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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do these fathers actually want children?

358 replies

Daftasyoulike · 10/04/2023 17:01

I see a lot of posts on MN about absent Fathers who don't pay maintenance, don't make any effort to see their children, etc. Is it unreasonable to ask whether these men ever actually wanted kids in the first place, or was it a case of accidental pregnancies, which were allowed to continue in the hope that 'he will come around to the idea once the baby arrives', and then when the relationship breaks up, you find that he never really cared about having the kids in the first place, so doesn't feel he should contribute emotionally or financially to the raising of his children?

OP posts:
GobbieMaggie · 10/04/2023 19:01

Parky04 · 10/04/2023 18:52

I agree. If up to men, the human race would die out!

And if we ever get a male contraceptive pill then you will see the birth rate plummet!.

TrishM80 · 10/04/2023 19:02

What I find amazing in the UK is the amount of women who get pregnant within a few months of a relationship. Like they're so desperate for a baby as an accessory like a designer handbag or something, that they'll just let any arsehole be the father!

And then complain when said arsehole doesn't turn out to be father of the year!

DHsPoorBack · 10/04/2023 19:02

I see it a lot on mumsnet to be honest, if a woman says she’s pregnant after a short fling, posters piling on to say what a shit the father is for not being thrilled, but how fantastic the OP is. Whilst the father is clearly a dick for not using condoms if he didn’t want kids, I think it’s also pretty shitty behaviour from the woman in question and most of the time it’s obvious from how thrilled she is that it wasn’t simply a “contraception failure”

Yeah, pretty much. The nonsense "well he had unprotected sex with you, what did he expect, congratulations!" Like she's some kind of hero for lying about being on birth control, resulting in a child that one parent wants nothing to do with. A parent who would not have gone anywhere near the mother if she hadn't been deceptive about her birth control. Knowingly having sex with a 1% chance of an accident is not the same as having sex with someone knowing there's a high likelihood of pregnancy, and is trying to get pregnant, so will 100% keep any resulting pregnancy.

Yes, they both conceived the child. But that's not the same as keeping the child and raising it for the rest of your life (18yrs at least). She can terminate, with zero regard to the father's feelings, he might be relieved, or he might be heartbroken. But there's no one up in arms about that. But if she chooses to have a child the other parent states they do not wish to have, she then declares him a deadbeat with a chorus of support because, she made a choice against the other parent's wishes. Of course, choose to keep your child. Choose whatever you like. But own your decision. You knew the situation when you chose to keep the child.

Obviously doesn't apply to planned children, where the fathers leave. But then far fewer of those are totally absent and non paying. There are exceptions, but it's much less common than a man who doesn't want a child, clearly explaining this from the offset, then shock horror, not wanting the child.

hoven · 10/04/2023 19:06

TheVanguardSix · 10/04/2023 18:54

Hoven what country are you posting from? Surely you know that child maintenance is not a court ordered process because it’s out of the court’s jurisdiction.
It’s a separate entity.

And it’s CAFCASS not Social Services that deals with active child arrangement proceedings in family court. SS can be involved under very specific circumstances. They’re not the cavalry coming over the hill, sorting out unfair splits.
Your questions are irrelevant and not that helpful. You don’t have the understanding required to present your questions (which I don’t believe you’re asking for answers and insight but to goad posters).

No I don't have much knowledge of these processes admittedly as I haven't been through them.

I do not believe a person can simply refuse to pay CMS. I have posted what I have found to be true attached.

Also if the main parent is not happy with bearing the main responsibility of looking after the children they can definitely contact social services to explain this. It won't necessarily mean the other parent will take on more responsibility but other arrangements could be made.

Do these fathers actually want children?
Do these fathers actually want children?
P3N · 10/04/2023 19:10

My best friend ex was an abusive arsehole who actively tried and succeed in getting her pregnant, telling her all the things she wanted to hear and convinced her to have more than one of his children (despite him having multiple kids and my friend looking after his previous children too) and then he fucked off. So yes, he wanted her barefoot and pregnant, easy to control.

gazpachosoupday · 10/04/2023 19:13

@hoven

If the father is self employed, they just dont pay themselves on the book,
If they give up their job and go on benefits, I believe its £5 a week could be a month. Do you think you could raise a child on £5 a week?

As for the OP, my friend was happily married, they had a child, child was disabled, father fucked off, because "its too much"

And lets face it, no man is going to say, I persuaded my ex partner to have kids, figured out it was too much hard work/she wouldn't give me as much attention/ I had to stop going down to the pub every night, so I left.

Instead, we get the whole, my ex is stopping me from seeing my child and I dont have the money to go to court

Ilovemycatalot · 10/04/2023 19:15

I think British society allows men to get away with it as it’s seen as acceptable and even other women don’t bat an eyelid when they get together with a man who has kids from a previous relationship he never sees.
we need to shame men more who abandon their kids , more consequences if they don’t pay maintenance etc
A man is seen as a good dad if he has his kids a couple of hours eow and that’s a pretty low bar.
Men need to be held more accountable in this country.
Also agree with another poster who said most men are not even bothered about having kids I think most go along with it but are pretty ambivalent about it in general.

HerRoyalStressHead · 10/04/2023 19:16

I was with my kids dad for 12 years. Now he does nothing at all with them. Although he does pay maintenance.
He doesn't have contact with them at all, and the DC don't want contact with him either.
He's an abusive alcoholic (was sober until the last year of our relationship) so it's no wonder they don't want to see him to be honest. And frankly he doesn't seem to care.
But to answer your question, yes he wanted children. He just happened to change his mind once they were actually here and he realised they require effort.

TheVanguardSix · 10/04/2023 19:19

Hoven? Are you AI? 😳

hoven · 10/04/2023 19:21

@gazpachosoupday sorry about your friend. I'm not denying this happens but I consider it exceptional circumstances.

Even the example you used of a self employed man is niche. Only 13% of the population in 2023 is self employed- only 65% are men.

Ilovemycatalot · 10/04/2023 19:25

Let’s face it men will always think with their penis so will not care about using a condom they just think of the moment not the consequences.

theblackradiator · 10/04/2023 19:28

GobbieMaggie · 10/04/2023 19:01

And if we ever get a male contraceptive pill then you will see the birth rate plummet!.

most men wouldn't bother to take the male contraceptive pill as they don't give a shit about getting a woman pregnant as they can just as easily piss off and leave her to it.
Infact a lot of dickhead men like the fact that they've got random children here, there and everywhere and see it as a badge of honour. must make them feel more masculine that they've managed to impregnate women so many times. Once heard one dickhead man saying to a friend "well atleast I know my balls work". he looked like they type not to stick around for his child.

Bumply · 10/04/2023 19:30

I was with my partner for 15 years before we decided to have children.
Things were fine after Ds1 was born.
Less so 4 years later when ds2 was born "I knew you wanted another child and thought it would bring us back together more" (having never once let on that he had any doubts about our relationship and planned second child)
He left me before ds2 was 1.
Had them three weekends out of four for the first couple of years, then every other weekend. Then the visits got less and the child support dropped completely.
Now they're in their 20s and he's managed to piss off the eldest to the extent they never talk and barely email and managed to call the youngest on 'his' birthday having forgotten which birthday was which (their birthdays are two weeks apart)

So he didn't start out as a waste of space and there's no way I could have foreseen how it would end, even when I got pregnant with ds2.

Starlightstarbright1 · 10/04/2023 19:31

Yabu -we had fertility treatment prior to having my D’s - although he is not a result of fertility treatment he was very much wanted .

exh did not understand a baby comes before him and his what was subtle abusive behaviour increased in pregnancy and after the birth.

so you can blame me for picking a shit partner if you want … but somewhere he was a grown man who had a voice . He now doesn’t see dh pays £7 a week through cms which his Mum actually pays 🙄

eloquent · 10/04/2023 19:32

Stompythedinosaur · 10/04/2023 17:06

I couldn't care less whether the men wanted their dc, it makes no difference to their legal or ethical responsibility to their dc once they are here.

If they wanted to opt out of the risk of having dc, you do that my not having sex, or having a vasectomy.

I think it is astonishing to put the needs of men not to be mildly inconvenienced by their own life choices ahead of the rights of women not to have to cover the share of the labour of raising a child that belongs to the father, and rights of children to be financially and emotionally supported by their parents.

I agree with this.

ShannonMcFarland · 10/04/2023 19:34

In my case, we were together for many years before we had children and he wanted them a long time before I did. In hindsight there were some red flags but nothing that would've indicated the scale of fucked up-ness he'd later reveal himself to be.

Ingrowncrotchhair · 10/04/2023 19:35

Did someone send a link to this thread around a Fathers for Justice support group ?

PaigeMatthews · 10/04/2023 19:35

Ilovemycatalot · 10/04/2023 19:15

I think British society allows men to get away with it as it’s seen as acceptable and even other women don’t bat an eyelid when they get together with a man who has kids from a previous relationship he never sees.
we need to shame men more who abandon their kids , more consequences if they don’t pay maintenance etc
A man is seen as a good dad if he has his kids a couple of hours eow and that’s a pretty low bar.
Men need to be held more accountable in this country.
Also agree with another poster who said most men are not even bothered about having kids I think most go along with it but are pretty ambivalent about it in general.

I agree with this.

id add that some men do make a decision to plan a child. They want the child. But they dont expect to have responsibility for them. That’s for the woman. Even with a lot of fathers who are still living with their families and are present on weekends, how many still consider the mother the default parent? How many of those good fathers take the day off if the child is sick, arrange all the appointments, buy all the clothes, sort parties etc etc etc.

ThisThreadCouldOutMe · 10/04/2023 19:37

Here's my experience.

DS1 wasn't exactly planned, as in we didn't sit down and decide to have a baby. But we were lax with contraception and decided if it happened it happened (yes itv was irresponsible etc etc. No I don't regret it)
Ex was a good dad. Adored DS1. Thinking about how much they loved each other actually makes me cry.

DS2 was planned. I had a difficult pregnancy and ex really 'stepped up'.
DS2 was born and, again, ex absolutely adored him.

I've got so many photos of the 3 of them just goofing around together. There are some songs I still can't listen to because its reminds me of him singing to our babies. (He left 14 years ago)

3 years later he told me he wanted another DC and asked if we could start trying again. 6 weeks after that he left for another woman, I'm 99% certain he had an affair.

He was still a good dad. Paid maintenance, saw them regularly etc etc. Him and the OW split up. He always made sure the DC bought me presents for Mothers Day/Christmas/Birthday. We went out for meals for birthdays etc.

Then he met his now wife. Reduced his maintenance as she already had 2DC. He phoned me up and laughed about it too. They went on to have more DC. He's fixed his finances in such a way that CMS made a nil assessment. He works cash in hand, but I can't prove it. He barely sees our DC now, and any contact is initiated by them.

Yet old mutual friends tell me what a hero he is for "taking on" his step DC. Angry

Lovingitallnow · 10/04/2023 19:38

@hoven indeed, social services can take your child every other weekend so you can have a break 😂🤣😂🤣

Supernothing22 · 10/04/2023 19:38

So, single mothers raising children on their own, while holding down jobs and being the main carer for their children brough this upon themselves.

Well, I certainly asked my ex to cheat with someone from work while I was on maternity leave, suffering from undiagnosed postnatal depression and battling a broken SEN system for my 6 year old.

I love trying to fit a full time job round childcare because basically dad doesn't have time to look after his children in school holidays as he has I job(!) Oh and he will only pay the basic amount advised by child maintenance because I get enough money.

I do hope you never find yourself in the situation of being a parent to children when you artnet/husband decides they don't want to parent anymore. However if you do you'll soon find out how much hard work it is and I'm sure you'll then try to work out how you trapped that partner/husband Into having children

Tinybrother · 10/04/2023 19:40

Men benefit hugely by being fathers, unlike mothers their status socially and professionally increases with parenthood, and they don’t actually have to do any hard work to gain that status - win-win!. It must be so simple to go through life thinking that all those single mothers were so stupid to have babies with men who didn’t want them, so it serves them right if they don’t get any support.

Offthexmaslist · 10/04/2023 19:42

I would be truly interested in how many accidental pregnancies happen once effective male contraception is available...

hoven · 10/04/2023 19:43

Lovingitallnow · 10/04/2023 19:38

@hoven indeed, social services can take your child every other weekend so you can have a break 😂🤣😂🤣

They can potentially provide foster care of you don't want to look after your children

hoven · 10/04/2023 19:44

Supernothing22 · 10/04/2023 19:38

So, single mothers raising children on their own, while holding down jobs and being the main carer for their children brough this upon themselves.

Well, I certainly asked my ex to cheat with someone from work while I was on maternity leave, suffering from undiagnosed postnatal depression and battling a broken SEN system for my 6 year old.

I love trying to fit a full time job round childcare because basically dad doesn't have time to look after his children in school holidays as he has I job(!) Oh and he will only pay the basic amount advised by child maintenance because I get enough money.

I do hope you never find yourself in the situation of being a parent to children when you artnet/husband decides they don't want to parent anymore. However if you do you'll soon find out how much hard work it is and I'm sure you'll then try to work out how you trapped that partner/husband Into having children

How long into the marriage did plan children?