for giving DW an ultimatum to cut out her male friend or face separation?

[Froaway2023]

I am 43, DW is 39. We have been dating for six years and married for three and a half. She is white, I am a Egyptian Christian (will be relevant later). She does not know what MN is so, I can be frank with details.

Our issue is her male friend of 5+years. Said friend clearly has designs on my partner. In conversation he has (playfully ) confessed to a relaxed and enlightened attitude towards such adulterous relations, albeit in a more abstract context. He is also just a bit too familiar with my wife for my liking, i.e. massaging her shoulder in my presence to which she acquiesced. In the last few months, they have been spending time together i.e. dinner parties, cinema (they share interest in certain things), and other events I cannot make owing to my commitments at work and cleaning up after my alcoholic sister's mess (she has three kids I practically co-parent, they live a mile away, I am there every three days for about an hour). I began to be really bothered when, one night, whilst I was abroad for business, she locked herself out of the house and informed me that she would spend the evening at his. I objected, offering to book a hotel room instead. When she refused, I went ahead and paid, presenting her with a fait accompli. Guess what? She says oh well! Goes to his. When I remonstrated with her I was told this was not the Middle East. She was not my property. Admittedly she apologised for this and bought me gift.

Things came to ahead when on talking with said friend at a dinner party he made mention of a disease I had in early 2000s. I was astonished and hurt by the revelation that she freely shared what was for me a big burden I carried on from a dark time in my life.

This month, I booked a week off from work to recuperate. When she came home, I sat her down and gave her an ultimatum. My terms? To cut off said friend forever, or it was toast. I was off. I even showed her (admittedly fake) housing arrangements I had made should she refuse. Cue a breakdown. Cue tears. Cue apologies. She said has been her friend for 5 years and has been there for her in desperate times. She says she can have a talk with him but by no means will she cut him off.

Thoughts?

Oh just break up. You'll both be happier.

What disease was it? Was it something you keep strictly private or something you've talked about before? My DH had malaria 20 years ago and I wouldn't think anything of telling someone that.

Also if you're going to be fastidious about your own privacy maybe don't post details about your dysfunctional marriage on a public forum prefaced with 'it's fine she doesn't read Mumsnet' implying she wouldn't be happy with your choice to do so.

Booking to hotel room and presenting her with a 'fair accompli' when you knew it was against her wishes makes you sound like a controlling prick. As do ultimatums and fake housing documents.

Stop messing about and move out. You don't trust her. It's done.

Op you shouldn't be lying to your wife or giving her ultimatums BUT she isn't being reasonable here either, especially if she has previously asked you to cut a friend out of your life for similar reasons. Honestly you don't sound like either of you truly has happiness in this marriage. Consider couples counselling or separation but do not continue to treat each other with such little courtesy, love or respect.

there are a million reasons for not answering the phone, and who even has a landline these days anyway? And how many people are monitoring where their neighbours sleep on a daily basis and reporting it to their spouses? And if she really did need to justify being out of the house; why not just say she was going to a hotel or staying somewhere else? Honestly if she is having an affair with this man she’s being incredibly obvious and dumb about it. Every time she wants a shag is she going to pretend she locked herself out again? Don’t be daft.

You really don't think the replies would be different? So if a woman posted that a female friend of her husband had become too close to him
for her comfort, her husband had discussed his wife's medical issues with this friend and this friend had been behaving inappropriately
towards her husband even in your presence, you think the replies would be the same? 😂😂

Also, why didn't she just call in a locksmith. Just told DH this story and he pointed out that's what either of us would do.

Absolutely spot on. Welcome to Mumsnet!

She shouldn't have let her friend massage her, that's weird. However, if I was her friend then I would be telling her to put you straight in the bin. You're a manipulative bully. I hope there are no children in the picture.

At this point, does it really matter whether YABU? You gave her an ultimatum. She chose not to comply. The relationship is over.

It seems the two of you aren't compatible. Whether or not she was cheating on you or was heading down that path, she thinks it's acceptable for her to have a male friend who is openly willing to sleep with someone else's partner, whereas you don't think it's okay for her to be friendly with such a person. You both feel strongly enough to end the relationship over it.

To be fair, she'd be out if I was her husband so no loss there

Also, why didn't she just call in a locksmith. Just told DH this story and he pointed out that's what either of us would do.

Exactly.

Sorry, but you're being incredibly naive if you think she actually locked herself out and had to stay with Mr Massage. She just came out with the first nonsense she could think of as soon as her husband was away and couldn't physically catch her out.

Obvious and dumb? No. Doesn't really care about her husband so doesn't bother to hide it that much? Yes.

Hahaha. Imagine if this was a reverse and a dw was in here saying her dh had a female friend whom massaged him and he stayed over at her house. I doubt your response would be the same.

100% correct.

I know this is a typo but I just laughed my head off.

This is how it reads to me too.

She is being very unreasonable, but you trying to manipulate her isn't ok. If my husband booked a hotel for me like that it would immediately make me want to go stay with my friend because I'm not a child, but I also wouldn't have been acting that way in the first place. There is toxic behaviour on both sides, your DW is arguably worse, but the relationship is not healthy either way. I can see three options, go to marriage counselling,
seperate now, and the easy one is for you both to continue behaving the same and blaming each other while things get worse and worse and you get more and more harmed, and end up hating each other until someone eventual cracks and finishes the marriage.

I think the OP would have a lot more support if he hadn't gone in all guns blazing with ultimatums and manipulative behaviour. He lost the moral argument when he behaved this way.

He should have shared his concerns like an adult and asked for some reasonable boundaries. If she then continued to behave in a similar way, knowing OP's feelings, then she would be entirely unreasonable.

Neither side is 100% reasonable. However, no one should give in to an ultimatum. The marriage will never recover from the resentment either side.

The problem here is that you and your wife are disconnected. You have told her that her friendship seems inappropriate and it makes you uncomfortable, but she spent the night at his house anyway. On the other hand you are using emotional blackmail and fake housing documents, that is controlling and childish, when really you should be seeking to rediscover the connection and love that originally led you to marry, not trying to manipulate her.

I suggest you both attend marriage counselling to discover - together - whether you both want to save this marriage or prefer it to end.

To oversimplify:

• She thinks she can do whatever she wants with whoever she wants without hurting you, and that isn’t true.
• You think she should do what you tell her to do, and that isn’t true either.

You both need to agree together what the expectations in this marriage are so that you can both be happy.

It sounds like your marriage is over.

She is either about to or having some type of affair.

You're being a bit controlling plus neglecting your wife because of your messed up sister.

Just see a solicitor soon and file for a divorce. I don't see this improving.

You sound awful. Quite misogynistic. Get over it.

Yes! Exactly! Because we must allow our spouses to have inappropriate relationships with people, to have them massage each other right in front of us and stay at each others houses even when we’ve said it makes us uncomfortable.

🙄

You have a wife problem.

It is absolutely fine for her to have a close male friendship.

What is not fine is how you’ve expressed your concerns and she is still carrying on being inappropriate.

It is of course not appropriate that he gives her back rubs and she spends the night as his.
If this was you spending the night at a woman’s house against your wife’s wishes all the posters would be telling her you’re a cheat.

I think an ultimatum was your only choice but don’t be surprised if she chooses this friend and then acts like you’re the unreasonable one.

Your discomfort with this relationship is fair and reasonable. They are blurring boundaries and being disrespectful to you and the relationship you share with her.
The fact that she won't let it go despite your reasonable concerns suggests their connection is more important than her wish to reassure you and personally I think this is a huge issue.
You could look up livingwithlimerance.com I think it might answer a lot of your questions. The fire can be fuelled by the 'can't have you' element.

The friend has been in her life far longer than you, and will outlast you by the sound of things.

I think you could possibly have handled things better.

With the shoulder massage, why didn't you just say something when it was happening? Just "Excuse me DW, let me do that for you", and take over from him, then once you were alone with DW explain to her that you were uncomfortable with the physical intimacy of her friend massaging her and you would prefer that this didn't happen again. That would have been entirely reasonable request from anyone's partner.

With regard to the friend speaking about adultery and thinking it's acceptable, have you never, when he's talked about it, said something like "Well, DW and I certainly don't feel that cheating in a marriage is defensible, isn't that right, DW?" Have you spoken to your DW privately about your concerns that he is trying to entice her into an affair? Has your DW ever given you any indication that she might cheat (either with this friend or with anyone else?), do you trust her?

I suspect that if you had made your feelings on the massage and adultery clear at the time, and your DW had understood and accepted your point of view, it would have been unlikely that she would have decided to sleep at her friend's house when she was locked out, as she would have known it would hurt you. If she would have gone ahead with a full understanding of your discomfort, then I totally accept that her behaviour in this instance we unacceptable.

Your DW announcing your history of a disease to dinner party guests is inexcusable in my eyes, I completely understand why you'd be upset by this.

However, I think that issuing an ultimatum to your DW over her friendship is a dangerous game. The faking of documents to show her you're already making plans to move on feels very calculated and a bit coercive. I think the better way to handle this is to be completely transparent about your feelings here - admit that he makes you jealous, you are worried that he will rip apart your marriage. Explain to your DW truthfully how all of these instances have added up to make you feel very insecure about her spending time alone with him.

You need to be able to trust one another in a marriage, and that means that if she wants to remain friends with someone who makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps the three of you need sit down together and calmly talk about the situation. Remember that this man can't force your wife to commit adultery, it would be up to her to choose to do so, so it's up to you to decide whether you trust her to remain faithful, no matter who she chooses to be friends with. The problem is that issuing an ultimatum about your DW's friendships will come across as controlling, and if she acquiesces this time, she'll wonder if you're going to do it again.

In your shoes, I'd retract the ultimatum, apologise for issuing it, explain how upset/jealous etc. you feel and exactly why, then work together to see what you can do as a couple to help mitigate these feelings, without you feeling you need to control who your DW is friends with.

Sorry - that was long! Also, I don't think anyone was being racist, I think the skin colour of each of the people in your OP is only significant to you - it certainly hasn't affected how I have responded.

In the first post he says they’ve been dating 6 years and she’s known the friend 5…

You don't mention children together.

If you don't have any, quite honestly; I would get rid of her.

I'm sure you can find a more appropriate acting, loyal, trustworthy woman to make the mother of your kids.

If you do have kids .... I'd be more inclined to try to work it out but there are still a lot of issues there.