Drag vs cultural misappropriation

[marahippo]

I'd like to preface by saying I am all for LGBQT+ rights.

However I can't see why we tolerate men pretending to dress as women with over the top make up and clothing. These are not trans men, these are men who dress up with the sole purpose to mock and humiliate for entertainment. They talk about "fannies", grab their artificial boobs, dress like no woman would really dress and make a mockery/objectify women as sexual objects.

Even the names are designed to offending- I give you a few examples:
Cheryl Hole
A'Whora
Ginger Minj

Why is this acceptable?
The days of dressing up and pretending to be a different race/culture for entertainment is now unacceptable. Why is "sexual misappropriation" different?

I agree OP.

Haven't time to read the thread yet but i'm sure some posters are saying some people find it funny so that makes it ok.

Lots of people used to laugh at lots of things we now find distasteful and wrong. Off the top of my head i can think of Benny Hill, Black and White Minstrels, some of the bits of Little Britain.

Times change.

Lenny Henry used to be on the Black & White minstrel show. People also defended the show because it was 'funny'.
Lenny Henry says he was used as a ‘political football’ after appearing in blackface minstrel show | The Independent

I don’t think it’s right to conflate drag with racist blackface/yellow face/red face/brown face because those being made fun of can’t do whiteface. A few attempts have been made, but been squashed. So it’s simply not done anymore because it was always punching down.

With drag it goes both ways. Drag Queens do comedy- making fun of the differences between the sex stereotypes and do creative fashion walks. Drag Kings do the exact same thing. So both sexes have equal opportunity to poke fun at each other and largely, their acts are humorous social criticism of sex stereotypes and restrictive gender roles, dress and so on. It’s punching up against the restrictions of gender, against society.

It’s not punching down on women or a minority- it’s subverting the restrictions of gender.

The Blackface correlation: I explained it. & related it to the White Male privilege you don't really want to tackle so hey, let's throw something else in the mix. Read it. Or don't.

But you didn't explain it. You just told me I was wrong. I don't know how you got that I don't want to tackle white male privilege from anything I've said.

You will protect privilege at all costs. Even Blackface being thrown in the mix as a diversion is related somewhere on thread solely to how non-White men feel. It's not as if all non-White people are male.

How am I protecting privilege by objecting to drag? I'm capable of caring about more than one thing, objecting to drag doesn't mean that's all I care about. Where has anyone said that all non white people are male? Why is an offensive caricature of women by men, not comparable to an offensive caricature of black people by white people?

I get you don't agree with me, which is your right, but that doesn't make me wrong/stupid/racist.

(And by the way, I don't think that blackface is exactly the same as drag, or that black people are in exactly the same position vis a vis structural equality as women - black people have had it far worse - it's an analogy, but I don't think anyone could claim it is perfect. Even those on this thread who like drag accept that sometimes it is sexist, even if its intention is to be funny, so why is it acceptable to have something that is "sometimes sexist" if "sometimes racist" is not ok?)

I think it is deeply ignorant, insulting and plain desperate to equate drag with blackface. You are effectively saying that women in society today are as oppressed, marginalised and mistreated as black people have been in the UK, Europe and Western countries throughout the ages.

What the fuck is this nonsense? So we can only compare women today to how black people were treated historically? Why is that the rule then? Why not compare how women were treated historically too? We were property, could be legally raped and beaten by our husbands, weren’t allowed to act on stage so men played our roles, couldn’t have credit, could be sectioned for having an orgasm, could be legally restricted to certain jobs, couldn’t be in politics, couldn’t be on a jury…the list goes on.
Fuck off with minimising women’s oppression throughout history.

Sorry, you’re wrong.

@Naunet
your ignorance is truly astounding. What exactly has drag performance art got to do with maintaining the oppression of women in society? Other than you just don’t like occasionally being the butt of their jokes?

It's no different to blackface

Btw drag existed in bygone ages but women’s activists were far more bothered about getting the vote & stuff like that……

Do you feel the same way about blackface?

I listed examples of women’s oppression and that makes me ignorant?! That’s a Twitter level argument right there.😂

No, it’s misogynistic and hateful.

Loved your post.

Yes, because that was yet another way in which men oppressed us. Luckily drag queens could take off their wigs, stop calling themselves she, and go cast their vote though.

If they were being Gary the bloke in make up and high heels then maybe that would be subverting the restrictions of gender but playing a female character is just embedding them.

I’ve been to drag shows with Drag Queens and Drag Kings…there was no misogyny or hate there. I really think people are judging based on the surface, without any real understanding of the profound differences between drag and blackface.

I don’t agree. Disney Princesses embed gender stereotypes by glorifying and romanticising them, drag queens and kings make fun of gender stereotypes which tears them down and works to break us out of the boxes we are put in due to our sex.

Dear god @Naunet the point of this thread is comparability. The equating of drag with black face in current times. And you respond to my post with a screaming ‘how dare you minimise oppression of women in society’ and list a load of examples. Ridiculous.

point your anger at other deeply ingrained constructs that are perpetuating current levels of inequity against women in todays society. They exist, drag is not one of them.

Not if they were a working class man. Most men in the U.K. didn’t have the vote until women had the vote.

No dear, you tried to compare black history to modern day women’s lives, because you know that’s the only way to make your argument seem reasonable. Compare like for like, women’s history with black history, or both modern day - unless you’re saying there would be no issues with bringing blackface back now, because black people are no longer oppressed like they were?

I can see you’ve really put some deep thought and analysis into your opinion.

No, they still had it before most women. Only specific women were first allowed the vote, the same as it had previously been for men.
By the way, black men got the vote before women.

@Naunet erm you are still showing no understanding of why blackface is a problem if you think my argument is problematic because I am mentioning historic racism.

Exactly this.