for lying to the police. He won't do that. Ever.

Well then there’s no possibility that he can come home.

DS1 doesn't have his own room at his dads and the other children there are also primary age. That will be a big part of 'not happy.' He had the biggest room here, we live near school so convenience etc.

DS1 and DS2 are still at school together until the end of GCSEs so I will not be able to guarantee no contact at all.

Realistically - he says he’s unhappy at his dad’s, but he would have said the same about being at home with you. He’s an unhappy boy and will be unhappy wherever he is.

How do I explain to DS2, (who is 14, so not tiny either), about the manipulation and flying monkeys without DS1 then further manipulating by telling DS1 that I would say that etc? I can't stop DS2 speaking to DS1, but my greatest fear at the moment is him being poisoned by DS1's mind games.

You can stop it and you should. If they were not related you would not allow this contact.

I know narcissism is overused as a term/diagnosis but that's what his behaviour sounds like to me. Inventing lies which frame himself as the victim then believing his own lies - I have a family member who does exactly that. They are not autistic though.

It sounds like a dreadful situation. I agree with the other posters that taking him back now - not that you can yet anyway - would be really unwise. He needs to understand the consequences of his actions if there's to be any possibility of him ever growing up to be a functioning, relatively normal adult. I know you love him, so that must be incredibly hard, but taking him back isn't the right thing for you, the rest of your family and in fact him.

Xpost - so it’s more about where was comfortable.

You can’t expect to falsely accuse a family member of a crime and then get your cushy lifestyle back with the click of a finger.

yanbu

He could go after one of his siblings next never mind end your career. He's made a terrible decision that can't ruin gr rest of your family.

I would keep him at his dad's. If you had him back then there'd be nothing to stop him doing this over and over and screwing up school because he's toing and froing constantly.

Do you have a second device that you could use to photograph ds1's snaps? That way you'd have a record. Ds2 may not like it but he's being manipulated now which is worrying.

Hi there,
I haven’t read the full thread but I’m in a similar situation so thought I’d reply. My DS’s behaviour is nowhere near as extreme though.

You’re not being at all selfish….your DS has almost ruined your life. My DS has lived with his dad since the age of 13 because I couldn’t handle his behaviour and felt that I was being abused. Of course if a child abuses a parent they’re kind of stuck because everyone blames them. He’s 20 now and still undiagnosed because his dad is a narcissist who has never listened and never wanted to try to figure out a solution together. His dad has suggested he move back in with me but that can’t happen right now because of our housing situation. In the future I’d be very very wary and may at some point let him have a tiny house in the garden but I know he has the potential to ruin the calm environment we currently have. I would need a lot of support and I know I wouldn’t receive it.

What I would say, and I’ve said this before on here (and probably been accused of armchair diagnosing but I rarely look….just give advice then run!) is that I think that narcissistic men often choose autistic (or HSP at least) women because we’re naive, at least when younger. I think the genes come out in all different ways but children are never diagnosed with narcissism/aspd - it’s always Asperger’s/ASD. Myself and younger DS are autistic and I have inattentive adhd but we’re gentle and kind (unless really provoked!) and we don’t manipulate or lie. Well I might lie to get out of a difficult situation but I never maliciously lie. I suspect that eldest DS has a mix of ASD and narcissism.

Anyway, that’s probably not at all helpful but don’t feel guilty because you have other children to think about. You also have yourself to think about….you’re not condemned to a terrible life just because your DS isn’t happy.

Get DS2 a new phone or new sim card - new number anyway, and ask him not to add DS1 to it.

It's a pita, but it will protect him from his older brothers manipulation.

Go get it and set it up today. Shut the old phone down for the time being.

It does sound like he has developed a personality disorder of some kind as well as having Asperger’s. Most kids with Asperger’s who are as high-functioning as your DS absolutely understand consequences and that they also apply to them. I don’t believe that you are doing your other DS a service by protecting him from discussions about his brother’s behavioural problems. How is he to learn otherwise? He is 14. Don’t keep him in the dark! What if he is only pursuing a relationship with his DB because he is terrified of the consequences if you abandon him by going to jail? Who else will he have? What happens if DS1 turns on him next? I think your DS2 is in a very, very dangerous position having a naive relationship with DS1.
I’m saying this because I grew up with a toxic, tyrannical brother. My DM wouldn’t accept anything other than that he was angelic, despite the drink/drug charges, the many bones of mine he broke, things he stole, people he hurt, etc. I have had to advise my GP not to give him any details about where I live or where my kids go to school, etc, as he was fishing for info there. My parents are dead and I have been NC with him for years. Someone fucker gave him my mobile number. He sent me a photo of himself with “Happy Fucking Birthday Bitch” on my 50th bday and I had a panic attack. He’s 48 and was wearing a rabbit suit.

Actually, ignore me.
I've just seen they're at school together and changing his number will only deal with messages and calls, not other social media.
Sorry, dumb moment.

I’d ask DS2 if he wanted to change schools

he knows full well what he has done. Yes, he might regret it one he realises the consequences, but I wouldn't allow him back either. He can live with Dad or apply to the council for supported housing.

Well he’s learned a hard lesson there I’m afraid. Making up nasty lies and false accusations often comes back to bite you on the bum. I think you’re doing the right thing refusing to respond through your younger son - I’d log it with the social worker too so he/she is aware. In future when you are clear of all this I’d explain that you can’t have him back living with you as you don’t feel it’s appropriate/safe anymore. Either he believes you assaulted him, in which case it’s not safe for him to be with someone abusive, or he knows you did not assault him and cruelly invented it to impact your life as punishment, in which case it’s unsafe for you to be with someone abusive.

Yanbu.

I have recently asked my eldest child's social worker to refer him to the 16/17 accomodation team. I understand how painful it is to accept that your family home is not the right place for one of your children, how ashamed, conflicted, tired and worried you feel, how the battle inside you is raging. Your head can be clear that you have made the right decision, that doesn't stop your heart hurting and it doesn't mean you don't go over and over it, again and again, questioning yourself, tormenting yourself.

What people I have been able to share all the details with have said to me is to remember that my other children exist, are affected by all that is happening, and have as much right as my eldest to happiness and safety. Your eldest son's behaviour affects his siblings and they matter too.

Your son's needs are complex and even if you discount the impact on you, your other children and your husband... isn't it likely to be in his best interests not to return to your home?

No YANBU not to want him back. ASD or not, he was pretty vile to you and he needs to learn.

Why does he want to come home? Is it because he can't get away with his awful behaviour at his Dad's, so he's pulling on your heartstrings?

No stay strong OP. Refuse to let him come back and time will tell if he's really sorry or not.

But my view is that you need to protect the three children living in your house who are more reliant on you with nowhere else to go.

Sane here. Of course I want you protected from him, but if you need to give yourself a more unselfish reason not to have him back, this is it.

Your other children are younger and more vulnerable and impressionable. If he abuses you again, they risk losing you. He could well start accusing his siblings (particularly the 14 year old). You need to protect them from him.

It must be unbearably sad and difficult to walk away from your child. But what he's done over the years, and this action in particular, gives the impression that he is not going to change. He's a continuing danger to the rest of you.

You have a duty of care to your younger children. Focus on this.

Your son has demonstrated that he is a risk to both their emotional and financial security as well as yours. He has abused you. It is not remotely selfish to think you do not wish for him to return to your home for that reason.

Hopefully the charges against you will be dropped, leaving you free to return to work.

The reason he wants to come home, is because he doesn't have the same freedom / power over others at this Dad's. He clearly needs these stronger boundaries. The whole thing about him wanting to return is about him wanting back that control. He is top dog in your home. With his Dad, he hasn't got that preordained status. He has to reestablish himself. He is also the youngest, most junior household member. There is no one else to compete with or otherwise fight for your attention for. He HAS his dad's attention even when he doesn't want it. There is no power game to play at his Dad's. He associates the chaos /drama etc with recieving attention. Thats how he gets more. He can't do that at his Dad's in the same way. You and him are almost locked into this permenant battle for control of his behaviour. He hasn't established his relationship with his dad in this way. He boundary pushed with you, because he knew exactly where the boundary was, how far he could and what he could - until he went too far. He's now found a boundary he can't push back on. Your relationship with him can't be easily reestablished because he's broken it - he's put you in a position where you can't trust him and you can't give him the benefit of the doubt. He NEEDS someone else to show him a different way otherwise he'll slip back into the same habits and routines.

You are not throwing him out. You are not making him homeless. He has a secure home to live in where there aren't any other children present. His Dad can give him full attention without having to consider splitting time with others.

The best thing you can do as his mother is to recognise this at this point.

This arrangement works better for all - including him, especially him, in the long run. With the exception of his step mum. No one who cares about him wants to see this spiral further out of control as that looks like prison.

You need to start framing it in this way, both to yourself and to your children.

Your eldest son has significant additional needs which are hugely impacting on you and the other kids. You haven't got the time/ability to focus solely on your son to the degree he needs. He may not agree with this, but his Dad is better placed to be able to provide the level of support he currently needs. He has a SW who is identifying that there is an ongoing problem and an inability to accept the truth, and a diagnosis which is flawed. Given that he has fabricated lies against you, you don't have a choice but to think about how this impacts on your younger kids in a negative way. He may percieve this as controlling, however the control lies with him because he has created a situation where you could potentially lose your career, income and liberty. You are having to do this, precisely because the situation became out of your control. Its not your wish for things to end up like this. Even now you don't know if you will be able to resolve this incident at this stage. Hopefully you can, but you simply can not allow it to reoccur because of the severity of the implications for him and for you. You do not have a choice for this reason. With his father he has a stable home, he is safe and he is still loved. This isn't about you rejecting him, this is about you now adapting to a reality which poses a threat to you. You still love him, but living with him isn't working. He is now 16, and another incident could also mean he ends up in prison, which is also not what you want. You need to break the cycle you have all ended up in, and the way he sees his relationship with you. You can't continue to be his physical and emotional punching bag because he's not coping with life. And crucially, you DO have an alternative. Thats really a blessing that many others don't have.

I think this CAN be talked though with your DC2 in this way. It will be hard, but you need to stress how it will benefit DC1 in the long run and you are hurting because of it too. You have to give him a little tough love, to help him. And it is still love.

Your son has to be able to demonstrate something has changed. He has to work on his relationship with you now. It can't just be you doing all the work on the relationship. He is old enough to make these decisions himself too, even with an ASD diagnosis. He can't just walk back in the door as if nothing has happened.

Think about it, don't blame yourself for it. There is a point where others have to also step up, rather than it all resting on your shoulders. Thats him, his Dad and the other support from SS etc that he has.

The very best and most loving thing you can do as his mum is let him have the treatment he needs. Which you are not well placed to give. Don't have Mum guilt over that, because its really hard to accept its a problem bigger than you can handle alone. It shouldn't be for you to handle alone either.

Focus on your other responsibilities of picking up the pieces and carrying on for you and the rest of your family.

Wow you have really been through it, bless you for holding it together so well op. I don’t think many could be so calm in this situation. I would let him stay at his dads as previous posters have stated he is no harms way and counselling would be a way forward. Having an asd child you do feel the need to protect them but like any child you need to raise them to understand right from wrong when it comes to the world and he needs to understand this manipulative behaviour could really land someone in a lot of trouble one day. He needs to understand what he has done to you and even offer an apology, this can’t go on. I would only allow him home once counselling has begun and he starts to even acknowledge the consequences of his actions

I mean he's been like this from a young age, weaponised as you say by your abusive ex and he has additional needs- I agree what he has done is abhorrent and unacceptable and you aren't being unreasonable at all; but it sounds like he hasn't ever accessed the support he needs to deal with his needs and his inevitable trauma growing up. I don't mean this as a criticism to you, nor should you have to deal with his behaviour and the heartache it has caused either, but it's a shame social services aren't able to provide long term support to him as he evidently needs it.

Either he believes you assaulted him, in which case it’s not safe for him to be with someone abusive, or he knows you did not assault him and cruelly invented it to impact your life as punishment, in which case it’s unsafe for you to be with someone abusive.

This should be your mantra.

I hadn't realised SM had kids living with her. It sounded like they were elsewhere.

Ultimately she's going to do what she's got to do for them, but honestly thats not your problem thats hers and your ex's.

You have your own kids to consider.

Him coming back before everyone can be confident that the destructive behaviour won't simply recur, that's not in anyone's interests. And will that stage ever be reached? Maybe not...

And I can't see how it's even the least worst option (which, realistically, is what's needed).

Horrible situation but there you go.

At your son's age, it is critical that he feels the full weight of the consequences of his actions. He needs to know that you will no longer be playing any games with him.

You can't have him back under your roof. Not after he's done that and destroyed any trust you had in him. It would give the message that he can make anything up to get attention/punish you, and goodness knows what the next thing would be.
For your own peace of mind, you need to tell the police or whoever monitors bail that he has been attempting contact via his brother. Ask them for advice on safeguarding the children in the family home against unwittingly drawing you into indirect contact and breach of bail.
If your son doesn't want to stay with his dad full time and long term, social services need to get involved with finding a suitable solution to his housing problem.

Sometimes being a loving parent means drawing these hard boundaries. I know it won't be easy for you.