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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Friend takes offence

268 replies

Booboojump · 08/04/2023 02:49

So one of my friends took major offence to my wording…. She called me out on it and now I’m embarrassed

I invited my friend around this past week with her children via text.

“Would you and the boys like to come over for some lunch and a play in the garden tomorrow, the weather is looking much better”

She has 4 boys, 3 being the same ages as mine. All friendly with each other and get along great

As she came in I used called her children “the boys” would “you boys” like a drink…
she sat down and asked me not to call them “the boys”. I replied a rather embarrassed yeah of course… silence for a few mins then I had start the convo up as it was awkward as hell.

Im terms of gender, im as liberal as they come (sister is a in a same gender relationship and identities as masc) As far as I’m aware all the children identify as the gender they were born as and are typical boys boys.

I would normally message people with multiple children “the girls/boys/children depending of the children's genders rather than writing a full Tom, Dick, Harry and Bob!

I feel awkward now there is tension between us. like I need to watch myself what I say as not to offend!

OP posts:

Highdaysandholidays1 · 08/04/2023 10:49

I call my two 'the girls' as in 'come on girls'. We are a fully signed-up feminist household, we don't think girls is a dirty word for starters!

Flowerly · 08/04/2023 10:51

JulieHoney · 08/04/2023 10:16

There’s a body of evidence that using gendered language entrenches stereotypes. The children, the kids, you guys, etc are also perfectly valid ways to refer to her sons, and it’s not hard to do.

So 'guys' isn't gendered language?! 😂

ToWhitToWhoo · 08/04/2023 10:52

determinedtomakethiswork · 08/04/2023 10:00

How does she think children are referred to in school?

At my all-girls school in the 70s, we were frequently addressed as '|You people'!

Flowerly · 08/04/2023 10:52

EmpressaurusOfCats · 08/04/2023 10:12

Well, the whole ‘gender’ thing is essentially sexist bollocks IMO but it’s up to her. See if she reacts the same to ‘you kids.’

It is 100% sexism on stilts.

ArrrMeHearties · 08/04/2023 10:55

Wtf is the issue in saying the boys? Were you to individually call her boys names? 🤔

honeylulu · 08/04/2023 10:55

Did you ask her what she wants them collectively referred to as? I have a boy and a girl and call them "the kids" or " you guys" but some people hate both those. For reference I worked in summer camps in the US where "guys" was used gender neutrally and it has stuck.

Flowerly · 08/04/2023 10:55

WilsonMilson · 08/04/2023 10:00

The older I get, the less tolerant of BS I am, so I’d have just asked her “so, what do you want me to call them then?”

Does she want her brood to be individually name checked each time you talk about them as a collective? Ridiculous.
Does she want them to be called girls? Equally absurd.

This.

saraclara · 08/04/2023 10:56

Highdaysandholidays1 · 08/04/2023 10:49

I call my two 'the girls' as in 'come on girls'. We are a fully signed-up feminist household, we don't think girls is a dirty word for starters!

Exactly. If people treated mine differently because they were girls, I'd be annoyed. But being referred to as girls is no insult.

I'd be interested in knowing why the friend doesn't want her kids to be called "the boys" but like you, OP, I'd be shocked into silence, and asking "why?"'would feel awkward.

Flowerly · 08/04/2023 10:58

honeylulu · 08/04/2023 10:55

Guys is NOT 'gender neutral'. Women and girls get lumped in and called this but it is no more gender neutral than saying to a mixed sex group 'come on girls'. But no one would ever do that would they?

Emotionalsupportviper · 08/04/2023 10:59

JulieHoney · 08/04/2023 10:26

Well yes, obviously, but we can’t change society as a whole nearly as easily as we can tweak our language a tiny bit.

Did you see that tv series where they “did away with gender” in a primary school? The teachers hadn’t realised how differently they treated boys and girls along with the language they used. Once they used the same words with everyone, the behaviour changed. It was fascinating.

And as @ConstanceOcean confirms, trainee teachers are told to use non-gendered language.

It doesn’t have to be a big deal.

Show quote history

Well, perhaps in primary schools if they encouraged children of both sexes to consider all toys and all school activities as being appropriate whether they were male or female, rather than bringing in "experts" to tell them there are 73 genders and they can change sex if they want to, that will have just as good an effect.

It will certainly have a better effect than telling children lies about their biology.

This would involve no more effort than using "gender neutral" language, and definitely no more cerebral convolution than pretending Jack is now Jacquie, and would acknowledge them as worthy individuals while acknowledging that there are physical sex differences.

In fact, ideally they would do both - use gender-neutral language AND acknowledge physical sex but not stereotype the children because of it.

MrsDoylesDoily · 08/04/2023 11:05

I voted YABU but purely on the basis that this is a ridiculous thread.

"Would you mind not calling them the boys?"

"Yeah course".

And literally no other conversation around that?

🙄

Spanielsarepainless · 08/04/2023 11:06

I had a lovely uncle who always greeted my sister and me with "Hello, girls". This went on well into our thirties.

Shelby2010 · 08/04/2023 11:08

It’s interesting that the lack of reason given by the friend is splitting the thread into 3 groups:

Group1 assumes she meant ‘my children may want to identify as something other than boys’ and she is therefore annoyingly woke.

Group2 assumes she meant ‘I’m doing my bit to raise my children not to be sexist and that they don’t get treated differently because of their sex’. Good point, badly made.

Group3 are confused by the debate because they refer to their friends as ‘the girls’ without anyone being offended so don’t really understand the question.

ConstanceOcean · 08/04/2023 11:08

IseePatterns · 08/04/2023 10:27

Hmm what's that popular saying about offence on mn: Offence is not given, it's taken.

Someone made a very quick request and it seems you, OP, have taken some kind of offence to it and attached all kinds of meanings to it.

Can you not call then the boys?
Oh, why?
She would have given you reasons then you'd know for sure.

Otherwise, you could say the "children". She hasn't said not to call them that, has she?

But in typical mumsnet fashion, you say 'of course' and then make a song and dance about it with your husband and other mumsbetters behind her back.

Hopefully she's reading this and sees what you're really thinking.

I agree.

She asked OP not to do something and now OP (and the majority of posters) have taken offence, yet are moaning about this women being offended.

Its ironic those that are talking about snowflakes and people being quick to offend are the ones that are the most offended.

Someone I know with triplets asked the class teacher to call them by their names instead of the triplets as they want their own identities and are struggling with it.
The teacher immediately apologised and said he was just being lazy and that hes only done it a handful of times when doing head counts but he’ll not do it again and I don’t think ever did.
He didn’t act offended or say they were snowflakes.

Thelnebriati · 08/04/2023 11:11

If she doesn't want you to call her kids 'the boys' she should have told you how to refer to them instead.

Climbles · 08/04/2023 11:22

If she’d raised it in general conversation and said something like ‘I know I’m being a bit precious but it’s started to irritate me how the boys get lumped together all the time. I’m making an effort to not call them the boys and asking others to do the same.’ I’d roll my eyes but try to go along with it. The fact that she announced it in a way that seems like she was telling you off would really annoy me.

Shodan · 08/04/2023 11:26

I can't believe how many people are advocating the use of 'kids'. Kids are baby goats! How offensive. 😱

Personally I refer to other people's children as offspring or progeny. Or, if feeling fancy- The Fruit Of Your Loins/Heirs to the Smith (other names are available) Estates.

Hankunamatata · 08/04/2023 11:28

I refer to my boys as 'the boys' all the time.
Boys dinner
Boys come get a drink
Boys come and help me with x,y z
She is a bit of an arse raising it the way she did. She could have easily said in convo 'hey op could you call them the kids or something from now on'

VWHoliday · 08/04/2023 11:31

saraclara · 08/04/2023 10:04

I imagine that if you'd been one sister and two brothers, it would have been 'Hannah and the boys' though. I don't think there's anything intrinsically sexist in it.

Show quote history

That's what I thought.

ScribblingPixie · 08/04/2023 11:32

Some people will always be only too pleased to use current ideologies/politics to make other people feel they've done something wrong. It's her, not you. I'd be wary of her.

Ineedtoloseweightnow · 08/04/2023 11:36

I wonder more rather than a gender thing it’s giving each child their place as they are their own individual person. I have used the term too with friend who have a whole troop of boys but use individual names to their face. I also have a friend with twins and I always use their names as I feel it can’t be nice to be lumped together as ‘the twins’ your whole life. I tend to gauge it by what terms the parent uses.

mnisannoyingAF · 08/04/2023 11:38

Shodan · 08/04/2023 11:26

I can't believe how many people are advocating the use of 'kids'. Kids are baby goats! How offensive. 😱

Personally I refer to other people's children as offspring or progeny. Or, if feeling fancy- The Fruit Of Your Loins/Heirs to the Smith (other names are available) Estates.

Kids is also a term widely used for children, as you know

VWHoliday · 08/04/2023 11:38

So there were 7 boys at the house. There is no way I would refer to them individually everytime I spoke to them as a group.

Shodan · 08/04/2023 11:45

Kids is also a term widely used for children, as you know

Do I know? How presumptuous of you. You should be more careful about telling people what they know, you know.

SoupDragon · 08/04/2023 11:52

mnisannoyingAF · 08/04/2023 11:38

Kids is also a term widely used for children, as you know

Show quote history

Have people lost the ability to spot when something is a joke?

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