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Original poster

Drag vs cultural misappropriation

217 replies

marahippo · 13/04/2023 21:44

I'd like to preface by saying I am all for LGBQT+ rights.

However I can't see why we tolerate men pretending to dress as women with over the top make up and clothing. These are not trans men, these are men who dress up with the sole purpose to mock and humiliate for entertainment. They talk about "fannies", grab their artificial boobs, dress like no woman would really dress and make a mockery/objectify women as sexual objects.

Even the names are designed to offending- I give you a few examples:
Cheryl Hole
A'Whora
Ginger Minj

Why is this acceptable?
The days of dressing up and pretending to be a different race/culture for entertainment is now unacceptable. Why is "sexual misappropriation" different?

OP posts:
defsilent · 13/04/2023 23:58

I find it offensive - it is certainly not in support of women.

Rummykitten · 14/04/2023 00:04

I totally agree with the OP. Still haven’t seen anybody explain how drag/womanface is different from blackface. Simply saying “it’s just for fun” or “they aren’t intentionally mocking women” doesn’t make it acceptable. Would blackface be acceptable if the ‘performer’ promised he wasn’t racist and wasn’t aiming to mock, but was just making goodnatured jokes about harmless stereotypes? I think not.

StaunchMomma · 14/04/2023 00:20

The sole purpose is entertainment.

The names are supposed to be funny.

Not to you, clearly, but millions do like those particular queens.

I don't find it offensive in any way, nor do I think it's anything like cultural misappropriation.

Likening drag to black face is ridiculous, IMO. Drag artists often speak about the strong women in their lives who have supported them. It's a labour of love, not hate.

Mangogirl12 · 14/04/2023 00:27

StaunchMomma · 14/04/2023 00:20

The sole purpose is entertainment.

The names are supposed to be funny.

Not to you, clearly, but millions do like those particular queens.

I don't find it offensive in any way, nor do I think it's anything like cultural misappropriation.

Likening drag to black face is ridiculous, IMO. Drag artists often speak about the strong women in their lives who have supported them. It's a labour of love, not hate.

The sole purpose is entertainment.

Exactly the same with the Black Minstrel shows. The audiences were laughing hard.

The names are supposed to be funny.

MOLESTIA Child,
Ann Abortion,
Miss Carriage
etc

are NOT FUNNY to any decent, normal, warm-blooded human being.

Drag artists often speak about the strong women in their lives who have supported them. It's a labour of love, not hate.

The white men who participated in Black Minstrels often spoke about the slaves in their lives and how valuable they were to them.

It is the EXACT....SAME.....THING.

And you know it. It is deeply offensive. It mocks women. You've just been too programmed to accept it, and too desensitised to make the connection.

maddy68 · 14/04/2023 00:37

Are you being offended for something to be offended at sake?

Ridiculous

Also cultural appropriation o don't always agree with. If a blonde person wants corn rows for a hair style then why shouldnt they? They look good !

Life has just become silly

SemperIdem · 14/04/2023 00:51

nothingcomestonothing · 13/04/2023 22:28

The days of dressing up and pretending to be a different race/culture for entertainment is now unacceptable. Why is "sexual misappropriation" different?

Because it only affects women, so it's not important. Blackface and other offensive representations of oppressed groups are offensive to men. Womanface is only insulting to women so it's just a joke/inclusive/shut up bigot. It really is that simple.

Exactly this.

Bazinga007 · 14/04/2023 01:06

Not a fan at all. It's ugly blokes dressing up as ugly women, making crap crude jokes at the expense of women.

roaringmouse · 14/04/2023 01:25

Totally agree OP. I went to a drag show once, many years ago, and found the whole sexual innuendo thing incredibly tedious. But personal taste aside, I don't understand how if 'blackface' is now deemed acceptable, 'womanface' isn't also.

roaringmouse · 14/04/2023 01:25
  • deemed unacceptable
marseille · 14/04/2023 02:22

Hate drag with a passion. Men prancing about miming the words to songs they can't sing. Never seen the point.
And no it is not pro-women

Notarealmum · 14/04/2023 03:15

I’m interested to know what people think about ‘ladyboy’ shows - biological men who look like (generally) beautiful women - not parodying women, I wouldn’t say, or particularly comedic for that matter.

Cheekymaw · 14/04/2023 03:22

Agree, OP.
Some drag used to be quite amusing.
Now it's sleazy, sexist shite.

DeeCeeCherry · 14/04/2023 03:49

The days of dressing up and pretending to be a different race/culture for entertainment is now unacceptable

What are you talking about? It's not versus/either or. If you can't make a point without throwing in yeah but Black people style commentary then you lack discernment.

As for your examples - Comparing White privilege in dress up costume to racism - you really don't have a clue.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 14/04/2023 03:54

Lordy, black face? Tell me you're white, without telling me you're white. Please don't. My kid got called the N word last week in primary school. You have no clue at all if you are comparing the two. This is embarrassing. This is white feminism does not represent all feminism. Shot like that.

MockneyReject · 14/04/2023 03:59

'You'll find drag queens are the biggest supporters of women'.
Where is this happening?
I've not seen this. I've not noticed a significant drag queen presence at women's rights marches or protests, 'Let Women Speak' events, protesting against men in women's sports etc. Nor supporting feminists in those debates, online.

DeeCeeCherry · 14/04/2023 03:59

Blackface and other offensive representations of oppressed groups are offensive to men

Another dumb comment. Who are you speaking for? Blackface presumably isn't offensive to Black people who aren't men in your uninformed mind it seems.

If you want to be racist just own it, no need to pretend it's all about men in dresses.

I know racists are dim but much of this thread is even beyond that. How you'll ever make any headway re your fuss about Drag when you can't even stick to the subject at hand without throwing in diversions to trip yourselves up with, God alone knows. If indeed it is really about Drag, which I doubt.

Feelinglow27 · 14/04/2023 04:04

Totally agree OP

MockneyReject · 14/04/2023 04:23

Blackface was the group with the most power (whites) using stereotypes (exaggerated big lips laziness, stupidity) to mock the group with the least power (blacks).
Womanface is the group with the most power (men) using stereotypes (exaggerated big breasts, bitchiness, stupidity)
to mock the group with the least power (women).

tobee · 14/04/2023 04:26

MockneyReject · 14/04/2023 04:23

Blackface was the group with the most power (whites) using stereotypes (exaggerated big lips laziness, stupidity) to mock the group with the least power (blacks).
Womanface is the group with the most power (men) using stereotypes (exaggerated big breasts, bitchiness, stupidity)
to mock the group with the least power (women).

Yes this

MrsMikeDrop · 14/04/2023 04:31

Only a white person would think to compare the two. Smh at you OP

UnderPressureLikeACustomerInALushStore · 14/04/2023 04:49

Woman face 😂😂

Whatever next. No wonder people take the piss out of us.

blubberball · 14/04/2023 05:17

I'm not personally offended by drag, but I can see the points people are making and why some find it offensive.

I've enjoyed Mrs Doubtfire, and comedy sketches with men dressed as women in the past.

Drag seems to be dated and progressive at the same time. Dated to be dressing up and mocking women, but progressive because men dressing up as women is now right on, or something.

The men dressing up as women are taking risks and I'm sure get their share of abuse from all sides. Women are living with risks every day.

As a woman, I think that it probably belongs in the past. At the same time, if people want to dress up and put on make-up, I don't really care. I'm very conflicted about it.

TeeBee · 14/04/2023 05:35

Totally agree with you OP.

DeeCeeCherry · 14/04/2023 05:44

MockneyReject
Blackface was the group with the most power (whites) using stereotypes (exaggerated big lips laziness, stupidity) to mock the group with the least power (blacks).

White Men.

Womanface is the group with the most power (men) using stereotypes (exaggerated big breasts, bitchiness, stupidity)
to mock the group with the least power (women).

White Men.

But the pull of and alignment with that White patriarchal privilege means White feminism simply can't bring itself to address the issue directly. Hence the 'Blackface' commentary thats normally no more than 3 posts in on this type of thread, designed to bring on a back and forth about that.

It's just diversionary talk for the sake of it and I can't imagine anyone pulling this offensive comparison trick - which isnt the 'gotcha' some seem to think it is - gives a shit about Blackface.

daretodenim · 14/04/2023 06:42

I think that many women are so used to living with underlying threat from men (as in walking home alone at night we'd be more concerned about a lone man on the street than a lone woman), and in general being paid less, being treated differently by doctors etc that unless something happens personally to shove in our face that we're being treated differently because we're female, we don't think we are. It's normal. So the idea that men are prancing around in "woman face" seems both ridiculous and offensive when compared with blackface.

And it's true that misogyny/sexism and racism are not the same.

But how about I tell you there's a place where a Group A are paid less than Group B, that Group A are not believed as much about their pain levels or medical symptoms as Group B, that two people a week from Group A are killed by people in Group B that they were in a relationship with, that Group A are frequently expected to take on more household tasks than Group B (including ones that benefit Group B), and that if members of Group A are raped by Group B then the Group B'er will almost definitely get away with it as rape prosecution levels are at 1.4% and that from tween years onwards, children in Group A are subject to degrading sexual comments from Group B. Does that sound like two equal groups? And then we're told that members of Group B dressing up as caricatured versions of Group A and mimicking them and mocking their bodies is "fun".

Woman face and blackface aren't the same. But that doesn't make woman face ok either.

If the men who do drag are real supporters of women, why do they find the smell of our genitals disgusting and something to joke about? Why do they find names that imply our sexual objectification as fun? How exactly are they doing anything to make women's place in society stronger, while they're demeaning us?

I think there are some men with great make up skills. I'm sure some they've been through terrible experiences too. But I've also been through terrible experiences- and they're almost all because I'm female. We're not supposed to refer to people as chavs or dress up like we come from a poor area of town (I came from one btw) because that's seen as unacceptable, yet drag is somehow protected from criticism.

We're not supposed to "punch down", unless it's a man doing it to a woman. Then it's funny.

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