Furious (again) at sister... how to raise this with DD

[Yellobird]

Met up with my sister today, along with my DC. We don't see eye to eye and have taken very different paths, but my children like her so I go along with it.

DSis has no children. She was having a completely inappropriate conversation with DD about the gender pay gap and its because women can't go part time (in her job)- DD is 9!!! DD asked if that's why she doesn't have children. Sis went on to say that it's part of the reason, but mainly she likes her free time. Now bearing in mind DD thinks she's brilliant and hangs off her every word. Sis went on to say 'imagine if mum and dad wanted to go out tonight, on the spur of the moment. And then check out a new bar or comedy club. We'll they can't because they need to be at home with you and your brothers'

As if DH and I would even want to do that!!! Anyway, DH is doing bath time and I've said I'll go sit with her in bed and talk it through. DH says it's best to leave her so she doesn't dwell and get upset.

WWYD? Utterly furious that Sis has put us in this position after what should have been a nice family day.

Here, here!!

Totally agree @Rainbowsandbutterflies1990 , and I have children too.

I honestly can’t see why any of those topics are inappropriate. In fact, I’d say all of them are pretty important things to speak to children about from a young age.

I completely agree with all this, as I said on an early page in this thread, but I also disagree with the language used, by most of the people here: I might have no children, but DH and I are just as much a family as anyone I know who lives with children as well.

You're being ridiculous. Its actually healthy for your child at 9 to have debates/discussions like this to open their mind and begin to think critically. Why is it inappropriate? Your DD should be capable at 9 of formulating her own opinions.

Yes, it's true. Having children is often wrongly phrased as having a family.

I have children. My best friend doesn’t. I’m delighted that my children have a variety of role models, and don’t assume that there is only one future for them. They see us both living lives that we are happy with.

It’s weird to me that people think like that. If I’m happy with my life, why does it matter if other people would want it or not? I’m the one living it after all.

Different people are made happy by, and find fun in, different things. People can make completely different decisions in life and yet be equally happy, and surely that’s a good thing? If your happiness is based on perceiving yourself as being better off than someone else, and using that as a weapon against them, then it doesn’t really suggest that you are in fact a happy person. It sounds miserable tbh, and not a ‘happiness’ I would want.

This is so incredibly nasty. A bright child would swiftly realise that their parent was unkind if they said things like this to them (sister being jealous because she has no little girl of her own... which you don't know and also news flash you don't own your kids by the way).

Not sure what your sister did so wrong? I think we all need to respect children more these days. It also makes me wonder how much you are censoring what you say to her? I really don't know what your sister said wrong - everything she said was true and there was nothing insulting about you - just truthful that kids do tie you down in life. It's good that your daughter has this kind of open relationship with her aunt and you could do to take a leaf from her book tbh..

Absolutely this. I see way more people with kids pushing their ideals about having kids onto others, either directly or indirectly, and making snide comments about those who don't have kids, than the other way around. I had kids later on, having had unexplained infertility issues, and I know people both with kids and without. I can tell you hands down I've experienced more shit from people with kids than without. And I also know more people with kids who aren't happy with their lot than those without (though of course there are people who are unhappy in both boats and happy in both boats). I also think that its seen as a bit taboo to admit that you struggle with parenting or don't enjoy it so perhaps people get a bit defensive and over exaggerative about how amazing their lives are. Personally yes, I genuinely enjoy my kids and would choose to holiday with them and go to events with them over without. But I know so many friends who actually want child free times and ache for their past selves. I dont know why people have to get so aggressive about their own choices. Basically you like what you like (or you don't- but its your life choice). If you feel so threatened by someone even talking about their own choices and the rationale for it, you really have to question why. I really wouldn't care if my sister who doesn't have kids told my children why she didn't as I'm secure in my choice and that they know they're loved and actually they should be educated and aware of other people and their life choices as my children are their own people and I shouldn't assume they would or should blindly follow my path. If someone is confident in their own parenting why would they feel threatened by that?

I think your overreacting your sister sounds like she was just having a nice chat with your daughter. Your daughter has not reacted in any way. My daughter is four and I tell her like it is sometimes for certain things so she doesn't grow up with rose tinted glasses. It's not mean or harsh it the real world

As if DH and I would even want to do that!!!

Why is the idea of going out with your DH to a comedy club/bar/for a meal such a mad or bad idea ? Are you absolutely sure DH feels the same way as you do @Yellobird ? Do you judge parents who go out for an evening without their children ?

I can't help feeling that you probably suffer from anxiety, your DH is aware and its why he suggested you didn't need to bring it up with DD last night. He knows that this 'huge issue' is related to your anxiety, rather than your Sister's conversation with your daughter.

If your DD is 9 she will be surrounded by children at school who's parents have very different lives to yours, some of them will go out and leave their children with babysitters, some will go abroad without their children, some Mothers will work full-time and use wrap around childcare, some will work part-time and some won't work at all. None of them are wrong, they are all navigating their way through life as best they can.

I bet OP’s husband is gagging for a good night out

More people without children constantly try to make me feel bad when I say I'm done having my one child and don't want to have any more children

I think you should be thankful to have a sister that is able to empower and support the future female population. The fact is when we decide to have children we know we sacrifice a lot and mainly that is our income and free time. Why would your sister pointing this out be such a trigger to you? You have changed the narrative to be about your sister attempting to make your daighter feel rejected and hurt yet your posts do not describe this to be fact. This is more about you than your Daughter. There is absolutely nothing wrong with educating our daughters around the pay gap and male misogyny that still exists. It is your job to have these very relivent conversations with your Daighter now to empower her future choices. It certainly does not reflect on your individual choice to choose parenthood over the freedom of being single.

It would be a real pity if your DS was as bored as you say you were, because the issue of a President committing crimes to cover up scandal and political leaders lying is a very important and indeed interesting one to discuss.

I really doubt that your daughter is in any way concerned about what her aunt says. If she thinks for a moment, it will be obvious to her that clearly adults don't think children spoil their fun, because otherwise she and all her friends and schoolmates wouldn't exist.

I'm struggling to understand what the issue is? She's 9, old enough for more mature conversations. Your sister said absolutely nothing wrong and I think you not liking her much means that she's likely to piss you off over nothings like this all the time. You may want to keep that in mind if your daughter loves her so much as she may well start to resent your attitude towards her

I'm probably unlike many but children are young for such a limited amount of time that I don't think they should be having adult conversations. OP has said her DD is a thinker and therefore certain topics can wait and her sister should know and respect this. OP you can't undo this therefore my advice is to look forward and, if you've not already, have the conversation that includes diversity. What a wonderful life it is to have choices and that actually your sisters career is her choice, being their mum is a choice and one you love. Staying in and spending time with them is a choice and a brilliant one.

I'm not getting it, I'm afraid. I don't have kids & agree with her sentiments. Why would your daughter be upset?! I think you're more upset about it tbh..

You do understand that the only relevant word in your entire post is "I"
Great for you that YOU feel that way. That's fine. But somewhere in your exciting adventurous life you've managed to miss the fairly basic realisation that not everybody else thinks exactly like you.
Your childless siblings might be very glad they never had children, feel that that was the right choice for them, and be pitying you for a multiple of reasons.

Don’t be silly. You said yourself that your children love her. Presumably because she doesn’t patronise them by telling them not to worry their little heads about grown up things. 15 is plenty old enough to talk to about Trump. And 9 is old enough to understand that different grown ups make different choices about what to do with their lives.

Don't get what you're upset about - she's right. Plenty of people WOULD want to check out those things but equally, all the parents out there value having children over spontaneity. It's not like you couldn't go and check new stuff out - you'd just have to do it in a more organised way for 15 years or so.

Calmly explain your side to your DD. Your DSis saying that doesn't mean your DD feels guilty for being a burden does it?

Christ your poor kids. And poor sister. Sounds like she is a lovely engaged aunt who treats them like the intelligent human beings they are. What's "inappropriate" about talking to a 9yo about the gender pay gap? You think as a girl she won't have already noticed the sexism and imbalance in our society and might benefit from having that contextualised? What on earth is wrong with talking to a 15 yo lad (more than likely beginning to explore his own sexuality and manhood) about one of the most egregious examples of toxic masculinity currently around? Your children can't be preserved in aspic as essentially toddlers, all scraped knees and simple pleasures, and then overnight become adults at 18. It's a process, and stimulating discussions with knowledgeable people, supported interaction with big ideas, and learning how other people live differently to us and our closest family, are all part of that process.

You sound like someone who finds current affairs boring (read, too complicated for you to understand) and resent your sister for being informed and opinionated. You also sound like you are insecure about your choices and find her choosing to live differently undermining. One of the things I love most about my kids' childless "aunties" (good friends of mine and my DP, not actual sisters) is the window they give them as girls onto a different life than the one I model, the knowledge they have a range of options. She's was being honest about her reasons and said nothing cruel or untrue!

It wasn't obvious, because it was so ridiculous.

All the sane responses on this thread and this is the moronic one OP will doubtless take away, triumphantly.