to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

If they cheerfully accepted help from their parents with no intention of passing that down when it was their turn then it's bit of a dick move IMO

I think being there for emergencies should be a given and maybe they would offer some ad hoc sitting and sleepovers at their place over the years but no I disagree that they should be expected to be childminders for their grandchildren.

I didn't say it was a requirement. I was questioning the tit for tat and veiled threats that have peppered this thread.

'If they don't look after my children they can forget getting any help from me' is really not a good look. And I tend to imagine that peoole who say that are likely to be the ones who wouldn't help their parents, even of they did a decade of regular childcare.

And where did this charming ' they can't expect me to wipe their arse' come in? Just about all my friends have, like me been, or continue to be, providing support for very elderly parents. So far it's not involved any of us having to do that.

So you should work/raise children get to the point that you can have time for your own hobbies/interests without having to schedule your life around looking after children . But no because you may or may not need assistance later in life or due to illness. You don't enjoy your free time you instead look after grandchildren.
At what point are you free to do what you want when you want !
You don't have to earn your children's help when sick or frail by babysitting grandchildren

And where did this charming ' they can't expect me to wipe their arse' come in? Just about all my friends have, like me been, or continue to be, providing support for very elderly parents. So far it's not involved any of us having to do that

I never mentioned that- someone else said that. I made no mention of arses at all. I am saying the expectation of help should be mutual. In loving families, thats not unreasonable. Most families would want to help each other out- that is that point.

@saraclara i don’t think it’s a threat to say if people don’t want to be part of their children’s village then they should expect to be a part of it if they suddenly want that village 20 years down the line. Every action has a reaction right? It is what it is.

@Merlinsbeard83 exactly! And you don’t have to help your ailing parents either. Too many entitled elders now suddenly getting in touch out of the blue when they need help, yet they abandoned their kids at 18 because ‘their job was done’. Same energy.

Exactly. I went to my grandparents 4 days a week when I was young. So my dad benefited from free childcare his whole working life. Yet, when I on occasion asked him to help me he said no and I wasnt even expecting it to be a regular thing. It is a dick move in my opinion to expect it yourself but never once offer it.

@Thighlengthboots absolutely it is!! I think some people in this thread are willingly misunderstanding. But also… if they’re a grandparent feeling triggered by this thread, maybe there’s a reason why. Yknow?

Because if elderly parents are seeking help or society expects their DC to help, that's because old age has effects on functioning so that the person can no longer do things for themselves right?

Not because the elderly person wants a break, or to save money or because they want a night out?

That's why it's a false equivalence. The adult DC in childcare conversations WANT their parents to provide childcare to make their life easier. Elderly parents need help because they can't perform those tasks anymore and NEED help.

They're different scenarios.

I've never asked my parents for anything but if they're elderly and NEED my help because they're no longer able to fully look after themselves and have no other option then yes I'll step in.

The people on this thread seem to think it's a tit for tat and if when their parents are elderly and literally CANNOT look after themselves; they'll feel like they can say fuck off or be resentful because their parents weren't previously willing to provide free childcare for their kids to save them money or let them have a night out or free time for a break from their children.

You'd have to be a particular kind of person to think an elderly parent literally unable to look after themself and suffering because of it is reaping what they sow because they weren't chomping at the bit to offer free childcare to their DC so they could save money on childcare or go to the pub.

You're being ridiculous. I'm a very involved and loving grandparent who is very available for ad hoc childcare and sleepovers whenever needed (despite finding it absolutely knackering at my age). But I can still find entitled attitudes and veiled threats annoying. It's not 'being triggered' to point out when people are being illogical or unempathetic.

I had no childcare as both sets of grandparents lived away, so I had to find my own support in baby sitting circles and other mums.

I agree. My H comes from another culture where its completely normal for parents to help their kids with childcare and then when parents are older and needing help, the family rallies around to look after them. Its really very lovely. Not saying its always perfect or problem free but it seems much more kind and reciprocal than some of the scenarios being described here.

@saraclara then this thread isn’t directed at grandparents like you 🤷‍♀️ there’s no need to take issue. Your situation is your own, I’m saying if someone was on the receiving end of parental alienation and then only received that with love, and reflected that back out in their parent’s time of need then they’re an incredible, amazing person.

I am from a culture where this is common too, and all my friends are miserable changing their MIL's adult diapers because it is taboo to send them to a home. It's only reciprocal for the women. The men do fuck all.

That said, I will look after my mum because she has been a good mum. I won't be looking after my MIl because my culture expects it though. Have told DH to do that.

@Thighlengthboots exactly. Fully agree with you.
People saying they don’t do things to get things in return… with that in mind then; stop your national insurance payments. You’re not working to get looked after in later life right?

offer free childcare to their DC so they could save money on childcare or go to the pub

Nope. I never asked for childcare so I could go to the pub. I asked for childcare to attend hospital appointments, take my other child to the dentist or doctor, manage to work a little as we were financially struggling and in emergencies when I was ill with flu etc... You are assuming that all parents ask for childcare to hang out in the pub or engage in hedonistic social pursuits which is frankly, ridiculous.

OK, so when would I get the chance to actually do anything with my retirement? Women of my age might well have worked for 50 years, brought up their own kids, paid childminders etc, saved for retirement, put off having that lovely holiday to far flung places, not been able to be spontaneous and just take off to goodness knows where. Now the expectations are to care for grandkids not just occasionally but every week day, by the time that is no longer required the opportunity has gone, to be replaced by failing health or just being too tired to do much. Please tell me when we are allowed to have a bit of fun? Or travel? Or please ourselves?

@swayingpalmtree I’m so sorry you didn’t have the support you needed. It’s funny how people are trotting out the ‘pub’ line. Because that’s exactly why my parents (I’m late 30s) wanted to do when my grandparents had me for the weekend. They went out, got smashed with their mates, had parties etc. good for them, and actually probably best we were out the way! Yet my (and my friends! This isn’t unusual) parents wouldn’t so much as touch my kids with a barge pole when the time came, despite asking their own parents to have their grandchildren every other weekend. They had the advantage of the village, but didn’t want to give it in return. Interesting.
I wonder what the numbers are of people in this thread who report their parents having ZERO interest in their grandchildren, and how they correlate to the numbers of those same people having been taken care of by their own grandparents in their childhood on a regular basis.

Yes it is lovely. But as you say, a completely different culture where also, every member of the family is equally respected and also respected to make their decisions while caring for the children.

This is often not the case for many MNetters who would like the benefit of free family childcare but want the family members to adhere to every rule that they had set out as parents.

Most other cultures don't have the rules that a lot of MNetters would like to impose so it's not the same situation.

Jesus, how entitled can you get. NO! No one, even your parents, owe you anything. You chose to have children, you look after them!

Right? Seriously, I am lol that anyone thinks that all parents in this current financial climate are only asking for childcare so they can swan off on exotic holidays, get pissed in the pub, go away on spa breaks or whatever and various other social jollies when most parents are just struggling to keep their plates up the air and prevent them coming crashing down. If I had that much money and free time I'd hire a flipping nanny and grandparents wouldnt need to be involved at all!

Well I do provide childcare for dd although had circumstances been different I probably wouldn't have if I'm honest. It's tiring, limiting and boring if I'm honest. Dd knows that this is a one off offer and if she ever has more dc I won't be doing it again. Your children your responsibility if you ask me. Your parents didn't choose for you to have children so have no moral obligation towards providing care for them.

None of my grandparents ever looked after me even for half an hour because they just didn’t want to. I understand they weren’t in any way obliged to do so, but it left me with a terribly low self esteem and feelings of being unwanted and ‘in the way’, into my thirties.

I think it's a question of individual circumstances really. I think it's pretty morally poor to not do anything at all to help a family member who really needs it, when it costs you nothing. How much they need it (either financially, or preference of not having 5 days x 10 hours in nursery setting) and how much it costs you (in terms of time, freedom/flexibility, emotional and physical energy and health, how much they need a break from work/routine etc.) is a very individual thing.

I would do anything I could to help out my DD if she was trying to make ends meet with a young family. If she was more comfortably off and needed it less, my willingness to build my life around her childcare needs would diminish. It's a balance and the issues present themselves when the balance doesn't feel fair or when either side doesn't really understand where the other party sits on the 'need/ability' scale.

I suppose it is similar to 'to each according to need from each according to ability to give' kind of idea. And it isn't really for others to judge need or ability to give because we don't know just how tiring or tying some older GPs might find it for example. There should be no expectation or obligation, but functional families should help out where it doesn't 'take' from them too much, because that's what we do when we love people.

Right.

I didn't say you though did I? Nobody is going to say it's unreasonable to ask for HELP when there is a very real need for it. You should perhaps try to stop being so self-absorbed and thinking everything is about you when it isn't.

I was referring to the very frequent threads on MN where posters are complaining of having to pay for childcare so they can work when their retired parents are 'doing nothing' except enjoying their hobbies and free time.

And the other very frequent threads with MNetters posting that their parents aren't thrilled at the idea that they babysit so the OP CAN go on a night out.

I'm on one at this very minute who describes her parents as 'crap' because they will babysit but only after the DC are in bed and she doesn't feel like going out after that.

Another a couple of weeks ago went to visit her DHs family in another country and was pissed off that the GPs said no when she asked them to look after the DC while she and DH went to the pub for a 'much needed date night