Dsis is neglecting her own child

[aunty2]

I know neglect is a big word to use, but at this point I'm at my wits end and had enough. I will be careful on how to word this as don't want it to be outing.

I want to start off by saying I love my sister, I know she is a good person, but life hasn't been kind to her and consequently she has derailed quite abit which unfortunately impacts the kids the most negatively. I can't respect her as a mother anymore.

Dsis has 3 children and lives with their dad. They don't have a healthy relationship, that is a whole different thread.

My concern is dnephew. He has been sick for quite a while with this chronic symptoms that won't seem to go. On the outside my nephew looks and seems fine. I've constantly pointed out to dsis and family his symptom doesn't seem right and needs checking upon. He is 6. This has been ongoing for a year now until recently his symptom has got worse and means that he is constantly throwing up. Again he still looks well but the poor thing is suffering and has become normalised to being sick. Me, dparents, and my siblings have all said nephew needs to go to the drs asap. However everytime we say this dsis comes up a list of excuses.

First it was the drs can't see him on the same day

Then it was they won't want to know it's not that bad

Then it was oh well I'm working and bla bla bla.

Thing is dsis constantly makes time for herself and her unhealthy needs. Meanwhile my nephew isn't being prioritised. I can't even book the appointment for him as I have no idea what his Dr is. We are all worried he will suffocate on his own sick in the night. I'm really getting angry about dsis and her behaviour, and also their waste of space dad who can never be held responsible for anything. That child is being failed by his own parents.

What do I do? Aibu to have ago at dsis. I've had enough of being nice about it. My only worry is by confronting dsis she will distance herself and nephew from me which will mean I won't be able to know how he is or what is going on.

Again, I'll leave you to swoon over the sound of your own voice, actually this time.

fingers crossed! 😂

@whyhelloo can you get otc inhalers in the UK ?

What exactly is the ‘legal SS threshold’ you make reference to? I’m curious…..

Best to ignore @whyhelloo
we all know that “legal SS threshold” is the posters making shit up!

🤣🤣

Wow, I'm actually a bit confused... I'm sure those 2-syllable words would be self-explanatory to most people, so I can only imagine the both of you are acting oblivious / feigning illiteracy on purpose – or just have a really poor vocabulary? @LolaLu1980

The right to undisturbed family and private life is enshrined in law (ECHR art 8 at first but now incorporated in the UK under HRA), so while admittedly social services isn't my area of expertise at all, legally speaking there is always going to be a legal threshold for these bodies to step into your domestic life! That's why they conduct an initial assessment, and why I imagine there will be lots of paperwork afterwards. Social services isn't generally known to act quickly, and I can't imagine how that would be beneficial when this boy needs immediate medical attention due to the vomiting.

HRA is under my former field of expertise btw. So while social services isn't, I know the requirements for a justified breach will probably be onerous!

Assuming you are genuinely curious, I actually grew curious as well. According to a quick Lexis Nexis: harm requirement in Children Act 1989 S31(2) and S31(9). For statutory interpretation, see Re B; Re L; Re A (the court will be willing to tolerate “very diverse standards of parenting, including the eccentric, the barely adequate and the inconsistent”); and most significantly North East Lincolnshire Council v G and L ("the courts are not in the business of social engineering"). Obviously lots to read up on if your curiosity persists!

My curiosity was around your repeated posts confidently suggesting that there was nothing to be concerned about for the OP’s nephew and that MN was just creating drama, and what exactly you meant by a ‘SS legal threshold’ in relation to actually protecting this little boy from a possibly serious illness that none of his caregivers were accessing medical help for. And also your ignorance of the other red flags around his well-being, given that OP has stated that his parents have had previous SS input for arguments (and the nephew has disclosed to OP that this still goes on), that he is smacked regularly by his dad/mothers partner and that his mum has unhealthy habits that she prioritises over the care of her children. As someone who does work first hand in a child
protection field, there is enough written in OP’s posts to worry me, and to absolutely merit SS doing an assessment of this child’s situation, and I find it amazing that you choose to fixate on the ‘overuse of inhalers’ when the child hasn’t even been diagnosed with asthma. Really amazing…..
But thanks for clarifying the legal bits for me…😃

@aunty2 - you know people can die of asthma? Even if there is nothing else going on, he could go to sleep one day and never wake up due to his asthma. Or he could collapse one day and die right there. Asthma kills, and by standing by and doing nothing, you are contributing to the risk of him dying. he could be fine one day, dead the next. Don't be that aunt.

You are talking dangerous nonsense about asthma. Correct use of inhalers (of the correct type/types - there are different ones) is paramount. Every asthmatic should have a personalised care plan that should include medication and the exact steps to take in the event of triggers/worsening symptoms. Coughing should not be ignored - it should be treated with the correct medication to improve the asthma and thus reduce/eliminate the cough. All of the drugs you mention - inhalers (many types) and steroids are available in the UK.

Absolutely this

Asthma isn't curable, it's a chronic condition which has to be managed

Coughing can damage lungs, reliever (mainly blue cased) inhalers should not be the first line of treatment as they make a severe attack more likely and regular visits to an asthma nurse is a must.

Information on asthma treatment here:

Thankfully @whyhelloo has shuffled off with her tail between her legs

It would be good if HQ now reported the nonsense she has spouted, which includes but not limited to -
*smacking is legal in Wales - it is NOT
*SS has a minimum legal threshold before they get involved - they do NOT
*and the fact that it was not abusive for her parents to accept her brother endured a permanent cough throughout his childhood simply because they assumed it was asthma

oh and all that @Throckmorton has detailed

what ridiculous poster

I'm honestly quite taken aback by the poor level of reading and general comprehension on this thread! Busy mums aside, surely all of us are fairly literate and professional to some extent at least – or perhaps I was too generous in presuming that?

In light of the reading/comprehension difficulties at present, I think I'll just make a few posts quoting or reference my own posts once and leave it at that. You know what people say: you can't argue with, well, a certain quality, so this is futile. :)

This is exactly what I was going to say

Having reached your updates I would actually just contact social services/school etc and not even talk to
Your sister about it. It sounds really really off to me and your nephew is lucky to have such a caring proactive aunt

Why do you all
Keep giving her another chance???? Call the social services your nephew is suffering

• Yes, there is a legal threshold for SS to get involved (I've said many, many times in previous posts that I specifically mean for the boy to be taken into care, as the pearl-clutchers on this thread are so utterly convinced that is going to happen). Among other things, the assessment is literally to prove that this threshold has been met.

I don't know how anyone can claim there just isn't one – that's just not how societal bodies work in the UK in the 21st century.

As I've said many times, it will likely take a significant amount of time for this process to undergo full completion, and it would be far more expedient and effective to get the vomiting boy in front of a doctor and then go the SS route if you think it will bear any outcome.

Again, I've said this many times, the first time on page 2 of this thread: "Agree something drastic needs to be done now, though I personally think medical care is the fastest and most productive way beforehand (can keep a log and proof if would like to contact SS in future or afterwards) as not sure how long SS etc will take".

• No, my parents were not abusing my brother because they had a poor relationship with him (what a delightfully imaginative fantasist on here literally said).

@Gingernaut and @Throckmorton, if you are unable to fully read or understand what I've posted, I do think it's pointless to elaborate any further than what I'm going to say:

I've said many times that after initial diagnosis, the medical literature recommends not overusing inhalers (so, one of you literally made the exact point I was making). Not overusing inhalers can contribute to children becoming asymptomatic over time, whereas administering medication/inhalers at every instance of mild (and "mild" was the exact word I used in an earlier post) coughing is counterproductive for long-term prognosis. This is common knowledge in my country.

I've explicitly acknowledged that the circumstances here are not the same at all. At the same time, in many cases, asthma treatment is not the interventionist daily medical drama some UK posters seem to believe it is, and some posters seem to have expected my well-educated parents – with doctors in the extended family as well – to pointlessly re-enact in some kind of Munchausen by proxy bid.

To external evaluators (eg in court), this context rightly or wrongly could paint the woman's behaviour – especially if, by all other appearances, she seems vaguely middle-class – in a slightly more justifiable light than on the face of it.

The OTC point (no inhalers or medication is available OTC) was stated as part of an acknowledgement that the circumstances in the UK differ, and that's why I understand MN's alarm. Where I'm from, doctors generally entrust patients to buy their own OTC inhalers / medication / steroids in the long-term, after initial prescription and monitoring. I do think it's quite arrogant to imply that only UK doctors or the UK healthcare system somehow know better, and our healthcare conventions are "dangerous", despite our higher rate of asthma resolution in childhood compared to the UK.

As another point of acknowledgement re: how circumstances in the UK differ, I referenced the mould and damp situation in the UK, and therefore the more fatal potential of asthma cases here. So again, I do understand MN's alarm.

• I later clarified that smacking is legal in England and NI. It's highly likely the poster is from Wales, but based on statistical population size that's a tiny bit less likely than if they were from England. I think quibbling about a point I've corrected is sort of questioning the intelligence of MN moderators, frankly. They're not completely incapable of reading context. @Cleoforever

The wider point is that: Again, while I think smacking is abhorrent, it is not a reason for SS removal of child.

Once more, people are free to contact SS. It won't be a cut and dry case – even the child living in a crack den wasn't. But timeline wise, I think it's wiser to focus on getting the child in front of a doctor first rather than screaming abuse at the OP for not focusing on SS in the first instance.

She is a bad person leaving her son in pain and suffering and neglecting him. That's not being a good person or a good mum. If you all sit back and do nothing and anything happens to your nephew will you be ok with giving your sister so many chances? Don't want that to sound awful but it's the truth

How was he over the weekend OP?

Yes, as I've mentioned many times I'm not an SS expert (though legal background) and I defer to your expertise – but I think it would be remiss to 1) entirely deny there is a legal threshold, as some people on this thread seem convinced is the case and 2) deny this process will take some time, as we've seen in many previous casualties. Complexities like smacking as disciplinary measure just about skirting the boundaries of legality will no doubt add to the time frame. Wouldn't it be faster and better to take the actively vomiting boy to the doctor, as I've mentioned lots and lots of times?

Ah, I can see why the overuse of inhalers point was confusing. Here, doctors generally advise re mild asthma/cough "let it be (or buy OTC Ventolin) and only come back if it worsens". Again, recommended approach here, with a great deal of asthmatic children becoming asymptomatic over the years.

So where I'm from – and the statistics do reinforce that long-term asthma resolution here is better than in the UK – this woman's approach would not have been considered particularly abusive, until the throwing up which is horrendous!

This point was only marginally to do with the circumstances at hand though (though I do think it is tangentially relevant). If you RTFT, I innocently mentioned my brother's asthma as a point of interest, and someone has been doggedly claiming my parents were abusive because they had a poor relationship with my brother for pages and pages. 😂 So the point on inhalers was in response to that.

People can scaremonger all they like, but I know our statistics, health pamphlets, etc align with this approach (not administering steroids or inhalers unless necessary), and I'm really not sure what the point of disruptively rushing a child to the doctor multiple times a day, or administering emergency treatment for every cough would be. Again, appreciate this differs in the case of UK mould, damp, housing, etc.

I do have to agree with @whyhelloo . Kids whe
re I live have a Ventolin with them most of the time in case of emergency but do tend to cough. I do too.
The vomiting is not at all good and seems like untreated asthma .

@whyhelloo you appear to be using "inhalers" as shorthand (incorrectly) for reliever inhalers (ie salbutamol). Are you aware that the majority of preventer medication comes in inhalers and that it is recommended that all asthmatics should be taking a preventer (ie using their preventer inhaler) daily? This is why your comments are so dangerous - you are conflating two totally different types of medication.

@Throckmorton Here (as well as in other countries' guidelines and general medical literature), is is recommended that mild asthma should only be treated when needed. It's well-documented that in young children, it's hard to differentiate asthma from other conditions (especially allergies, idiopathic cough, etc), and so doctors tend to be more cautious here. Nothing I'm saying is particularly controversial. Again, this is all well-documented.

Equally, SABA (as they're called here) overuse without controller (again, as we call them) is not encouraged. Occasional use of SABA (as we call it) OTC on as-needed basis is not particularly harmful, but if you're using it frequently, you need to go to the doctor for a combination controller.

Unlike in the UK, we don't generally use 2 sets of inhalers here (which might be where your confusion stems from). If your condition requires a controller (as they're called here), it's usually prescribed in the form of a combination controller. If you require a prescription, and equally if you don't need one just yet, you will be told so.