Dsis is neglecting her own child

[aunty2]

I know neglect is a big word to use, but at this point I'm at my wits end and had enough. I will be careful on how to word this as don't want it to be outing.

I want to start off by saying I love my sister, I know she is a good person, but life hasn't been kind to her and consequently she has derailed quite abit which unfortunately impacts the kids the most negatively. I can't respect her as a mother anymore.

Dsis has 3 children and lives with their dad. They don't have a healthy relationship, that is a whole different thread.

My concern is dnephew. He has been sick for quite a while with this chronic symptoms that won't seem to go. On the outside my nephew looks and seems fine. I've constantly pointed out to dsis and family his symptom doesn't seem right and needs checking upon. He is 6. This has been ongoing for a year now until recently his symptom has got worse and means that he is constantly throwing up. Again he still looks well but the poor thing is suffering and has become normalised to being sick. Me, dparents, and my siblings have all said nephew needs to go to the drs asap. However everytime we say this dsis comes up a list of excuses.

First it was the drs can't see him on the same day

Then it was they won't want to know it's not that bad

Then it was oh well I'm working and bla bla bla.

Thing is dsis constantly makes time for herself and her unhealthy needs. Meanwhile my nephew isn't being prioritised. I can't even book the appointment for him as I have no idea what his Dr is. We are all worried he will suffocate on his own sick in the night. I'm really getting angry about dsis and her behaviour, and also their waste of space dad who can never be held responsible for anything. That child is being failed by his own parents.

What do I do? Aibu to have ago at dsis. I've had enough of being nice about it. My only worry is by confronting dsis she will distance herself and nephew from me which will mean I won't be able to know how he is or what is going on.

There’s a balance to be found by staying close enough to keep involved, and acting when the time is right.

Its something my grandparents had to do carefully for a long time when I was a child so they didn’t end up being along the lots of people who lost access to us.

However, your nephew is at the point of coughing so much he’s struggling to breathe and being sick.

There are not many places for this to deteriorate too other than very serious ill health for him, or worse. Asthma, if it is that, kills. And quickly.

There comes a point when the adults involved have to step up and do something.

If there’s you, your mum and your brother that’s three adults that could act. If needs must one of you could even act seemingly against the wishes of the others to allow two to stay close.

What is going to be your “enough is enough” point if it’s not when he’s being repeatedly sick and struggling to breath for over a week? How much further are you prepared to let it deteriorate before you’d act in a way that your sister won’t like?

aunty2 I think it may be daunting and you may be worried about taking action. The best thing would be to take him to the hospital, be told you’re overreacting. On the other side, you’d hate to have ignored what you know just isn’t right and have huge regrets. You know something is not right, hence posting on here.

This.

If not now, when? If not you, who?

Being violent towards a child is abusive regardless of wether it leaves a mark or not I actually can't believe people like you exist

I realise you are scared OP but neglect is child abuse and your DN is being neglected. Nobody dealing with a medical issue for months is neglect. You need to report this to the school safeguarding lead if nothing else.

Please just take him out for the day. Bring him to A&E and tell them, and tell them that you aren't moving until they examine him.

I'm worried now that the reason she's not bringing him is that he does have bruises that she would rather keep hidden. And if that is the case, it's even more important that you take action.

Kids don't tell you they are being mistreated if it's all they've ever known. It's their normal.

Sounds like the poor kid is being let down by everyone and going into care would actually be for the best

It’s really frightening when you consider the advice to children being abused would be to tell a trusted adult and here we have a trusted adult who isn’t acting with knowledge of abuse.

Then when a child is killed or neglected everyone (myself included) wonders how it went unnoticed.

@aunty2 i would agree to babysit him and then take him to A&E. If your dsis gets angry just tell her that he started coughing lots while he was with you and it sounded like he couldn’t breathe so you felt you had no choice. If A&E is the only way for you to get this child seen by a doctor I think it’s an appropriate place to take him.

Misplaced attempt at bitchiness! As I've mentioned in literally 5 posts, the vomiting is what concerns me.

As previously mentioned, I don't know if SS will be running to anyone's doorstep to snatch their child away, if the parent has "monitored" (as she will claim) their child's on-off cough for a year without a GP visit. MN says they will, but I'm truly not convinced MN is reflective of real life as wouldn't teachers have at least raised concerns (as they did in the poor boy's case posted above) if a cough was so alarming in the UK

But in this case, the child isn't the one saying they are abused, that would be a different story altogether, the problem here is there is no proof of abuse, physically the child looks okay, acts okay, but the concern is over a persistent cough/illness that seemingly isn't being treated, that's definitely neglect, and needs dealing with, but there's nothing to necessarily suspect that the child is being abused in other ways, it's a tricky situation to find yourself in as a family member I'm sure.

The fact of the matter is the OP is doing something, she doesn't seem ready to set the SS bomb off in her family just yet, but that doesn't mean she's condoning abuse, as there's no real proof of that, she's come here for advise for a start, she's had a lot of good advise, school safeguarding, going to hospital with him etc. She says she's the only one who can talk sense to her sister, so if it's falling on her to do something, and not get herself kicked out of the family dynamic where she won't be able to do anything, only she can decide what the best course of action is.

To all those people shaming her for not going straight to SS, what do you think SS would do? they can visit and monitor people and households where a child is being beaten, starved, and tortured and where grandparent, schools, neighbours and friends all know and are begging for them to intervene and they do.. wait for it.. fuck all!! Oh wait, sorry, no.. "lessons are learnt", I always forget that little gem.

I can understand OPs hesitation to be fair.

She did say the child is hit by her sisters partner.

I have not suggested she makes a scene about this, in fact if you look back at my posts I have urged OP to be tactful to maintain relations with her DSIs and keep lines of communication open with her DNephew.

I do think though that inaction is totally inappropriate here. OP has said she thinks DN has a chronic condition that isn’t being treated.

its also a relief having read the thread that your view is so very much in the minority

even from social workers

indeed one says that the situation makes her feel “sick” with concern

I think she said smacked, not hit? I don't agree with either but they are two different things in my eyes. I was smacked occasionally as a child and it was always used as consequence to a behaviour and normally after a verbal warning, I was never hit as a child.

I honestly wasn't having a dig at you, I was just highlighting that even with knowledge of abuse it's no always easy to get anyone to do anything about it.

@sandyhappypeople

I was just highlighting that even with knowledge of abuse it's no always easy to get anyone to do anything about it.

Yes I agree - I was surprised at the comments on this thread from a social worker as tbh I don’t think they’d do an awful lot in this case. But my experience is pretty limited.

I think this is why OP should speak on a confidential basis with the school, who as I’ve said in previous posts might have their own concerns and be better placed to raise those
with social services or any other agencies that might be able to assist the family.

If you have real concerns, tell the school. They will be obliged to follow it up.

But I am a little confused - you say he's been ill a long time "He has been sick for quite a while with this chronic symptoms that won't seem to go" , but later you say that he's only been ill over the holidays ( ie Easter holidays, which only last for 2 weeks and are still ongoing.)
Whenever other posters make suggestions you seem to be minimising or backtracking in your explanations.
But the bottom line is that if you suspect that he is not getting treatment for a long term illness, or you suspect there is something more sinister going on, like neglect or scapegoating, then you MUST flag this up so that he can get medical help.
If it is asthma, he could die from it being untreated. So if your family won't speak to you if you take action, that is the lesser of the 2 evils.
I would recommend that you find out the name of the safeguarding lead at his school- it will be prominent on the school website, and is usually the Head, deputy head or SENDCO ( or all of them) and email them now, setting out your concerns.
You could also contact SS anonymously, you could purport to be a neighbour. Your sister needs to be shocked out of her complacency. You've already spoken to her, more than once and she's still not taking DN to the Dr. Your Mum has also spoken to her. Your sis seems like she's not prioritising the child's needs over her own so someone has to.intervene. Stop discussing it with Sis, with Mum, just act now.

@sandyhappypeople thanks. I'm not going to entertain these whole "dnephew being abused" posts. He is not. I know he isn't. It's offensive to me, my sister and my family tbh. No one on here knows enough to make such huge allegations. As I stated a million times my sister is NOT evil like that.

I am not throwing myself into the SS options, YET, because at the moment I think the risk factor is more bad than good on EVERYONES behalf and to be honest unless they witness one of these coughing episodes nothing would warrant them doing anything.

I did try to have dnephew today but was rejected in the end. However I will see him this weekend to assess the situation and see if he is still as bad. If he is I will address with dmum again and potentially tell his school.

I appreciate everyone's helpful advice. I am hearing it. And I'm not going to do NOTHING.

Thanks

You can call the children's services advice and guidance line and ask for advice, where they will assess and triage it. So you'd be getting advice without it necessarily being "reported" onwards.

To be honest, their advice would more than likely be "offer to take your nephew to the gp" "keep an eye on him" "call the school with your concerns" there is no way they will visit the house just on what you've said.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/

Neglect is abuse, and parents shouting/fighting and kids being physically chastised are forms of emotional abuse (possibly physical, depending on what a ‘smack’ looks like to your family). And those are just the things you are aware of, it doesn’t sound like your sister is exactly open and honest with you about what life is like for her children. I cannot understand why you wouldn’t want your nephew and his siblings to be protected, if SS look into it and they dont find any harm being caused then there’ll be no problem, and you’ll have done your best by your nephew. Wake up OP

^^ This.

Also, @aunty2 - you think that a 6 year old who witnesses/experiences domestic abuse within their home (physical or emotional) is going to just tell someone that may very well either not believe them, or tell their abuser(s) what they've said...?! Nope. Not going to happen. At 6, you're conditioned to be terrified of losing your parents, the ones who smack you, or yell at you, or hit you, or otherwise abuse you. So you paste a smile on your face and if your aunt asks you how everything is at home... you lie. You tell her what she wants to believe is true. Everything's okay, school's boring, blah, blah, blah... Bruises and burns get explained away as normal childhood bumps and accidents. Coughing to the point where you're physically ill is explained away as "just a bug" or, as with another poster and in my personal experience, as an eating disorder (which often start as a result of extreme anxiety and are very often linked to childhood abuse and/or trauma of some kind). Everything's fine, and the concerned aunty believes it because of course a 6 year old wouldn't ever think to lie about such a thing, not to their aunty (whom he's probably aware his mum's had a difference of opinion with, by the way - further enhancing his actual need to protect all that he associates with normalcy!

I lied as an abused child, because my mother told me for as long as I can remember that if social workers ever turned up - they'd take me away from her and my dad, from my friends, from my dog... and I'd never see any of them again. See, as an adult, I know that's bullshit - but when I was a child? Even though she was beating me with a wooden hairbrush, it terrified me, because that was all that I knew. Turned out that she had severe PND after I was born (traumatic, long birth) and MH issues anyway due to her own shite childhood. Back then, in the '70s, I would have been removed from the family home - but now? Unless the abuse is severe, Children's Services work with the family as a whole unit in an effort to protect the child from further emotional damage.

Whether your nephew's condition is physiological or psychological, you know that you have to do something to help him. Maybe even to help your sister. And this is coming from someone who wishes that someone had stepped in and taken me out of my family/treated my mother's MH issues... You really do not want your nephew growing into a resentful, damaged adult, believe me!

Please do the right thing by him. Before one way, or the other, your sweet nephew whom you claim to love ends up either dead, damaged or grows up to blame you and your mother for not being the responsible adult and stepping in to protect a child from harm's way. If you know which surgery your sister's family belong to, you can write a letter detailing your concerns and address it "F.A.O The Named GP For [nephew's name] In Confidence", marking it as urgent. Their named doctor has to act on concerns like these, regarding a child, and will call your sister to schedule an appointment, without making a big deal about it until they've formed a professional opinion. But they have to safeguard a child, by law.

Also, raising your voice slightly through frustration towards/about a child is deemed abusive in 2023. Smacking - which I suspect is more than just a simple smack given your defensive back-pedalling - is heinously abusive these days.

Then you are as complicit as your Dsis

He is being prevented from receiving medical care.

He is being smacked by a non parent.

He has witnessed domestic abuse.

He is already being abused. Those three things are abuse.

Totally different situation but my mum’s parents divorced in the 1960s and her mum disappeared to Rhodesia for a few years. My mum and her brother were terrified their dad would leave because no matter how bad a parent he might have been he was a stable and regular part of their lives. My mum was 7 and her brother was 4.

A little girl aged 6 and her brother aged 4 had been taken away from their mother and placed with a kinship carer because their mother a single parent (dad was in prison for armed robbery) was entirely unfit. Despite the fact that the little boy could show and tell exactly what an adult relationship involved to that little girl her mum had no wrong. They were terrified of losing the one constant in their lives no matter how bad that constant was.

OP even if it is the school safe guarding lead you have to speak out as children will defend their care giver to the hilt if it means their lives don’t change.

I've read the social worker's post, and assuming it's credible, that's exactly it – her main reference is to serious case reviews, i.e. in cases where social services didn't take action beforehand.

I've said multiple times I think this mother is irresponsible. At the same time, how many posts on MN have you seen where a mother hasn't completely stayed on top of a child's chronic cough, or recurring illness? "We thought it was getting better and then it keeps coming back". It would be extremely easy for an otherwise middle class looking mother to claim she was in that category, even though we know she's not.

Even then, assuming SS somehow thinks this is a huge issue... There's MN where they think putting on their best pearl-clutching accent will get SS to parachute in and airlift the child out, and then there's real life.

The reality is more likely to be something like gathering evidence (from various uncooperative third parties who will align with the sis at that), an assessment that takes ages, things needing to be signed up off by official multiple parties at multiple levels, and a judge ordering removal (and the legal evidential threshold for this is extremely high).

Very unlikely all of the above will happen imo, but anyway if it does, over the entire prolonged duration OP will be cut off by sis from child, child still won't be seen by a doctor and will still be throwing up.

And no, the child is not going to qualify for immediate police protection despite all the hysteria on MN 🙄

Just take the poor boy to the bloody doctor somehow.

@Cleoforever Btw, if you stop unsuccessfully trying to throw in bitchy one-upping remarks, and read my post on page 2 of this thread:

Tbf it's only been a while since half term when he began throwing up. Re before that - many kids have persistent mild symptoms for ages

Agree something drastic needs to be done now, though I personally think medical care is the fastest and most productive way beforehand (can keep a log and proof if would like to contact SS in future or afterwards) as not sure how long SS etc will take

I actually think this approach reflects more actual concern for the child in question than the faux concern on MN does – shrieking around hysterically and unhelpfully, plus accusing OP of abuse (?), lying, etc, herself.