to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

I have seen grandparents out with babies and toddlers who look too frail really to be caring for them alone. Okay, when everything goes to plan but suppose the toddler breaks loose near a busy road? I've often thought that if something happened that required them to run quickly after a child, it just wouldn't necessarily be a happy outcome.

While the DC were at primary school, the only (two in each family) children I recall being minded by quite elderly grandmothers every day (so the mum could work full-time), were quite out of control / spoilt, possibly because they were more indulged? Both grandmas were lovely but they often looked totally wiped out!

You can imagine how much would have been saved on childcare over a ten-year period though!

I think the point is- they didn’t worry about their parents chance to relax or their tiredness when they utilised free childcare themselves because it benefitted them.

My dad did exactly this- I spent 4 days a week for years with my Nan when I was a kid so he benefited from loads of free childcare (not one mention of wondering if my Nan was ok with it) yet wouldn’t even help us for an hour! It’s funny how when it benefits you it’s ok and yet when it involves them helping it’s suddenly inconvenient. I never expected anything regular but to refuse to help for even an hour when you had free childcare for years IS a dick move because it’s completely hypocritical/entitled

@Thighlengthboots but you are talking about different people. I’m assuming your Nan looked after you because she was happy to. It doesn’t leave your parents under any obligation to do the same just because they previously benefited from childcare from grandparents. I didn’t get any childcare that I didn’t pay for, my parents had died in laws were unwell yet I still care for dgs.

@HoppingPavlova
So many people seem to think it offensive to suggest that women and men should fully prepare themselves to be capable of childcare before they decide to have a child. The notion that I can have a child, because I will.be able to outsource day care or respite care to the grandparents is a sign of entitlement and poor planning. These plans are often made based upon assumptions and with no direct or comprehensive discussion with the grandparents.

@Lonejohny - yes, it is good to be kind and compassionate, and to bring up children to be kind and compassionate too - but it is also important to be compassionate towards oneself. It is fine to have boundaries, to know your limits, and to say No to things even when it might be the ‘kind’ thing to say yes.

No-one is obligated to work themselves into the ground, to be ‘kind’ to others.

There is a saying - you can’t pour from an empty jug - meaning it is important to care fore yourself so you can care for others.

No thanks! I had one of my dgc once a week for 4 months until dil went back on maternity leave but I don't want to have babies regularly. I have them occasionally when they want to go out etc but I'm not signing myself up for regular childcare

And I'm not old I'm 44

I completely agree with you, however the problem with this is it will lead to the birth rate dropping far below replacement rate, it takes a village to raise a child but the village is too busy to help.

And its usually the "it takes a village to raise a child" brigade who get the hump when you tell their child off for running around a coffee shop.

And yet so many have an issue with the immigration that will solve the replacement rate issue.

Actually I think it would be a good idea if the population generally decreased both in the UK and elsewhere. Many countries are overpopulated, we can't carry on building houses for ever, we can't feed ourselves on the land we have, we are running out of resources. I agree that will cause a huge problem for some while but eventually we would be better off.

Agree @loislovesstewie. Fewer humans would benefit the planet in the long run.

I wish population control would become public policy, but capitalism, religion, and ‘I am entitled to have as many kids as I want’ selfishness are big stumbling blocks.

Yes, they seem to think it means unasked strangers are required to gush over their children and look after them in public places.

We have such a large, elderly population. It’s an enormous burden to place on a shrinking young population. Isn’t this the problem with China who are now trying to encourage residents to have more children?

@LuckyPeonies

What kind of population control are you suggesting?

Do you really believe that people in the UK are having too many children for the country to support? I'm surprised if you do as we actually have the opposite problem.

I wouldnt have said she was "happy" about it, it was just assumed this would happen by everyone in the family. For my dad to then not offer even an hour's help, in a blue moon or an emergency to help us makes him selfish in my opinion. When he got ill with dementia, I got carers in and then he went into a home because I applied the same logic regarding helping out that he did.

Who seriously consults their parents when trying for a child?. Mumsnet at its finest!

I think you've missed the point, rather...

Which would be a mumsnet.com norm.

@qpmz
People who are fully capable on their own of meeting and providing for the needs and expenses related to having a child really do not need to consult anyone prior to having a child.

People who are unable on their own of meeting all of those needs should consult anyone and everyone that they expect to step in and meet needs or expenses related to the caring and preparation of that child.

Unfortunately, many people put more planning, research, and exploration into the purchase of a vehicle than they do into the decision of their readiness to meet the obligations that come with parenthood. You would never arrive at a dealership to purchase a vehicle without money in hand or a clear and articulated agreement or contract specifying the time and terms of payment, but the same people are willing to bring a life into existence without having made any specific and agreed upon plans for important aspects related to caring for the child.

The auto dealer who sends you away when you come unprepared is considered a wise and prudent business man or woman. The parent who sends you away when you want to out source your responsibilities to them without having involved them in any of the prior planning is considered a mean and indifferent grandparent. The truth is that it was the child's parents who approached parenthood with an indifferent attitude and an it is someone else' s responsibility to be available to bail them out upon demand. Better they should have become car owners than parents.

@Mari9999 Amen!

I agree with Lois that it would be initially painful, but eventually humanity (and the entire planet) would be better off.

And I also believe (caution, unpopular opinion) that forcing old people who have zero quality of life, and/or no awareness, to linger/vegetate for months or years in substandard care homes is cruel and inhumane. Thankfully, some countries are recognizing this and allowing people to ‘check out’ when they want.

In this country no one is obliged to help their grown children and in turn those grown children are not obliged, down the line, to help their aged parents.

It's a bit shit though. People left to struggle alone at every age. There must be a better way. I wonder what it is?

@Iateallthechocolate
The better solution is responsibility at every age

I agree