to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

I would do anything I could to help out my DD if she was trying to make ends meet with a young family. If she was more comfortably off and needed it less, my willingness to build my life around her childcare needs would diminish. It's a balance and the issues present themselves when the balance doesn't feel fair or when either side doesn't really understand where the other party sits on the 'need/ability' scale

Yes, this exactly. If my children struggle as adults I will happily look after their kids one or two days a week. I certainly wouldnt just stand by watching them struggle and think to myself "meh, Ive done my bit" because I love them and I want the best for them. I literally cannot imagine doing that- to me, thats seems really cold and a very alien concept. I also want to be in my future grandchildren's lives and get to know them as they grow. Thats the entire reason I chose to have a family. I dont understand the view of right, now my kids are 18 I'm not going to bother with them- theyre on their own. WTF.

I notice that pp are very keen on grandparents providing regular childcare like " other cultures" but would you be so keen if your parents told you whom to marry and what to study? Because that's how many other cultures work. The entire family thinks as one.

@JaneFondue that seems like a sweeping generalisation. I know plenty of people from cultures that traditionally value inter generational care and relationships, but whom don’t encroach on things like study and partner choice.

I didn't say you though did I? Nobody is going to say it's unreasonable to ask for HELP when there is a very real need for it. You should perhaps try to stop being so self-absorbed and thinking everything is about you when it isn't

I certainly dont think everything is about me. I was responding to your inaccurate generalisation that parents only want childcare to do fun things. They dont- hence why I provided an example from my own life. Also, your insistence that it was a false equivalency because elderly people NEED help but parents dont. Its not about me or what I do, its about the fact that of all the people I know, literally none of them are wanting childcare just to go to the pub and that is something I have ever seen in general life so it cant be as common as you think it is.

Also, maybe YOU should stop being so self absorbed and recognise that a few posts on mumsnet arent representative of every parent in the world

Obviously there are wide variations, given sample size, but it makes me laugh when people want to cherry pick bits of other cultures that relate to regular childcare, while also expecting GPs to have no opinions whatsoever on childrearing, want to charge their DC rent the minute they turn 18...

Other cultures that value intergenerational care are very complex and it's not as easy as people here seem to think. Hence why I paid for childcare.

To clarify, I am not Jane Fondue. I am just from a similar culture and felt I wanted to reply to that comment.

Hmmm, I was the one who mentioned culture and H's family dont work like that at all. Seems you are stereotyping more than a little here.

You should have a look at the Brown MN forum sometime to see many posters who rushed to enter joint families because they thought intergenerational living would be great and found it didn't work for them. It's very romanticised on the rest of MN.

There was an interesting post on a mother of 2 expressing concern that her 2 older children ages 19 and 15, when asked, stated that they were adverse to her having a new sperm donor.fathered with her same sex partner of 5 years.

Many of the responders said that the children should have no input into the mother's exercise of her reproductive rights and raised issues of a woman 's right to autonomous control of her body.

Questions like this one go a long way to suggest that for many women, the exercise of " their reproductive rights " comes with big expectations of other people. If grand parents are expected to contribute child care, support, etc. This ceases to be such an autonomous decision. Maybe women who need and expect assistance should also seek input from those that they expect assistance before they decide to become pregnant or choose to follow through with the pregnancy.

Woman should be consulting those people from whom they are experiencing support as to the timing of the pregnancy, the number of children for whom they are expecting support ,etc.

It is very selfish and short sighted to choose to have children to satisfy your maternal instincts and yet assume that you have a support network that should just adapt their life to fit in with your needs and expectations.

This is truly one of those " if YOU can't do the time, you should seriously consider not doing the ....

I don’t think there is obligation - however, I was minded by my nana as a child and when she got older I loved helping her out, she meant the world to me. I didn’t see or spend much time with my other nana and as an adult I feel indifferent really about her in comparison. It sounds mean but it’s honest. The previous poster who said you reap what you sow was right In my experience. I don’t get any help but will help my kids, I would love my grandkids to be as close to me as I was my nana! I think had it not been for her childcare, our time together wouldn’t have been half as special! I remember her making barbie doll dresses with me out of dusters, something that just wouldn’t have happened had it been a normal visit with my parents.

When you get older, you aren’t so healthy, fact. You also get more tired, fact. Try being older before you comment.

Very similar situation here- I was looked after by my nan a lot when young and as a result we were very close. I helped her/visited her a lot when I was in college and years afterwards when I started my career, did lots for her. I didnt help out with my other grandparent as I rarely saw her and we didnt really have any relationship at all- (it was her choice not to see me much when I was young and whilst she wasnt unpleasant, she simply showed no interest in me or my life). To me, she was just a distant relative whom I barely knew. Therefore, in this sense its completely natural to "reap what you sow" because if you dont foster relationships then they will drift. Thats just common sense- all relationships take effort on both sides. You cant expect to be largely absent from someone's life for years and then suddenly expect them to jump when you need something from them.

Well, I'm 67 and definitely more tired than I was 10 years ago. I don't do so much DIY as I used to for example because it becomes knackering. But I can pay someone to do that! If I had grandkids I really would be exhausted having to care for them on a daily basis. I know I would not be able to do it, not week in week out. I have no real health issues, touch wood, but get tired more. It's a natural part of aging.

Oh I'm not saying everything in different cultures is perfect by any means. However, one thing I do greatly respect is that there is always help and care. You can admire the way other people treat their families without rose tinted glasses. There are many disadvantages to western style nuclear families too and its ok to recognise that, it doesnt mean you hate western culture or anything. Most cultures have their good points and bad points.

@Yummymummy2020
My children spent a lot of time with their grandparents, by choice of the grandparents. However, we did not choose to have children until we could afford children and all of the costs and time commitments associated with having children. Grandparent time and relationships can be very special, and most grandparents want those special experiences. However, with that does not come the expectation that you are going to become the default
nursery provider. Well raised adults make those provisions and arrangements before having a child , and they certainly don't have several children with the expectation of imposing on grandparents.

There seems to be an endless number of postings lamenting the lack of support from grandparents and extended families. Few of these complaining posters ever bother to articulate the plans and resources that they had in place before deciding to have a child, and many have several young children without planning for these very obvious needs.

No matter how willing parents are to step in and assist, it is an inconsiderate and entitled adult child who expects child care support from parents and extended family who have not made an offer of such support.

The real solution is to not have any or more children than you can provide for on your own.

You’re lucky to be healthy when you’re older but there’s no doubt your body has aged, it happens to everyone and most peers I talk to have some health issues in their later years.

You youngsters need to remember and respect that. We don’t all moan about get older and all our aches and pains but it’s a reality for us all.

Obligated? I think not!

YABU. Let grandparents enjoy their retirement in peace! A bit of help here and there is great, but I would never ask for regular help (and pretty sure my parents would say no anyway).

Well raised adults make those provisions and arrangements before having a child , and they certainly don't have several children with the expectation of imposing on grandparents

Well raised adults should also put money aside for their retirement and not expect to impose on their kids for their care too by this rationale. If their adult kids want to help them, thats great, but it shouldnt be "expected" either.

But no one is saying the grandparents are expecting to be financially (or otherwise) looked after in their old age are they? This is a bonkers rationale.

Most do. That is why we see so many posts on Mumsnet whining that the older generation have more money. Money that they saved all their lives. That their adult children think should be handed over to them.

What upsets me most when I'm on my knees is that someone who is meant to love me so much can stand by and watch me suffer. That's what makes me physically cry.
My kids see me so stressed trying to arrange childcare, but I promise myself I will never stand by and watch them have the same issue. As they get older I will make them promise to help each other.

@Groutyonehereagain how rude you are. I'm no spring chicken myself actually. You didn't say more tired on your original comment you simply just said if you don't have your health. I would consider health to be health related issues. My parents are both in good health. No question they are more tired now than 30 years ago, but both in good health.

It's a very bad idea indeed to force people into promising to care for others.

I would want to offer as a retired person myself, I think it depends on the person, some people would find it stressful or restricting and it is okay to say no. My mum does a couple of hours a week for me as it's evening after nursery closes but does always tell me if someone asked her to do something or there was an appointment she could have gone to but 'had to turn it down because of this'..

If I could have found something with those times and paid I would prefer that myself, I think when someone does you a favour they will feel a little resentment if they have to turn down other plans regularly.

Saying that, I would want to do one or two days a week happily for grandchildren, and would just plan things on other days - I really love babies/young children though. Has to be something they are happy to/want to do