to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

I think the adult children generally pretend to believe that grandparents love being unpaid childcare while knowing quite well they find it exhausting, draining and unpleasant. Ifvthey admit the truth to themselves they would have to face the fact that they are exploiting someone who loves them.

They are not offering NO childcare, just not a regular slot. And you can afford to pay for a regular slot so I think YABU.

Childcare is very tiring after a certain age and a regular slot is restrictive. Especially if they also have other children who may also expect the same.

If they are willing to have the kids for a day or a sleepover now and then, make the most of that. I do think THAT is something that grandparents should provide if they can. I cannot imagine seeing my own children struggling with young kids and not offering to give them a break now and then.

Yes, so true. The reason childminders are like gold dust is because looking after babies and toddlers on your own in your own home is extraordinarily hardwork. My friend, who could have filled her waiting list ten times over, quit at 50 and she genuinely liked very small children. But the physical lifting, changing and being always on duty was too much for her. It was very lonely work too.

You don't know how you will feel when your children have their own children. I found five dc including two with autism a doddle when I was younger and fitter. Having dgs now I am older is exhausting and that's for a three nearly four year old who is NT and generally well behaved. There is a huge difference between energy and stamina levels now and then plus it's easier parenting your own than providing care whilst also being mindful of someone else's wishes/demands.

Sorry to those who say that. But I definitely bring my kids up to be compassionate, kind and helpful. I could never witness another person suffer of I could help and neither could my children. Our children exist because we wanted them but we have an obligation to guide to being good people not selfish ones.
To many selfish, me first people out there. Always shocks me. fitzwilliamdarcyfitzwilliamdarcy

Surely this is a joke. It is not your parents responsibility to care for children you chose to have. They had children cared for them and are now free to choose what they do. My parent in law offered regular childcare but we turned it down as personally I think if you can afford to pay for it you shouldn't burden grandparents with it. Grandparents should be free to take holidays when they want and go off to visit friends if they want not be tied to looking after someone else's children for free. We did say to parents in law that they were free to have the grandchildren anytime they wanted to but that we would continue with paid childcare. It worked well pil would collect children from childcare to take them out and about but didn't have to get up at dawn and be committed to coming all the time.

It's not being selfish to say you don't want to provide childcare for your grandchildren. It's more selfish to believe you are entitled to expect that grandparents should provide childcare so that you can save money or the effort of sorting your own childcare. Yes bring your children up to be kind and good people but also give them the knowledge and resources so they can look after their own children and not need to rely on the goodwill or guilt of an older generation who have already done their share of child rearing.

Interesting take on it. Not everyone who has children are in a state of suffering. We don't all need rescuing.

It's morally wrong to have children and expect free childcare from others. We chose to have children. If someone looks after them for free it's a massive bonus. Otherwise, we pay for childcare.

I am sure @Lonejohny will explain to her children the suffering caused by having kids, and caution them against doing the same.

I can see both sides really.

There is an underlying bitterness with me and my mum because of the lack of childcare/help. I understand to a degree, but with the help she received, I thought she would have been a bit more understanding.

When I was younger, me and my sister went to our grandparents house every single Friday night so she could have a night out. We were picked up by my granny from school and kept until lunch time on Saturday. Every week. My granny also picked us up from school everyday, fed us dinner and dropped us back at half 5 or so on weekdays so she could work.

My mum decided when she remarried to have more children in a house that couldn't fit us all. I was moved out of the family home and moved permanently into my grandparents house at 13. It was either that, or share a room with 2 younger sisters. My grandparents provided all my meals, my care right up until I was 18 and moved out.

Fast forward to now, my mum has 2 grandchildren and works part time for 24 hours a week as she's still young (52). She rarely has her grandchildren, even for a couple of hours. She has taken my son overnight for around 3 nights in 6 years. She has a Monday off, and even in an emergency will "compromise" to take him for an hour or so out of an 8 hour working day. She used to help me taking child to school in the mornings as it was on her route, but has since stopped this and told me to put him in breakfast club so I can drop off earlier.

I know that my child is my responsibility, but there is some resentment there and abandonment issues on my side, with how heavily she depended on my grandparents and how little she participates. It has been a long standing issue talked about in therapy and it has impacted my mental health a lot more than I imagined (the living out the family home so young).

My grandparents were fantastic when I was growing up and when my granny died when I was 20, it genuinely was like losing a mum.

I will be 100% up for looking after my grandchildren overnight at weekends etc in the future. Just due to the close bond I had with mine.

"I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?"

In these cultures it is also normal for adult offspring to look after their parents in old age. Presumably you would also see this as a moral obligation on you when the time comes.

Disagree. Becoming a parent shouldn’t mean signing yourself up for childcare during retirement. I think it’s nice to think of time spent between grandparents and their grandchildren through rose-tinted glasses but the reality is kids - especially younger ones - can be hard work, hence some women (often) say on here they find actual work a break from being a mum. I’d rather work part-time for longer in my now relatively easy job than retire then provide a few days of childcare a week which I think is far more physical and tiring than a lot of jobs. My eldest needed constant eyes on them as they were non-stop and couldn’t entertain themselves for a little while with a book or colouring or something. They’d try opening cupboards, running near sharp furniture edges… They only stopped to sleep. I have fond memories of my relationship with my grandparents but they didn’t provide childcare. My parents did the discipline and parenting part; my granny did the fun stuff like baking with me and my grandad took us on walks and things. Of course grandparents should be helpful if possible when there’s a childcare emergency.

Nope. You chose to have children. They are entirely your responsibility.

@Scalottia yes but it's a bit rich when your own parents had unlimited help from their parents but then don't understand why you may need help on occasion.

I don't think grandparents should be obligated to provide childcare but I do think it's strange when grandparents don't seem that interested in taking the kids out places or having them round to stay now and again.

I think it effects the bond between them and if they don't put in much effort then I think it will come back to bite them in the bum as the kids grow up.

But surely if your parents outsourced your care to your Grandparents didn't it occur to you that they wouldn't want to care for your children either? I can't imagine that rationally anyone would think "oh well my parents needed a lot of help from my grandparents but of course twenty odd years later they will jump at the chance to do something that they didn't want or feel able to do when they were younger and fitter and had the obligation"

I don’t think grandparents do have a moral obligation but I do think many need to be honest about how much family help they had and how much they are actually going to give.

I know too many that will swear up and down they did it on their own and use it as a reason not to help (which they can) yet their adult children know that’s a lie or give loads to some of their children while making others have to ask for a few hours a year.

I’ve also had friends who were nagged to death by their parents wanting grandchildren and asking them when they’ll have children, promising they’ll help, and then once they get grandchildren, they “forget” such promises and can’t be bothered.

Better to expect you’ll be doing it on your own and paying for help when needed. If you get help, great but don’t expect it.

@hiredandsqueak we don't get any help and we don't ask for it. I am talking about stuff like holiday care etc. I was never out of my grandparents' house (although my parents are constantly trying to rewrite history) and I find it a bit galling that they don't understand why we might need occasional help.
My dad has never done anything to help. My mum has babysat once for two hours, after we put our son to bed. Eldest is 4.5.
I will not be like this with my.own kids, even though I'll be ancient when I become a grandma.

@FrodisCapering I didn't get any help with mine but dm died when I was a teen and df moved a long way away. I have and still do provide childcare for dd because of her particular circumstances because I won't see her struggle but in an ideal world I would be the Granny who had a weekend visit and took them on the odd day out during school holidays.
I found wrangling my own 5dc (2 ASD) a doddle when I was half the age I am now. I'm exhausted now after a full day of dgs who is nearly four and pretty well behaved so can understand other GP's reluctance.

This is why i (as a child free by choice woman) would never date a man with kids OR with grown up kids because if i became a step grandparent i would be expected to step up.

@hiredandsqueak we can only dream of the odd day out! We'd be grateful for half an hour so we could have a coffee together on our own!

Our parents “help” by entertaining our DV once or twice a year (always in our house) for about an hour 😂 PIL will babysit maybe once a year, but only if our DC are already asleep. Helpful? Not really.

I can’t wait to look after my future grandchildren. What I won’t be doing is looking after old grandparents!!

I agree with you OP to a point. My father in law watches ours two mornings so I can sleep after my nightshift. I don't earn much as a Band 2 (NHS) and it was clearly a financial decision for us more than wanting childcare to be family. BUT he offered and said to him it's about wanting to spend time with the grandkids. I feel very blessed in that regard.

Some of my colleagues however are working on themselves to the bone in their 60s and have their grandkids every day they're off work. It's not healthy!

Some of my colleagues however are working on themselves to the bone in their 60s and have their grandkids every day they're off work. It's not healthy
Yep. But the reality is if they don’t, one of their children or children-in-law’s will start a thread on a site like this and bitch no end about them. My mother/mother-in-law gets 2 days off yet won’t look after my children, the horror. Then everyone will pile on and tell them to go NC.

I just don’t even understand how it’s possible for most people to do. I’ve already ‘retired’ from my job when I got too old for the hours and bullshit. Got myself a cushy desk job, and while I’ve decreased my hours to ‘only’ 60ish hours per week, I’m wfh and only go to my office one day a week so still doable at my age. Basically for me to not be able to continue with this job I’ll need to have significant physical/mental deterioration. If this occurs, I’ll be in no state to look after kids. Who on earth would leave a 3yo with someone who can’t handle a desk job! I’ll never forget on one of these silly threads someone said I should therefore pay the nursery fees for the days that I otherwise could have done. It was moot as my kids don’t have kids as yet, but the entitlement now is just staggering. Fuck that for a joke. Maybe people should take the cost of kids into account before having them. That’s something I taught my kids and I think that’s a much greater gift than forced childminding.