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AIBU?

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Original poster

Friend takes offence

268 replies

Booboojump · 08/04/2023 02:49

So one of my friends took major offence to my wording…. She called me out on it and now I’m embarrassed

I invited my friend around this past week with her children via text.

“Would you and the boys like to come over for some lunch and a play in the garden tomorrow, the weather is looking much better”

She has 4 boys, 3 being the same ages as mine. All friendly with each other and get along great

As she came in I used called her children “the boys” would “you boys” like a drink…
she sat down and asked me not to call them “the boys”. I replied a rather embarrassed yeah of course… silence for a few mins then I had start the convo up as it was awkward as hell.

Im terms of gender, im as liberal as they come (sister is a in a same gender relationship and identities as masc) As far as I’m aware all the children identify as the gender they were born as and are typical boys boys.

I would normally message people with multiple children “the girls/boys/children depending of the children's genders rather than writing a full Tom, Dick, Harry and Bob!

I feel awkward now there is tension between us. like I need to watch myself what I say as not to offend!

OP posts:
Shelby2010 · 08/04/2023 10:10

True. But differentiating how you refer to a group of siblings based on their sex alone doesn’t help with reducing bias.

Shelby2010 · 08/04/2023 10:11

@saraclara

EmpressaurusOfCats · 08/04/2023 10:12

Well, the whole ‘gender’ thing is essentially sexist bollocks IMO but it’s up to her. See if she reacts the same to ‘you kids.’

Keha · 08/04/2023 10:15

Growing up, I was part of a group of kids with another family, 4 girls, 1 boy. We were often referred to as "the girls". Do they girls want a drink? Are the girls going? The boy got called his name. Honestly I didn't like it, felt like the girls ceased to have their own names, choices etc. Occasionally it meant we were expected to do something together or share something because it was for the "girls" but the boy got his own. This was the 90s so I think stronger gender stereotypes at play, but it was annoying. Perhaps something like this going on? If she was a good friend, I'd have just asked her why.

Wishihadanalgorithm · 08/04/2023 10:15

It doesn’t matter why the ‘friend’ has taken offence, she’s been a twat. I’d let the friendship dwindle TBH. I wouldn’t want to be around anyone who could make such an issue from ordinary phrasing.

OP, you did nothing wrong.

JulieHoney · 08/04/2023 10:16

There’s a body of evidence that using gendered language entrenches stereotypes. The children, the kids, you guys, etc are also perfectly valid ways to refer to her sons, and it’s not hard to do.

DannyZukosSmile · 08/04/2023 10:16

WimpoleHat · 08/04/2023 10:00

I have three boys and get really fed up of my mum or other relative asking how the boys are.

Why? It’s just a more open question than “How is George?” followed by “….and how is William?” and then “how is Paul?”. It gives you the opportunity to talk about what’s most important in your family at the moment. She presumably knows full well what their names are. I asked my friend “how are your parents?” when I last saw her. Far more natural than asking “How is Rosemary? And Chris?”. Obviously I’m well aware that they are two separate people. People refer to us as “the Hats” to denote a family grouping. It’s just a less formal way of communicating; it isn’t meant to be reductive.

I find it inexplicably weird as well, that people get offended by someone calling their children 'the boys' when they're all boys.

My cousin has five boys/sons (Now in their 20s/early 30s,) and she just calls them 'the lads' and so does everyone else. She doesn't get offended by it, but that's because she hasn't got a stick up her arse, and is not bitter about not having a girl/daughter.

FirstnameSuesecondnamePerb · 08/04/2023 10:18

Message her
"Hope you and Things 1,2,3,and 4 had fun today".

ConstanceOcean · 08/04/2023 10:18

YABU and a bit dramatic.

She asked you not to call her children by something so you should just say ok and move on.

There doesn’t need to be any embarrassment or tension.

You and your DH are overthinking things and just need to move on.

FWIW as a teacher I was told not to say boys/girls or kids (I still find myself doing it all of the time) which has nothing to do with gender or trans issues.

Emotionalsupportviper · 08/04/2023 10:19

JulieHoney · 08/04/2023 10:16

There’s a body of evidence that using gendered language entrenches stereotypes. The children, the kids, you guys, etc are also perfectly valid ways to refer to her sons, and it’s not hard to do.

It only entrenches stereotypes because we tell our children that the boys shouldn't play with dolls and the girls need to sit quietly and have a teddy tea party.

It isn't acknowledging sex which is the problem - it's having "expectations".

JustDanceAddict · 08/04/2023 10:19

Ridiculous. Unless one identifies as female/nb. But if you don’t know, then not a problem. I also call mixed sexed group ‘guys’ - seems to be a catch-all.

Asiatoyork · 08/04/2023 10:20

What do people do if they have adult guests? I’d just ask them who would like a drink without the collective noun

I find a collective noun helps get their attention when they’re playing. I’m really curious as to why she doesn’t like it.

There’s something that really irritates me about ‘the girls’ or ‘the boys’ (my SIL and BIL say it constantly). I always tend to go with ‘kids’, but know some people don’t like that either.

ConstanceOcean · 08/04/2023 10:20

JulieHoney · 08/04/2023 10:16

There’s a body of evidence that using gendered language entrenches stereotypes. The children, the kids, you guys, etc are also perfectly valid ways to refer to her sons, and it’s not hard to do.

I believe this is the exact reason why I was told not to say it when I was training him be a teacher.

If they’re teenagers it can also sound childish and it’s patronising/makes them act less mature.

burgledinParis · 08/04/2023 10:23

Just go with "oi snowflakes" next time.

DannyZukosSmile · 08/04/2023 10:24

burgledinParis · 08/04/2023 10:23

Just go with "oi snowflakes" next time.

But the boys aren't snowflakes, are they? It's their mother.

So I would go with... 'oi ... sons of snowflake.' Grin

DannyZukosSmile · 08/04/2023 10:26

ConstanceOcean · 08/04/2023 10:20

I believe this is the exact reason why I was told not to say it when I was training him be a teacher.

If they’re teenagers it can also sound childish and it’s patronising/makes them act less mature.

Show quote history

My cousin's 5 sons (in their 20s and early 30s) get called 'the lads' by most people. They have NEVER been offended. Neither has my cousin or her husband, or my aunt and uncle (the lads grandparents.) Utterly farcical and pathetic what 'offends' people these days. 'Snowflakes' really is a very apt term for some.

JulieHoney · 08/04/2023 10:26

Emotionalsupportviper · 08/04/2023 10:19

It only entrenches stereotypes because we tell our children that the boys shouldn't play with dolls and the girls need to sit quietly and have a teddy tea party.

It isn't acknowledging sex which is the problem - it's having "expectations".

Show quote history

Well yes, obviously, but we can’t change society as a whole nearly as easily as we can tweak our language a tiny bit.

Did you see that tv series where they “did away with gender” in a primary school? The teachers hadn’t realised how differently they treated boys and girls along with the language they used. Once they used the same words with everyone, the behaviour changed. It was fascinating.

And as @ConstanceOcean confirms, trainee teachers are told to use non-gendered language.

It doesn’t have to be a big deal.

IseePatterns · 08/04/2023 10:27

Hmm what's that popular saying about offence on mn: Offence is not given, it's taken.

Someone made a very quick request and it seems you, OP, have taken some kind of offence to it and attached all kinds of meanings to it.

Can you not call then the boys?
Oh, why?
She would have given you reasons then you'd know for sure.

Otherwise, you could say the "children". She hasn't said not to call them that, has she?

But in typical mumsnet fashion, you say 'of course' and then make a song and dance about it with your husband and other mumsbetters behind her back.

Hopefully she's reading this and sees what you're really thinking.

billy1966 · 08/04/2023 10:29

She's a really rude twat and I would not contact her again.

I certainly wouldn't tolerate such rudeness from a friend, much less in my own home.

She was extremely rude and needs to take herself off and find other people to visit that will accept being spoken to like that.

No good that you accepted her rudeness either.

Var57 · 08/04/2023 10:33

Did you notice how she referred to your children throughout the day? That might give you a clue.

SoupDragon · 08/04/2023 10:40

IseePatterns · 08/04/2023 10:27

Hmm what's that popular saying about offence on mn: Offence is not given, it's taken.

Someone made a very quick request and it seems you, OP, have taken some kind of offence to it and attached all kinds of meanings to it.

Can you not call then the boys?
Oh, why?
She would have given you reasons then you'd know for sure.

Otherwise, you could say the "children". She hasn't said not to call them that, has she?

But in typical mumsnet fashion, you say 'of course' and then make a song and dance about it with your husband and other mumsbetters behind her back.

Hopefully she's reading this and sees what you're really thinking.

I agree with this. We don't actually know how she asked or exactly what she said.

saraclara · 08/04/2023 10:41

Emotionalsupportviper · 08/04/2023 10:19

It only entrenches stereotypes because we tell our children that the boys shouldn't play with dolls and the girls need to sit quietly and have a teddy tea party.

It isn't acknowledging sex which is the problem - it's having "expectations".

Show quote history

Exactly.

My late husband affectionately calling our daughters "my girls" didn't stop my eldest being a high level footballer (when women's football was far less popular) for instance. How we raised them was what mattered

MuckyPlucky · 08/04/2023 10:47

Friend is a dick.

I’d follow her request to the letter in future & send ludicrous messages saying:

“Hi Friend. Would you, Bob, Tom, Fred and Simon like to pop round later? I thought Bob, Fred, Tom & Simon might like to play in the garden with James, Edward and William. Let me know how you’re fixed!

Highdaysandholidays1 · 08/04/2023 10:47

Some people find using 'guys' for a mixed group offensive. If that's her objection to boys, then she will object to guys (if there's a gender issue in the group).

She made you feel uncomfortable in your own home, I just can't be arsed with that for whatever reason, it's like when I met with someone in the playcentre and they asked my children not to eat their picnic crisps or have an ice-cream as they weren't allowed them, and we all had to sit there in embarrassed silence whilst they munched on their wholemeal sandwiches (fine, but don't police us!) Just too hard work meeting up with people who are going to set rules on what you can say, what you can eat, during playdates.

I would feel fine if they had a quiet word at a different time because Barney wanted to be known as Belinda, indeed I have relatives who have changed names and that's no issue for me. She could have let you know in advance if there were issues, otherwise it's creating social tension- for what?

Viviennemary · 08/04/2023 10:48

I find it mildly irritating when folk constantly refer to children as the boys/the girls all the time. But I don't say anything. But I still think your friend was out of order having a go at you about this especially when you were kind enough to invite them for lunch.,