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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A sibling or a private education?

207 replies

Evely · 14/04/2023 00:50

Posting in AIBU for voting.

DH and I discussing, it came up in conversation with family - we can see pros and cons to both sides so we're sat on the fence.

If you had 1 DC and financially could afford to send them to private school but you couldn't afford to send 2 x DC to private school - would you say it would be better to stick at one DC?

Taking into consideration that the catchment state school in your area is OK but not brilliant.

Yabu - it's more important to have a sibling than a private education

Yanbu - stick with one DC and give them the best education you can

OP posts:
greenteafiend · 15/04/2023 01:36

I personally would not pay for a private primary school unless it connected specifically with options for senior; i.e., either it will feed into a private secondary school that you also like, or if you live in a grammar area and the school is about getting kids into the grammar school (cynical, and I do hate the 11 plus system, but if I was FORCED to live in an 11-plus area, I'd play the game).

If the school does not connect directly with a good secondary option, sorry but I wouldn't pay a fortune for a Go Ape style playground and cooking lessons and things like that; I'd use the local state options and just pay for a good holiday club during the holidays with lots of enrichment. You'll need to pay for holiday childcare in addition to school fees (and usually for longer holidays too!) if you use a private primary school.

greenteafiend · 15/04/2023 01:58

Just spotted also, the whole school has 150 children? Are you sure that it is financially viable long-term?

Inflation and the cost of living crisis are making private schools less affordable, it is likely that VAT will be added in a few years, and this is on top of annual 5%-ish fee rises across the sector for the last 30 years. This is putting a lot of pressure on private schools, and it's generally agreed that the pressure will be worst for small, stand-alone private primary/prep schools. We have already seen some closures in this group. I'd check out the financial situation of the school carefully before proceeding. If it is registered charity, I think their financial details may be public knowledge, but perhaps ask on the Education board here as there will be people who know a lot more about this kind of thing.

halfsiesonapotnoodle · 15/04/2023 02:34

I'd stick at one for many reasons, private school or no private school.

marseille · 15/04/2023 05:50

Do people actually think that all of the students who go to private/independent schools go on to be incredibly successful people? Rich and happy? All of them? Gosh no wonder private schools continue to rake in the money.
Even on the law of averages a lot of them will not do well.

Mumma · 15/04/2023 07:07

As an only child, I'd have prefered the sibling.

Bored86 · 15/04/2023 07:43

What a horrible conversation! Another child is something you want because you love kids not a replacement for giving a child and excessively over the top of education. Gross!

summerpoolandsun · 15/04/2023 08:25

This is a hard one. I was an only child and went to a shitty state school. The two things I wanted most were a school with people more like me and a sibling. I was a geek and wanted to meet others who also wanted to work…so actually I’m really torn by your question.

What about a massive age gap between kids? If you can do a fertility check to see you’re ok good health?

I have a nine yo DS and I’m pregnant with a DD. We plan to send our DS to private secondary and put our DD in state primary just like he’s done. Only one set of fees at any one time. Our gap wasn’t for the education solely though, we wanted five years between them but it took four years to conceive, so this it might be a risky strategy if you leave it too long!

Evely · 15/04/2023 08:44

greenteafiend · 15/04/2023 01:58

Just spotted also, the whole school has 150 children? Are you sure that it is financially viable long-term?

Inflation and the cost of living crisis are making private schools less affordable, it is likely that VAT will be added in a few years, and this is on top of annual 5%-ish fee rises across the sector for the last 30 years. This is putting a lot of pressure on private schools, and it's generally agreed that the pressure will be worst for small, stand-alone private primary/prep schools. We have already seen some closures in this group. I'd check out the financial situation of the school carefully before proceeding. If it is registered charity, I think their financial details may be public knowledge, but perhaps ask on the Education board here as there will be people who know a lot more about this kind of thing.

OK thank you! This is the first time we're doing this. What we did was visit a few schools last year, did tours etc and decided on this one because it felt so lovely. But all the conversations were a year ago when the school went through facts and figures and I've misremembered some.

So I checked the paraphernalia we received. It's 18per class and no more than 150 in 'lower school'.

It gives quite a long list of secondary schools that the kids go on to. We live on the border of 2 counties - so the list seems to be split between the two counties. Haven't had chance to go through the senior schools.

But this is all good advice. Thank you!

Like I say we're not from here. We moved out of London when I got pregnant with DD to benefit from more space, garden, bigger house etc. DH and I are originally from the North East.

Most of the children at my DD's nursery will go on to a local prep school - however, we're not in the catchment area for that school. So silly, we're less than a 7 min drive from nursery but we just cross over into a different catchment area where we are. The catchment area the nursery is in- is a pretty nice prep school. Unfortunately our prep school isn't as nice. That's why we started looking at private schools.

OP posts:
Meecrowavay · 15/04/2023 09:13

I have 3 and would say sibling over private school without hesitating. Would be great to afford both, mind you. I come at that from my heart mostly - being given the opportunity to love and be loved (as a sibling/child/parent/extended family) is what life is all about. Although that doesn't mean I don't have limits on the number of children we should have or proper consideration for their financial impact and how we manage that from cradle to flying the nest.

FWIW we moved into a better school catchment area. Cost us a bit - but not x3 school fees.

ChocChipHandbag · 15/04/2023 09:29

That's good, 18 per class is more like it.

"Prep school" is usually the term for private primaries, because they "prep[are]" the children for 7+ and 11+ competitive entry exams to grammar and independent senior schools.

Are you sure that state primaries in your area are calling themselves "prep school"?

If you are going to make a longer term decision about your family size based on whether school fees need to be part of your life, it would be wise to look ahead at the landscape for senior schools, as that is when the big differences between state and independent can really emerge. Do you think you could afford to send two to independent secondary if you saved the money now by going state primary and tutoring for the 11+? That's quite a common approach and could be the right compromise for you. Also, are you and your husband likely to advance in your careers and be higher earners in the future?

I can fully see the attraction of a nurturing primary with lovely facilities and small class sizes. Our son is in one, but our financial situation is different to yours. However I know his contemporaries at the local primary are doing fine, and in general you get less value for money by paying at primary level than you do at secondary- remember that as this level you can help a lot at home as you will understand the work they are doing- compare that with trying to help a teen with an A level syllabus in a subject that you never studied. The kids aren't half as aware of the fact that facilities might be a bit worn and lacking and the teachers can control behaviour in younger kids more easily.

ChocChipHandbag · 15/04/2023 09:31

Meecrowavay · 15/04/2023 09:13

I have 3 and would say sibling over private school without hesitating. Would be great to afford both, mind you. I come at that from my heart mostly - being given the opportunity to love and be loved (as a sibling/child/parent/extended family) is what life is all about. Although that doesn't mean I don't have limits on the number of children we should have or proper consideration for their financial impact and how we manage that from cradle to flying the nest.

FWIW we moved into a better school catchment area. Cost us a bit - but not x3 school fees.

My only child is both loving and loved, and has extended family. You are very rude to suggest that an only child is deprived of love.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 15/04/2023 10:12

Evely · 14/04/2023 23:12

If it's a serious question I will answer it.

The specific fee paying school my DD has a spot on - is set in acres of land. It has a full climbing wall, and a sort of 'go ape' adventure play ground. The kids learn abseiling and sailing. They have their own swimming pool and tennis courts. They learn archery. It has a fantastic music department. They have one of the best technology departments in the country. It scored excellent across every inspection and won a school of the year award. Class sizes are kept at 30 - the whole school has less than 150 children. Each child has a key worker throughout school. They have a kitchen for cooking and do design and technology. The teachers and headmasters were lovely. We had a full school tour and chance to ask loads of questions and they've been lovely throughout. The reviews are fabulous everywhere all over the Internet.

The local school takes 80 kids each year per year group. It is failing in some areas. It was rated 'good' by ofsted with recommendations. It has a concrete playground, and a gym. It doesn't offer any exciting sport type opportunities, nor offers cooking or design. The reviews are not great - mostly by parents who have kids subjected to bullying.

That's the exact choice I'm facing for DD. We can't afford to send two children to the fee paying school.

I have read this post several times and I am honestly really struggling to understand why anyone who doesn't have money to burn would choose private education for the reasons that you have outlined here. That absolutely isn't a criticism - we all have different priorities and it's for you to spend your money in whatever way you choose. I just don't get it.

I mean, the sports facilities do sound amazing, and far beyond what any state primary school could offer. My dd only had the chance to try stuff like abseiling, archery, climbing and sailing on school residentials, and not as part of her regular PE. They didn't have their own pool or tennis courts either, though they did have use of the outstanding facilities at the local university as well as the local leisure centre. However, if my dd had fallen in love with one of the activities through trying it on a residential, I could have easily facilitated her doing this outside of school for a fraction of the cost of private school fees, with the added benefit that it would give her access to a different group of friends in addition to the ones she made at school.

Same with music, though the provision at my dd's state primary happened to be outstanding in this area in any case. But my own state school was pretty average with regard to music so my parents facilitated ultra-musical dd to do it outside of school instead. She is now doing the same with her son.

Re design and technology, this is part of the national curriculum for state primary school children so I'm surprised that your local school doesn't offer it. Academies and free schools don't actually have to follow the NC if they decide not to, but I think it would be pretty hard for them to meet the ofsted requirement of offering a broad and balanced curriculum if they cut out whole subject areas, so not sure how that works. DD's school certainly didn't have any fancy facilities to write home about, but this didn't stop them doing some pretty cool projects at primary school - I remember them making little lamps, designing and making photo frames, building solar powered cars etc. Again, they often had input from the local uni, and kids who showed a particular talent in that area were invited to go and do workshops at the uni etc. Her school did have a kitchen and they did cooking from reception onwards, though not terribly often. I think this was more about space in the timetable than lack of facilities though. Can't remember if cooking is a NC requirement or not off the top of my head, so maybe some schools don't offer it. I would be surprised if many don't though.

I actually see the 80 children per year group as a good thing, not a negative, so I am struggling to understand your perspective on that. Presumably you understand that 80 in a year group doesn't mean 80 in a class?! Infant class sizes are generally not permitted to go over 30 children per class in any case (there are some exceptions). They can exceed 30 in KS2 but in our experience, they rarely went much beyond that. DD's primary class typically hovered at around 28-31, with lots of smaller group teaching mixed in. E.g. dd used to get taken out as part of a group of 5 or 6 kids who were particularly good at maths. This is where the bigger year-group cohort was advantageous in my view, as there is more potential to find kids who are working at similar levels to your dc and/or kids who share similar interests etc. I would feel that a year group of 30 would be rather limited. I do understand why some people would prioritise small class sizes if that year group is split into two classes of 15, for example, but that doesn't seem to be the case from what you have said. And there are very few economies of scale for a school with only 150 children, so the fees that you are paying wouldn't necessarily stretch very far after they have paid for all of the lovely facilities that you have mentioned. That would definitely be a concern for me - if they are charging typical private school fees, then either they're cutting corners elsewhere, or their business model is not very sustainable imo.

As for bullying...it can happen in any school. Private schools may or may not be good at dealing with it. Same goes for state. It isn't about the sector.

I am not knocking your choice. If you feel that it's worth paying for all the shiny facilities because you think it will give your dc a better quality of life or whatever, then that's a totally valid choice. I just don't understand it at all, personally. Having ended up with an only child not through choice (secondary infertility), we could have comfortably afforded private school fees for dd, but we looked at the various options and concluded it wasn't worth it. The local private schools did have beautiful buildings and great facilties, but this just seemed like superficial gloss to me. When you actually drilled down and looked at the quality of the education on offer, there wasn't really any difference, and I felt that it would be easy to fill any gaps with regard to extracurricular activities etc by doing stuff outside of school. Fair enough if your evaluation of the options is different - you will be looking at different individual schools in any case - but I struggle to get my head around why you think it would be worth investing tens of thousands of pounds for the things that you have mentioned.

But anyway, regardless of all that, it doesn't really sound like you want a second baby. I think it's fine to stop at one if that's what you want, and there are many advantages to it. We didn't plan to have only one child, and I worried about dd not having a sibling for a long time, but actually I didn't need to. She has thrived as an only child. She has brilliant social skills, lots of friends and is never lonely. She has never wanted a sibling and has always said that she can't miss what she never had. She also notes that, while some of her friends have lovely relationships with their siblings, many don't get on and me have siblings who make their lives distinctly more difficult.

And as she has seen me dealing singlehandedly with my elderly parents despite having a sibling, she knows that having siblings wouldn't necessarily make a difference at that stage of life either! So don't feel that your child will miss out if you decide not to have another.... there are no guarantees about how they will feel either way. So you need to do what's right for you, and frankly, you don't sound sold on the idea of another baby!

And while I don't really see the benefits of private education particularly myself, I think there is an element of truth in the fact that having one child enables you to give that child advantages and opportunities that you might not be able to afford if you had more than one. For us, that was as much about time and logistics as it was about financial resource. For example, dd has a hobby that has involved travelling to different parts of the country at weekends, overnight stays etc. It has been incredibly easy for me to facilitate this because I haven't had other kids to think about, whereas for families with siblings, it is more complicated. They either have to split the family up for the weekend, with one parent going to the activity and the other staying at home/going to a different activity with a different child, or the other kids have to trail along with the one doing the activity, sitting on screens to pass the time etc. And on quite a few occasions, kids have been told that they can't go because it won't fit around the wider family etc. This is something that dd has really appreciated as an only child because we have had the freedom to take every opportunity that has come her way - and it hasn't made her spoilt in the slightest, she recognises how lucky she has been in this regard. One of the many unexpected benefits of having an only child that I hadn't really thought of previously.

Meecrowavay · 15/04/2023 10:15

@ChocChipHandbag I didn't suggest that though Hmm

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 15/04/2023 10:20

Oh, sorry, missed your post clarifying the class size. That makes more sense. I can see why some parents might think it's worth paying for smaller class sizes, expecially if your child is likely to need a bit more attention than the average kid. I'm sure that smaller class sizes are easier for teachers to manage. That said, I never felt that dd lacked attention in bigger classes so it wasn't really an important factor for us.

ChocChipHandbag · 15/04/2023 10:28

Meecrowavay · 15/04/2023 10:15

@ChocChipHandbag I didn't suggest that though Hmm

Oh but you did!

You advised the IP to have a second child because "being given the opportunity to love and be loved (as a sibling/child/parent/extended family) is what life is all about."

So it obviously follows that her child would not be given that opportunity if she chose not to have a second. How else could that be interpreted?

For someone who claims to prioritise love as much as you do, you are remarkably insensitive to the feelings of others.

ChocChipHandbag · 15/04/2023 10:32

Lovely, insightful post @MrsBennetsPoorNerves.

Peppadog · 15/04/2023 10:38

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I completely agree with this post. So much of the advantages of private school are gloss and when you think of the sheer cost, and what you can achieve outside school for a fraction of the cost it's mind blowing. I also think a larger school is an advantage personally. I'd far rather have more choice of who to be friends with and the opportunity to get away from those that I didn't like.
Think back to school days and all the horrendous cliques and fallings out that happen. In a larger school you can move classes, you can hang out with a different group, more likely to find people like yourself. A minimum of two classes per year is important when I look at a school as I know lots of children who have had to move classes for various reasons.

Meecrowavay · 15/04/2023 10:38

@ChocChipHandbag I feel this is something you're sensitive to and you're taken meaning from what I wrote which wasn't intended. Having the opportunity to love/be loved is a wonderful thing- whether it's one child or many. Whether it's step children, nieces, nephews, friends... the list goes on. My answer is in response to OP's question. If I had the choice I'd choose the opportunity (used this word carefully as opportunity doesn't always equal a result) to experience that love (for myself and others) over a private education. Flowers

kkneat · 15/04/2023 11:02

What a bizarre question. Do you want another child or not?

Evely · 15/04/2023 11:24

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves @ChocChipHandbag

Thank you, you've both been so helpful. Wish I could have you round for coffee, haha! Definitely given me lots to think about. I think when we moved to the area we saw the two local schools both rated good and people talked about the area as 'having good schools' - one of the reasons we picked to live here. But it's been since living here that we realised we picked the wrong side of the catchment area and living here and meeting parents etc that we've come to realise that our local school, reputation wise, is not as good as the other one. DH and I said well that's ok because we could go private and we set about doing school tours.

But I think I can safely say now DH and I need to do lots more thinking, research, reading, and you've given us so much more to consider.

OP posts:
Evely · 15/04/2023 11:45

greenteafiend · 15/04/2023 01:58

Just spotted also, the whole school has 150 children? Are you sure that it is financially viable long-term?

Inflation and the cost of living crisis are making private schools less affordable, it is likely that VAT will be added in a few years, and this is on top of annual 5%-ish fee rises across the sector for the last 30 years. This is putting a lot of pressure on private schools, and it's generally agreed that the pressure will be worst for small, stand-alone private primary/prep schools. We have already seen some closures in this group. I'd check out the financial situation of the school carefully before proceeding. If it is registered charity, I think their financial details may be public knowledge, but perhaps ask on the Education board here as there will be people who know a lot more about this kind of thing.

Also very good advice. Again hadn't considered this. Although I did get the school number wrong it's 150 for lower and 150 for upper school. The school is divided. So the whole school is 300.

OP posts:
LaLaFlottes · 15/04/2023 11:58

Our DD is an only child. We did send her to a private school, and then she attended an excellent local state sixth form college. This has worked out well for her and she's enjoyed the opportunities and I believe she flourished in the smaller class sizes and was able to reach her potential.

However we were quite comfortable with our decision to have one child. The private education was a nice outcome of this, we couldn't have done it for two, but it wasn't really part of our decision making.

I am an only child which may have influenced our decision however we gave it a lot of thought and realised that we were happy as we were. I would start here, do you really want to have another child? If so, then I would say go for it, but if you're not sure, then don't and perhaps a private education will be a nice side effect of that.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 15/04/2023 12:08

Evely · 15/04/2023 11:24

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves @ChocChipHandbag

Thank you, you've both been so helpful. Wish I could have you round for coffee, haha! Definitely given me lots to think about. I think when we moved to the area we saw the two local schools both rated good and people talked about the area as 'having good schools' - one of the reasons we picked to live here. But it's been since living here that we realised we picked the wrong side of the catchment area and living here and meeting parents etc that we've come to realise that our local school, reputation wise, is not as good as the other one. DH and I said well that's ok because we could go private and we set about doing school tours.

But I think I can safely say now DH and I need to do lots more thinking, research, reading, and you've given us so much more to consider.

Glad it was helpful, OP. I would love to come round for a coffee!Grin

Good luck with your research, whatever you end up deciding!!! You sound like lovely, caring parents, so I'm sure that your dc will thrive no matter what you decide!

redskylight · 15/04/2023 12:11

It's interesting that your description of the private school - other than the technology department - doesn't mention academics at all. And that, you were happy for your DC to go there thinking that the class sizes were 30 (which as said, is pretty large for a private school).

Whilst the environment and facilities sound amazing, your child will not spend most of their day doing archery. And actually there are benefits in joining an archery club out of school - both from the basis of mixing with different children, and in that the coaching will be more specialised, if that is something your child has an interest in. I'd be careful you haven't been seduced by the window dressing and look at what it provides actually in terms of education.

Remember also that there are benefits of going to a community school (and like PP, I don't think you mean "prep school") in terms of social development, local friends etc.

IverGo · 15/04/2023 12:13

I would 100% choose to have a sibling for my child.

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