To not want to speak to friend about her child’s weight?

[wingingit1987]

For a bit of background- there is a group of 4 of us who have known each other since primary school. We all have young kids and see each other often. I’m closer to one of the girls and consider her my best friend.

She has a son who just turned 5. He is very overweight for his age. I would go as far as to say obese. He wears age 10-11 clothes and recently outgrew a lot of them and passed them on to one of the other girls sons(he is 10). This is what sparked this conversation as we are due to meet up for one of the kids birthday parties this week, and the other two have been texting me privately to say they think we should speak to her about her sons weight.

I see my friend at least once or twice a week and I realise he is big. It is down to diet- my friend is also obese. By her own admission he overeats- she said he eats 6 packs of crisps a day, adult portions of food etc. she always dismisses his weight being an issue and says he wears bigger clothes because he is tall, that it’s puppy fat etc.

I agree with my other friends 110% that he is unhealthy and overweight but my issue is that health professionals already know this and I don’t see what difference it would make for us to have some sort of intervention. She has several professionals involved in his care as he has additional support needs. They have addressed this with my friend already.

My friends think we are being neglectful not to say anything but I just don’t see how it would help as she absolutely does not feel it’s an issue.

@RubbishHusband - child protection is EVERYONES job. The input from professionals clearly isn't working and perhaps she needs a friend honest support.
The mother is admitting to large portions and many packets of crisps. She is buying and preparing the food - she is to blame.

@Babsexxx my autistic kid doesn’t know the difference between thirsty and hungry, or tired and hungry, or bored and hungry. He interrupts every uncomfortable physical sensation as hungry. Add that to the fact he is obsessed with oral sensory sensations and it can be a nightmare. This boy may be the same.

Mine isn’t overweight (he has medical problems which means he is regularly weighed and measured and the doctor/nurse/consultant would definitely tell me, you can see his ribs etc) but it feels a lot like luck- he is obsessed with the crunchy sensation of cucumber sticks so he gets his sensory satisfaction from that- if he was obsessed with crisps our house would be a constant battleground.

She is a single mum caring for a non verbal, high needs child. Fuck off with your home truths and poor parenting. We have no idea as to the significance of this child's needs

Its not just about losing weight, losing weight at 5yo isn't ideal. A dietician will most likely advise weight maintenance rather than loss and growing into his weight. Weight management is complex and is really not as simple as poor parenting, it's a medical issue and should be handled by medical professionals

@RubbishHusband - no need for swearing.

Being obese at 5years old is a serious h physical and emotional issue. Perhaps her friends can say ''how can we help here..we're worried about yours and child's health'

It's very clear the parent is over feeding the child - perhaps as a way to parent high needs- understandable BUT not acceptable and it's dangerous for the child. She's making her own life easier temporarily at the serious detriment to her child.
Just because she cares about her child it doesn't mean her care is good enough.

Adult portions and many packs of crisps a day is not a medical issue....

@Jojobees this was my 5yo in 9-10 clothes at 142cms - he’s heavy and solid and tall, but by no means “scarily overweight”. Don’t make sweeping assumptions.

As with my previous post the professionals may have advised not losing weight. We haven't weighed this child so we have no idea what's actually going on with his weight, and it's not a friends place to comment on what is actually a very complex medical issue. We have no idea what medical professionals have advised with regards to his weight, amd they are best placed to make the decision as to what to do and safely.Managing intake in SN children is complex. He maybe Sensory seeking hence the crisps, having meltdowns or getting extremely distressed. He may not be able to identify feelings of hunger/thirst. There maybe underlying medical conditions e.g prader willi syndrome that are yet to be diagnosedYes weight management in a SN child is a medical issue. And whilst yes obesity has health risks this needs to be balanced against managing his other needs. Which a fucking dietician and paediatrician, who is under the care of, will be best placed to determine. Not some random Internet person who has never met the child.If the child was anorexic with SN and being cared for by medical professionals would you think it appropriate to have a concerned conversation with the parents? And tbh if he has complex needs awaiting diagnosis that is a bigger issue in terms of his emotional wellbeing right now than his weight

@Brewskipa - I don't think it was a sweeping assumption. Sounds like your son is the exception. But for most (especially children who are massively over fed) the sizing indicates a serious health issue.

Thank you- I’ll tell her about this.

@RubbishHusband - still swearing I see.

The question here is should the person speak to her friend about the weight. YES
Let's not assume it's some complex issue but use the information at hand- which is that the parent is obese and over feeding her child.

If there are complex issues and advice against weight loss- ok doke. I doubt the doctors are recommended adult portions and 6 packs of crisps a day though..

So thoughtful friends might say ''how can we support his care..''

Nope. I'd keep shtum. It sounds like you have a lovely friendship and I wouldn't risk it. Also like another poster said his sen could play into his eating habits re textures and not having a varied diet. In stead I would choose to have playdates at the park, in your garden of you have one at softplay, basically anywhere he can run around. It must be incredibly isolating for her with a child who is non verbal and those feelings will likely increase as he goes through school and all your kids are achieving in a way he isn't. I'd be a supportive friend, if she asks for advice then by all means give it.

I'd tell your other friends they can do as they wish but to leave you put of it.

The elephant in the room is that the mum is also overweight. How is a son with complex SEN needs supposed to lose and maintain a healthy weight with an obese mother who does the food shopping and cooking? There can be all the professional support and nutritional guidance in the world but it would be very optimistic to expect drastic changes. She would effectively have to be shopping and cooking for two separate people. He gets the fruits, veg, low carb, portion controlled mealplan (if that's even remotely feasible in light of his other support-requiring needs) and she continues with her diet of high carbs, fat, sugar and salt which he can't partake in. That's completely unrelated to whether the food budget even allows that.

As a friend, just bringing up the issue may be with the best of intentions but she will have no help with the logistical or financial side of things.

An intelligent post.

He’s 5. I know you stated he has “complex needs” but over eating here is learnt behaviour. She’s exposed him to adult portions of food and 6 bags of crisps a day - he didn’t magically have a reasonable diet and then decide to eat to excess himself. He’s only 5. I have concerns about safeguarding if she doesn’t know that it’s not acceptable to feed her child like this. What else is she being complacent on?

The fact that it's true that she and her son are very overweight does not make it your business or the business of the other friends in the friendship circle.

Professionals are already involved, and persuading the mum to give appropriate care to the child is their business - and if that fails to the point that the failure to safeguard the child's health and wellbeing becomes a more serious concern, then it's for those professionals to ring the alarm bells.

The only thing you and your friends should do is make sure you aren't actively working against the advice of the professionals. So if she complains to you that she's been told to eg limit him to fewer crisps and have some fruit instead and she can't take the moaning, be actively supportive of the side of that internal conflict that is pulled towards following that guidance, rather than overly sympathetic to the opposite impulse to give in to the moaning for a quiet life. Don't reinforce the delusion that "he's big boned" or "it's just puppy fat" by agreeing with it (but don't start an argument amount it, just don't actively agree). Focus on things like "I'm sure the doctors know what they are talking about", but don't take it on yourselves to dispense unasked-for advice.

I do agree. The mum being overweight herself isn't going to help the issue. She needs to rethink her eating habits also. It's not a surprise he's overweight if his mum is.

Thanks everyone. She is also overweight, yes. She has been as long as I have known her. She lost some weight recently but this was through stress and not eating. I think a lot of it is down to her finding food is one of the few things that settled him and it probably is the easiest go to distraction. His behaviour is becoming quite difficult for her to handle and I can understand if she is on her own with him and he is being violent and aggressive, why she would relent. Although I also wholeheartedly agree it’s not the way to manage it. I feel like it would be the easiest thing in the world to assume I would do XYZ in her position but the truth is, I genuinely have no idea how she copes. Some days she seems to be hanging on by a thread.

She does seem to bury her head in the sand. For example, it took forever for her to accept that he had additional support needs. Months and months of the nursery and Health visitor trying to talk to her about it before she accepted it. I don’t think she is deliberately being like this though, if that makes sense. I think she panics and can’t cope so just becomes avoidant.

When should a friend say something? When there's abuse?? I'd argue this is physical abuse.
Either she is ignorant (unlikely given the professional involvement), unwilling (very possible given she has not addressed her own personal health needs) or unable to provide proper care - she's clearly had professional advice and yet has confined to feed her child harmful foods.
Good people need to speak up and worry more about a child then a friendship.
If she is a good mum she will appreciate the honest concern rather than lash out.

@wingingit1987 I have a similar situation with someone close to me. Significant additional needs. Plainly, food pacifies them and as their behaviour is very difficult to manage so food is used as a tool. They eat McDonald’s several times a week, basically eat junk all the time, I have witnessed them eat an entire tube of Pringles, McDonald’s etc all in the same day and seen them be served junk food meals 5x in one day. Parents are well aware they are now obese but don’t really know how to manage it without the inevitable fall out of withdrawing a comfort.

I think it could have been better managed at the outset and think they will soon have the additional burden of diabetes to manage - child has already lost most of their mobility, but I keep out of it. It’s complicated for all involved and beyond my pay grade. Leave it to the professionals it’s their job to deliver the news…

@Jellyx if there weren't professionals involved then I would agree with you. However as the child is already under the care of appropriate professionals, it's up to them to determine whether the situation amounts to abuse. OP doesn't have any professional insight into this situation and may not have all the facts. If she raised safeguarding concern then the appropriate outcome would be to refer the child to appropriate professionals to determine whether the child's health is being neglected, but those professionals are already on the scene.

If OPs friend stopped engaging with the professionals, and started avoiding or refusing appointments because of wanting to be in denial, that's the sort of time when it would be appropriate to start reporting concerns officially. But if the mum is engaging with the support she is being given and is trying to work within the professionals' advice then a further "intervention" from so-called friends isn't going to help and could actually be damaging.

Turning up to appointments is not 'engagement.' Shes clearly not following a diet plan. Her actions could be considered 'disguised compliance' - and she could be lying to professionals.
'Disguised compliance' is also a tricky one to report to social work. And social work might not go near or given the high involvement of other professionals.
I just think it's morally wrong to keep quiet when you KNOW a child is being harmed by her parents actions (whether she means the child harm or not is irrelevant - the harm is still happening) and it's EVERYONES job to protect children and rely fully on massive overworked and underpaid professionals x

I can’t see how broaching the subject with her, particularly as a group, would help. It would just add to her stress. If she brings the subject up when you’re alone with her and talks about the professionals that are advising her I wouldn’t collude with saying that there isn’t a problem. I would talk generally about what he would eat instead of crisps and how she copes if he tantrums about food. I think criticism would make things worse.

Could the lad had prada-willi syndrome?

You have no idea what plan she's been given or whether she's following it. You keep repeatedly ignoring the needs of this child, and the complexity of this issue. You have no idea the pattern of this child's weight and what the health professionals are asking.

Again the professionals are not idiots. They are also the ones able to determine any harm being done to the child, not you.

And I'll swear if I want to. It's MN not a primary school, everyones an adult. Especially when people are being so obtuse

I would genuinely like to see some of the parents on here calling abuse manage the weight of a non verbal child with significant needs as easily as they claim.