for giving DW an ultimatum to cut out her male friend or face separation?

[Froaway2023]

I am 43, DW is 39. We have been dating for six years and married for three and a half. She is white, I am a Egyptian Christian (will be relevant later). She does not know what MN is so, I can be frank with details.

Our issue is her male friend of 5+years. Said friend clearly has designs on my partner. In conversation he has (playfully ) confessed to a relaxed and enlightened attitude towards such adulterous relations, albeit in a more abstract context. He is also just a bit too familiar with my wife for my liking, i.e. massaging her shoulder in my presence to which she acquiesced. In the last few months, they have been spending time together i.e. dinner parties, cinema (they share interest in certain things), and other events I cannot make owing to my commitments at work and cleaning up after my alcoholic sister's mess (she has three kids I practically co-parent, they live a mile away, I am there every three days for about an hour). I began to be really bothered when, one night, whilst I was abroad for business, she locked herself out of the house and informed me that she would spend the evening at his. I objected, offering to book a hotel room instead. When she refused, I went ahead and paid, presenting her with a fait accompli. Guess what? She says oh well! Goes to his. When I remonstrated with her I was told this was not the Middle East. She was not my property. Admittedly she apologised for this and bought me gift.

Things came to ahead when on talking with said friend at a dinner party he made mention of a disease I had in early 2000s. I was astonished and hurt by the revelation that she freely shared what was for me a big burden I carried on from a dark time in my life.

This month, I booked a week off from work to recuperate. When she came home, I sat her down and gave her an ultimatum. My terms? To cut off said friend forever, or it was toast. I was off. I even showed her (admittedly fake) housing arrangements I had made should she refuse. Cue a breakdown. Cue tears. Cue apologies. She said has been her friend for 5 years and has been there for her in desperate times. She says she can have a talk with him but by no means will she cut him off.

Thoughts?

As other PPs have said, if you'd been a wife and had posted exactly the same thing about your husband then you would have received some very different replies. The utter hypocrisy on MN is sickening sometimes.

Best of luck, OP.

Indeed, there's absolutely nothing wrong with accidentally locking yourself out of your house when your husband is conveniently out of the country, so you can go and sleep in the bed house of the man who has stated an adulterous relationship with you would be great, and you fawn about letting him massage you in front of your husband.

I mean, if you told your husband you were off to stay at your fuck buddies, while he was out of the country, and he said "no please stay at a hotel, I'll pay for it" then of course the husband is the prick in the situation, for going against your determination to shag behind his back.

Don't waste your time on fake housing options and stuff. Just leave. You're not happy. And the ultimatum is also a waste of time.

I don’t think they would be different. They are both behaving badly. The OP is controlling, the OP’s wife is disrespectful. They are clearly unhappy and need to call it a day. Most people have said this, and would also say this if the sexes were reversed.

She likes her friend more than you and she will not 'give him up' because you demand it. I don't think she is having a physical affair with him but boundaries have been crossed. You say you think he has designs on her but I bet he wouldn't want her with children in tow.
Staying at his house sounds odd however if she was with him at his when she rang you I can I understsnd her staying. I'd need to hear the whole conversation but if she'd said No I'm fine, I'm with Friend and you said Well you had better not be, I'd be annoyed and would not 'obey' you.
Ultimately you need to work on your marriage. Why is she do close to this man? This isn't an old college/family friend from before marriage is it? Whatever he is, blackmail won't work.
Do you love her?

this is bonkers. If she was going behind his back- he was out of town for gods sake- why would she even need to invent a story about locking herself out and informing him in advance where she was sleeping. Totally nonsensical.

And this is a friend. Not a “fuck buddy”. You clearly have a wild imagination and jealousy issues.

YABU for giving her an ultimatum.
Just end it if you are not happy, no ultimatum is needed or justified.
Ultimatums are at root about trying to control someone - it is not dignified of you to put yourself in this position.
Just end it.

I can’t believe how different the responses to you are compared to what they would be if this was a woman posting about her DH having her shoulder massaged, staying over in his female friends house, telling her very personal info etc…

I often disagree on threads when posters say 'Responses would be totally different if the OP were a woman posting about her husband', but in this case it's true. You are not being unreasonable, OP. Your wife is absolutely taking the piss.

No idea why you think that . I’ve read all of them.

So why do you think op is in the wrong here?

Op should accept his wife disrespecting him and sharing his private information and having a frankly weird and inappropriate friendship, and that's being mild.

It's an emotional affair. Let me guess, if they share a bed and sleep together, she's also not OP's property and it's his fault. He should accept it and not be so controlling.

Do some people just live drama and winding the op up since this is all anon?

A lot of weird answers on this thread. MN doesn't really seem fit for purpose any more.
Of course it's not ok for your wife's friend to be massaging her shoulders in front of you, spending an increasing amount of time together, sharing information about your health. It's approaching emotional affair territory if it isn't there already. Staying at his house is off too. It's important that people in a marriage have their own friends, but there also needs to be boundaries in place too and she's straying very close to the line.
However, you should not have booked the hotel and presented it as a "fait accompli" as you say, especially after she had refused. That's controlling and will be why she reacted as she did and said she's not your property - which she isn't.
Also presenting her with fake accommodation details when making the ultimatum also wasn't honest.

Basically, there is no trust here any more and the marriage is in deep trouble. You probably aren't compatible because you have very different views on what is and isn't acceptable.
You don't trust her and she's not giving up her friend. So what are you going to do about it?

I am glad you have given her an ultimatum. She will be so much happier without you.

I can see why you are uncomfortable with the friendship and I think your wife has crossed boundaries that women on here would be very unhappy about if their husbands did the same. However, I do not think you are approaching the situation in the best way you could. Threatening never ends well. I would suggest you ask your wife to attend couples counselling so you can discuss this with them. The counsellor should help you both understand each other's point of view and hopefully you can come to a place where you are both happy.

Ultimatums are not part of a healthy marriage, none of the behaviour from either of you is really. It sounds like your marriage is over and you both need to move on. The sooner the better.

Methinks you are a tad naive.

Why would she need to invent a story?

So that when OP called the house and couldn't get hold of her, she had a cover story.

So that when the neighbours/friends who randomly called by and noticed she wasn't home, and could potentially refer to it in front of her husband, she had a cover story.

If something weird happened, and she wasn't at home (burglars generally target an empty house) she had a cover story.

Of course it's not ok for her to behave like this. If you are married, you go out if your way to avoid any ambiguous or potentially compromising situations.
I wonder what she is getting from this? Is she enjoying the attention?
She needs to stop playing games. After her comment that was culturally stereotyped, I think you might want to seriously think about splitting up. For real. Not pretending and showing fake intention to put pressureon her, but actually following through.

Those posters will find a way for the man to be at fault, whatever it takes.

This is probably the first MN thread I've seen where both parties in the marriage are behaving equally badly. You both need to stop it, or get a divorce.

she has three kids I practically co-parent, they live a mile away, I am there every three days for about an hour)

You're a funny guy.

I would get rid of her, doesn’t sound worth the effort.
you seem to be mal aligned and it feels a bit like (from what you’ve written) that she is taking the piss. It could also be making you more controlling and you’re clearly not that sort of guy, you’re better than that. Just get rid, and find yourself someone who doesn’t flirt with other people in front of you, or give out your secrets to people you don’t like or stay over at friends houses who you are insecure about. It’s 2023, the dating game is strong, I’m sure you’ll land on your feet.

You made a huge mistake posting here. A vast number of MNers are racist man haters. Unfortunately you’re both Arab and a man, so even if you caught your wife having sex with this man, they would still blame you for it.

YANBU. Your wife has shown blatant disrespect for your marriage and you reaching breaking point is not unusual. If a woman was giving her husband the same ultimatum, she would be applauded here for standing up for herself. But because you’re Arab and a man, you are controlling and evil.

Your wife needs to choose her husband or her friend. You gave her the choices, now it’s on her.

whoops I mean this one - the behaviour by OP’s wife is completely inappropriate

If you trust her then leave it alone..

She could have shagged him when she stayed over. She could leave you for him. She doesn't.

You dont have to trust him, just her.

YANBU

I wouldn't be happy with it either if my husband was doing the same.

And yeah I would separate if I had to.

With your sisters needs is there a chance you’ve neglected your wife? You said yourself she’s taken the friend to events because you can’t go because you’ve prioritised your sister and her needs.

I know alcoholism and it’s notoriously draining and many can be severely needy especially where there’s children to care for. You can’t tell kids to fuck off like you can a drunk sibling. I know how tough this is.

many would balk at the prospect of doing this but if your sisters alcoholism is so bad you have to attend school meetings and help them shower, take constant phone calls, it’s bad enough that the children can’t be cared for and you need to contact social care (if not already involved) because you cannot fix your sister as you are her crutch. You’re stopping her from hitting her rock bottom and thus wanting to seek treatment. This doesn’t mean you abandon her. Tough love is still love. Boundaries are still care. Intervention is protecting her and the kids but you need outside help here.

This does not in anyway excuse your wife’s behaviour nor lay blame on yourself but perhaps explain why she sought out a friend rather than yourself and why that friendship has blossomed and yours is stagnating.

However the friend is a bad egg and clearly pushing boundaries around you. Massages are intimate and not something done between friends in that way (unless same sex or single I suppose) This is the kind of man who doesn’t respect that a woman is married and thinks it’s ok to behave inappropriately in front of her husband is not a man I’d like to be around. . Regardless of if your wife allows it who the hell does that? Basic respect surely? However your wife is her own person too and she should’ve said no as it was inappropriate.

you are absolutely in the wrong for creating fake housing options. That’s incredibly manipulative to do that. The same as the hotel room trying to force something your way will never work.

but I agree with you the wife and her friendship has to be cooled for a while perhaps permanently though the ultimatum is just going to push the friendship into real secrecy.

I would suggest you seek some outside help for yourself. You need to set better boundaries with your sister and the rest of your family I think too; if you’re bailing them out so often. You describe yourself as a pushover and people abusing your trust I suppose? Doing this in a healthy way - not the ultimatums you’ve placed down are very strong almost immediately and extremely controlling- will make you and all round better partner and brother. It’s going to be tough though.

you and your wife really are at breaking point. You’re trying to control. She’s pulling away. Counselling might help her but you both have to be willing.

and you both need to be more present in the relationship!