to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

I think regular and consistent is hard to promise especially if there is more than 1 set of GC involved. If DC1 required a Weds all day, DC2 required a Friday and DC3 all morning drop offs, suddenly GPs week is over

It occurs to me that one of my friends who is in her early 60s and could probably afford to retire (long service public sector pension, recent inheritance) is not doing so precisely to prevent her having to deal with the expectation that she should provide childcare. She is already frequently called on at weekends.

The way many parents talk is so entitled. "They have no interest in looking after my kids!"

Why would they automatically have an interest in doing that? They're not their kids!

YABU. Nobody is under a moral obligation to help you raise your own children except the other parent.

Well I'm a grandparent. My DD never had any expectation of me doing committed and regular childcare, because she knew that I'd retired in order to travel and have a more spontaneous lifestyle, having been constrained by my career for four decades.

I will always do random childcare and sleepovers for specific reasons/emergencies/because it's helpful (or just because DHD wants to play with grandma, and it will give DD a break). But committing to cover work related childcare would leave me as constrained as my job did.

And yes, I'm in my 60s and reasonably fit, but to be honest, it's absolutely exhausting and when she goes home I really need recovery time. I have friends who do a couple of days a week childcare for their DGDs. and it's killing them. They simply don't have the energy for it, and there are two of them (I'm widowed). But they feel they have to in order to see their DGCs a all, as their DIL would otherwise have them spending all their time with her parents (and their son does whatever she says)

The change in motherhood demographics means that people become grandparents at a later age than they used to. Which might seem great because they're retired and available, but it also means that, however well they are, they simply don't have the energy for full time (or even part time) childcare.

Plenty of parents became parents because it was expected of them, and dutifully raised their children because they had to. People these days have more choices and more freedom.

Do you really want to push your own parents into admitting they had you out of societal obligation and don't really want to go through the toddler stage again when they didn't enjoy it the right time round...?

Being a grandparent does not mean you love children. Doing a competent job of raising at least one child the first time round doesn't mean you enjoyed it, just that you did it.

People these days also have children later in life, so by the time someone becomes a grandparent, they might not be in the best of health (and they shouldn't feel obliged to admit every single health trouble to anyone, not even their children).

There's also Covid. Most people pretend it doesn't exist anymore, but it does, and with grandparents being older than parents, they're at a higher risk of getting ill badly or worse. A lot of people on MN seem to think grandparents are a great option when their children are sick. Why would you send contagious children round to older people with a higher risk of catching it and getting complications?

And then you have the old chestnut of rights and obligations. As a parent, you're obliged to look after your child... but you also have the right to see your child. If you're an engaged parent, in theory, you should always have that relationship. Engaged grandparents have no such rights - all they have are obligations. If they fall out with the parents of the grandchildren, they can have that relationship suddenly cut off.

There are so many reasons why grandparents shouldn't have to provide regular childcare.

You sound very entitled OP. It was your choice to have children and you are responsible for them.

Speaking as a grandparent I feel I have done my child rearing and now I'm retired I want the freedom to go away at any time. I've worked hard and have earnt my retirement.

I love my grandchildren and do have them to stay for holidays and we have great fun but I will not commit to regular childcare. I want to be nana who spoils them and I don't want to have to discipline them or bring them up.

They’ve done their bit and now it is time for them to enjoy life and relax. As you get older it is not easy to look after young children. Good for them for only doing what they can cope with. Your children, your choice.

I'm not sure it's moral to choose to have a child and then decide it's someone else's moral duty to look after them when you want them to. You can't place moral obligations on other people with your life choices.

I have always helped with my grandchildren but that is my choice. Other people are entitled to make different choices.

Your post shows what can happen when grandparents aren't willing to do childcare. My parents are desperate to see my kids multiple times a week. I can't spend that much time with my parents, so if they want to see their grandchildren, then they have to do so without me being around, which automatically turns it into childcare. If they weren't prepared to do that, they wouldn't see us more than once a fortnight.

There's really no point in whining because you don't see much of your grandchildren when you're not willing to put in a bit of effort.

But the OP doesn't just want occasional babysitting for a night out etc, she wants regular childcare for pre primary children, that's a big ask.
As for making it a moral issue, we've not long got rid of women being judged on how white their whites are and scrubbing their steps. Not being a good housekeeper was a moral failing in my lifetime. I wonder how much is expected of the male relatives of the father, as opposed to the aging GM. It's only now women are speaking out about the effects of the menopause. Self care takes time, women are getting less time rich than ever before. We are going backwards.

I don't, no. It's THEIR life, presumably they've been looking forward to retiring and they just don't want to do it regularly.

There is noting wrong with that.

I get that childcare is ridiculously expensive but parents can be so entitled about other people's time!

I agree with you, but you cant change your parents. You can change the dynamic with your own grandchildren.
In my family grandparents always provided lots of childcare. My mum always stayed with her grandma and I often stayed with my grandma (even though mum and grandma were SAHM).
My mum now looks after lots of grandkids. They had my kids 1-2 days a week and now that they are older and in school they have their cousins 2 days a week and another cousin 1 day a week. They love it and enjoy their time with the grandkids, but it's definitely a hassle for them too because its a commitment and they cant just cancel if they dont feel like it.

My grandma is in her 80s now and still lives at home. She gets visitors every day, because i have so many cousins nearby and we all still love to hang out with her. We have such a close bond, because we grew up seeing her all the time. And i just love that we are all still so close

I disagree about expecting a regular commitment.

Our parents all lived too far away to provide regular childcare when DC small but were always eager to help out by having them to stay for a few days in the school holidays, which was a great help actually. Also, once when DH was out of the country and baby DD was ill and had to stay off nursery for a few days, PILs dropped everything and drove for 3 hours to stay with me and look after her so I could go to work. Again, a big, big help.

But, even without the distances involved, I wouldn't have expected them to commit to a regular day. They had their own lives to lead.

DH and I are now retired. No prospect of becoming a GP in near future (I don't think!) I am not sure what approach we would take if and when it happens. On the one hand of course I would like to help my DD. On the other, it is fantastic to finally be able to please yourself, take holidays when you like, decide to go out for the day just because it looks nice weather, sleep in if you feel like it, have plenty of time for hobbies. I am not sure I would want to put myself in a position where I have commitments that curtail that. Perhaps by the time she gets round to parenthood we will be too old and decrepit to be left with a bby anyway

its hardly a moral obligation. Its a choice and you have to suck it up either way

I don’t think anyone is owed it, but my grandparents on both side provided a lot of childcare for us as children and my parents absolutely help out when they can (not set days as they’re both in their 50s still and working but they are a massive help nonetheless). I help with my nieces and nephews and I can’t imagine not helping with my own grandchildren - although my son keeps telling me he wants to adopt ten children so I might have to draw a line 😂

One controversial starting post and then the OP doesn’t come back…

I personally wouldn't want to be regular planned childcare for any future DGC like daily. I would pay towards nursery fees though as I think me and DH would be very comfortable . I have a 10 year old so very long way away. Many parents are extremely controlling of how their DC are cared for and it could cause friction especially with PFB. You see it on MN , grandparents aren't playing enough with the baby , grandparents watching TV not going to enough baby groups , feeding the wrong thing. I think if you expect free childcare as long as the child is safe and loved you can't be that controlling over it. Use paid childcare instead

If they had a lot of help from their parents with you then yes I think it’s pretty bad tbh

I completely disagree that there is any obligation whatsoever.

It's nice if both parties agree, but moral obligation? Absolutely not.

I think families doing more to support and help each other might alleviate the terrible loneliness and mental health decline in our society.

Every human is annoying in some way, and families are there to put up with and to love one another when the individual family members are unreasonably young or distressingly old, or unfortunately in need of support and understanding. If people abuse this and take advantage of some family member in an unacceptable way, they should be pulled up on it and shown the error of their ways.

I don't think everyone doing their own thing and withdrawing from everyone except their under-age children is working all that well to make a kind and cohesive society.

My parents did occasional care, always as a favour to me. I feel sad they didn't want to see their grandchildren because it would be something that made them happy. They love them but prefer to spend only limited time with them and usually when I'm there too. It's sad rather than morally wrong.

No OP. Grandparents have done their child rearing and you should not expect them to assist you with yours. They should be enjoying life at this stage and making the most of it rather than being your nanny.

My grandmother looked after me a lot but my parents were grateful and didn't boss her about. If I was with her it was her rules, Many on MN expect the free childcare but then micromanage which must be awful.

I agree OP, I really look down on grandparents who can’t be arsed to help out with their grandchildren (looking at you, in-laws…). The whole argument of “your choice to have kids” doesn’t stand up in my opinion, the grandparents chose to have kids too, and you don’t stop being a parent when your child turns 18. I cannot fathom not wanting to help mine out or have a relationship with my grandchildren if I am lucky enough to have any.