for giving DW an ultimatum to cut out her male friend or face separation?

[Froaway2023]

I am 43, DW is 39. We have been dating for six years and married for three and a half. She is white, I am a Egyptian Christian (will be relevant later). She does not know what MN is so, I can be frank with details.

Our issue is her male friend of 5+years. Said friend clearly has designs on my partner. In conversation he has (playfully ) confessed to a relaxed and enlightened attitude towards such adulterous relations, albeit in a more abstract context. He is also just a bit too familiar with my wife for my liking, i.e. massaging her shoulder in my presence to which she acquiesced. In the last few months, they have been spending time together i.e. dinner parties, cinema (they share interest in certain things), and other events I cannot make owing to my commitments at work and cleaning up after my alcoholic sister's mess (she has three kids I practically co-parent, they live a mile away, I am there every three days for about an hour). I began to be really bothered when, one night, whilst I was abroad for business, she locked herself out of the house and informed me that she would spend the evening at his. I objected, offering to book a hotel room instead. When she refused, I went ahead and paid, presenting her with a fait accompli. Guess what? She says oh well! Goes to his. When I remonstrated with her I was told this was not the Middle East. She was not my property. Admittedly she apologised for this and bought me gift.

Things came to ahead when on talking with said friend at a dinner party he made mention of a disease I had in early 2000s. I was astonished and hurt by the revelation that she freely shared what was for me a big burden I carried on from a dark time in my life.

This month, I booked a week off from work to recuperate. When she came home, I sat her down and gave her an ultimatum. My terms? To cut off said friend forever, or it was toast. I was off. I even showed her (admittedly fake) housing arrangements I had made should she refuse. Cue a breakdown. Cue tears. Cue apologies. She said has been her friend for 5 years and has been there for her in desperate times. She says she can have a talk with him but by no means will she cut him off.

Thoughts?

He says the friend and his wife have known one another ‘5+ years’. Which could mean anything.

sounds controlling. let her have him and when you move on drop the control act.

Race has no part in my response:

I voted yabu.

You've handled this really badly.

Fine to say her friend had crossed boundaries in giving her a quick shoulder massage, but you're assuming your wife will cheat simply because he has said he's relaxed about adultery.

That's a pretty sexist way of looking at things. With the attitude you've displayed, and the controlling tendencies you're showing (booking a hotel is to attempt to take the choice away from her), I can completely understand why your wife has reacted the way she has and in her shoes I'd have probably reacted the same.

(Before you jump on me, I've never so much as looked at another man when I've been in a relationship, while having close male friends).

If this bloke does try anything then your wife is perfectly capable of shutting him down.

Your handling of this whole matter has been to disregard a long standing friendship, behave in a controlling and coercive manner and distrust your wife for no other reason than you dislike her friend.

I would say exactly the same if the gender were reversed, too.

However, having said that, I appreciate and understand that you feel this man behaves inappropriately towards your wife and you're entitled to feel that a stronger boundary needs to be in place.

If you'd spoken to your wife as an equal about this, respecting her own autonomy and judgement you would probably have found she'd have been much more empathetic and been happier to put distance between herself and her friend for the sake of your relationship. Instead, you've behaved as she has no control and is guilty by association. You haven't shown her any trust whatsoever.

Regardless of the motivation, your behavior has been coercive and so you have forced her not to choose between you and him, but to choose between your control and her independence. Of course she's asserting that.

Regarding race, if you don't want posters to refer to it then don't mention it in the first place. You said it was relevant but failed to explain exactly how. Personally, I don't think it is from what youve said. Ultimately, you're uncomfortable with a friendship she has and would like her to put distance between them - if you'd approached it differently instead of "laying down the law" each time, the outcome would have been very different, I'm sure.

You said your Christian, which would lead posters to infer a rigid morality and social codes, yet in later posts say you attend church for high holidays only...Like most people in the UK who are nominally 'Christian' then, so how is it relevant?

You both need to examine your behaviours, here.

Read further down the post.

Only read your comments OP and totally agree. Your wife's behaviour is appalling and totally disrespectful and you were quite right to give an ultimatum.

I guess by your responses, the MNet brigade are out in force claiming 'controlling and abusive behaviour' all BECAUSE YOU ARE A MAN POSTING. If it were a woman of course the stock response is to lawyer up and contact woman's Aid. Totally double standards and one of the very reasons I'm almost done with this forum, where it seems males are always to blame, yet women, (particularly OW) are merely poor innocent parties to behave and trample on others in any way they see fit....unfortunately as your wife is doing to you. Are you sure she's not a member of MN?

I can sense your frustration in your post but by your wife's response, sadly her priorities are anywhere else but on you and the marriage so I wouldn't waste another minute on her. You can't and shouldn't be trying to control her. You can only control your response to her shitty behaviour. I'd also suggest doing the 360°, grey rock approach for your own sanity.

You say very little about your finances and work situation, but I'd start getting your ducks in a row, relevant paperwork together and seek the services of a good divorce lawyer to protect your assets.

I'd suggest seeking support from these organisations:
https://mensadviceline.org.uk/
https://www.mensaid.co.uk/
https://www.mankind.org.uk/

Good luck OP and all the best.

He’s done nothing inappropriate from the sounds of it. He’s just a friend who happens to be male. YABU

You're getting a very hard time because you've said you're a man. If you said you were a woman and had posted the exact same thing, everyone would be saying LTB and that YANBU.

I don't think the fake documents were really a good idea but otherwise you've done nothing wrong. She's showing absolutely zero respect for your relationship. YANBU.

You are right. When does want to f her, I should buy the condoms. After all, we cannot have such Middle Eastern customs as objecting to being cucked in front of ones own eyes

I’ve been in a controlling coercive relationship with a man and I assumed you would be that type before reading your post but imo your wife doesn’t respect you or your marriage. You don’t have a problem with all male friends (I hope) it’s just that particular one because of what makes you uncomfortable. Which would make anyone uncomfortable. Plenty of threads posted by women and we tell them to LTB. If my husband was behaving like your wife I would not put up with that at all. No bloody way and also, how would your wife feel if you were doing the same? There should never be double standards in a relationship. I also think the comment about not being in the Middle East was below the belt, it’s like she has certain hidden prejudices that I think some posters on here are showing too hence giving you a hard time and nit picking. Unless you are a controlling man and your wife is now ‘rebelling’ as she’s sick of being told what to do I think she is in the wrong but you can’t force her to stop, just consider it the end of the relationship or try marriage counselling. If she’s not happy willing to work through it I’d cut your losses and move on. You’re too different.

The double standards on here make me sick.

OP, I have very good male friends. However, I'm respectful to a partner I may have. I don't 'drop' my friends but I recognise how my relationships might look to an outsider.

That aside, it also doesn't feel like you distrust your partner, just her friend.

Something to talk about

It is a tough time. I have no kids. Emotionally I am finished (no self harm, etc nothing weird like) but I have packed everything and am looking to move my business elsewhere. I am considering getting my sister away from her kids (into some temp recovery facility) and taking over rearing her younger ones.

But Thanks for being understanding. Gaslighting men is a real problem on this forum. Do i have to find his p in my wife for me to have a case

I dropped my female friends so expected reciprocity. She was subtly encouraging this i.e limiting dinner party slots to ensure X did not come. Hence why this was a shcok. And the disease thing ended it

I'm sorry, OP.
I don't think you are in the wrong. I am white, husband is from a different race but this is not about that. Your wife treats you with disrespect. I would not stay at another man's home alone. Or go for cosy meets. Sends wrong message.

If you already know this, then why ask here when there are 100s of male focused forums to post on?

“And this is a friend. Not a “fuck buddy”. You clearly have a wild imagination and jealousy issues.”

Yep, just a friend, like the old Biz Markie song.

If a woman posted this about her husband she'd be told he was a cheat. Replies to you are mostly biased because you are a man. Give her the ultimatum if you want to. Her behaviour is unacceptable. If she chooses her friend, then let her go. Don't be a fool for someone who assumes she can have her cake and eat it.

I have quite a lot of male friends and yes, I have kipped at their places on occasion. I am capable of being platonic friends with a bloke whether he's interested in me or not. I am married, have been for 25+ years. DH trusts me, quite rightly. I would never be unfaithful.

Your issue is trust. You need to think hard about why you don't trust your dw and whether that's fair. It may a problem stemming from you or it might be stemming from your wife, but you need to look hard and get it sorted.

I know you're on the way out, but it's perhaps not quite too late for reconciliation?

YANBU. Yes sorry OP, if you were a woman, or possibly a white man, this thread would have gone very differently.

Man or a Women, no difference here.
In a nutshell the OPs partner is having an emotional affair.
Also irrelevant point on fake or no fake housing arrangements. The point is that OP is desperate and feel hurt by their partners lack of sensitivity generally.
OP - few questions before separating to consider:
Did you tell your partner how you feel about the 'friend'?
Did you specifically address touching, sleep over and too much time together?
Did you set your expectations clearly? Were they dismissed?
Do you love your partner? How much are you willing to fight for this relationship?
Is there a will and a way to see a marriage counselor?
Separating may be inevitable if the partner don't come to the table addressing seriously and with respect how you feel.
There will need to be some adjustments in the current interactions between partner and friend which must work for you and partner.
If the choice is no compromise from the partner side then it confirms what you already suspect that is happening.
Sorry you are going through this OP. It's tough and hurtful. My sympathy is with you.

Weird isn’t it? Never really worth posting as a bloke on here.

It doesn't really matter what a bunch of randoms on here think. YOU are not happy with it, you have told your wife this and she has not taken that on board. Its your relationship and she has clearly crossed your red line.

Would I be happy if my husband behaved like your wife has? Absolutely not! I would be more annoyed and upset that my point of view was being disregarded.

That being said, you cannot control or force people to do what you want them to, either. All you can do is say "I want better than this for myself" and leave.

Yep. Also a British woman in my 30s and I agree with this.

OP is not BU at all.

Yep.

Op mentioned his cultural and national heritage because it made sense of the comment his wife flung at him when he wanted her to change what she was doing.

Op, I'm sorry your getting some biased answers, but your wife does seem to be having an emotional affair at least and I would be expressing all the same concerns you are.

Why shouldn't op come to Mumsnet despite there being mens forums available (as a scornful pp said), he's in distress and is trying to sense check it against a cohort of people who might share a similar profile to his wife in terms of their world view/life experience.

It’s normal to have opposite sex friends but this sounds like (at least) an emotional affair.(also 30s female Brit and I’ve got experience of living in the Middle East - some things are different, some are sadly the same everywhere)

I’d cut ties as you’re not compatible and she’s cheating on you. Setting ultimatums or offering a fait accompli rarely works, people are going to do what they want to do. It sounds as though she has made her choice.

your sis is lucky to have your support with her kids. Good luck.