Aibu to be estastic about the push back protest from parents in Ireland today about pornography on the curriculum. Link & video inside. Teaching 12 year olds about anal sex & anal fist pumping 👀

[Bláthannabuí]

https://gript.ie/keep-gender-ideology-out-of-schools-protesters-gather-in-dublin

Definitely @1week

I don’t take peoples word for anything. There is always bias and a motive.

That's very true @CherryCokeFanatic . Where it get worrying is when people in positions of power and authority start imposing their bias on everyone else.
Far Right agitators might be mad but they have nothing but a handful of shouty followers, and they'll be disciplined if they step out of line.

A board member of a semi state organisation, say, has an awful lot more power. They typically command a large budget and they get to impose their bias on all the downstream employees and the service users who rely on them. They're typically in lockstep with all the other board members of other semi states, and regularly meet with government functionaries and the media are drawn from the same ranks.

The ordinary person can avoid a gang of shouty men on the street in case they throw a punch. But you can't avoid the established organisations, because they can reach into your life, your employment, your kids education.

Street level idealogues < boardroom level ideologues, when it comes to who has power.

Street level idealogues < boardroom level ideologues, when it comes to who has power.

Excellent point

Good morning everyone! I was getting very wound up last night. I think that most of us agree on most things. But I still believe that spreading lies isn't the best way to convince anyone. It hurts more when it's your own "side" of an argument, too (like an own-goal of sorts).

Happy to leave it there, or to continue to talk about what I consider those lies to be, and why they're so damaging? I see that there's another thread about the dangers of giving a voice to some fairly nasty ideologues, but that's a slightly different issue,

One thing which needs to be challenged is that it is the far-left who are responsible for pushing this ideology and that only the far-right object!

Gender identity is inherently individualistic and porn is the ultimate exploitation of women's bodies for capitalist gain - I really wish we can change the narrative here because it is so easy to dismiss the objections of parents as being "far-right" and I fear it really reduces what could be a large support base.

@iloveruby Without wanting to go round and round in circles, the problem in this particular case is that the individuals in the video are involved with a far-right group. Some posters are trying to raise red flags that this is a way to recruit those with reasonable concerns.

@iloveruby absolutely & after this I think parents are going to be much more vigilant & suspicious about about materials their children are being recommended & given in school, what they view online & what they are picking up in the library. Also after this parents will not be afraid to question & query what their children are exposed to from outside influences.
Extra safeguarding can only be a good thing & this has woken so many thousands of parents up.

And so what! They're parents like the rest of us. They are standing up for their children & safeguarding their children. Political leaning are irrelevant when it comes to safeguarding for the good of all children.

I'm certainly not an expert in this area but I do recognise the difficulty many of these movements have had where media and other organisations on the left have simply refused to platform them or tried to silence them.

I am genuinely asking this question in good faith, and apologies if you've already answered, but what is the solution where you have to decide between reaching significantly more people by working with groups where you agree on one issue and not reaching half as many because you will only work with those you politically align with.

My understanding of popular v. united front is very rusty - as you can probably tell.

Sorry that was to @SertralineAndTherapy

@iloveruby No, it's a good question. I, personally, don't like the idea of aligning myself with organisations whose wider motives I suspect, even if I agree with them on one important issue. (If you sup with the devil, you need a long spoon, and all that.) Others might differ. I know that's the debate going on in another thread started by the OP.

My particular concern here on this thread is that the people concerned, even if you agree with them on this particular issue, are going about things by lying and exaggerating. And that spreading those cries of "wolf!" is a counterproductive thing to do.

It goes to show, doesn't it , how emotive sexual topics can be.
Sex is in its own special category, there's definitely a rather trendy pov that it's 'just' getting your rocks off and it's just old fashioned to accept the emotional and psychological dimensions. It's promotion of the more stereotypically male view as the default. (Hello good old fashioned sexism!)

It's a dangerous attitude to present to young teens, imo. By the time you're an experienced adult you might be able to separate the physical and the emotional aspects, but not for a long time abx for many they never do, or want to.

Like when you are teaching a kid to drive you go around an abandoned car park in second gear. You don't put them speeding down the motorway at 120k.

They are lying and exaggerating - so what if they're parents?

Even the editor of Gript has taken down his twitter post about the book as it's been pointed out to him that in fact it doesn't include the content that it was claimed it does.

Does @Bláthannabuí not care about the truth? As has been pointed out countless times, she has offered no evidence that this material is actually on the curriculum, the book has been proven to not contain the content she claims, and the only 'evidence' is from a right wing aggressor who has organised anti-migrant protests complete with balaclavas and iron bars but who she claims some sort of moral authority for because he has children.

What exactly can anyone say they agree with about these protests now that they've been proven to have been predicated on falsehoods?

https://gript.ie/that-book-was-gay-and-therefore-sacrosanct/

Excellent article from the Gript trying to get a handle on how & why Irish schools were actually recommending the book to children.

Small point OP - it's Gript. No 'the'.

Drives me mad each time you write it!

@EarringsandLipstick apologies.. I'll rephrase Gript has an excellent article to fathom out how the book was recommended by schools to 12-14 years old.

I am fully GC, and like many other parents, am concerned at the proposed changes to the SPHE / RSE curriculum.

So I availed of the consultation process & made this known.

Thankfully most schools take a balanced, sensible approach to these issues.

I can fully see OP's concerns but I'm really concerned about how much you are misrepresenting facts

As pointed out to you many times, Gript is not a reliable news source, it's completely biased and is only addressing issues like trans-related issues from a right-wing ideological point of view. If you're unsure about this take a look at its contributor page. There are one or two well-regarded sources but most are pushing a particular agenda.

Your assertions that this book is 'on the curriculum' are entirely incorrect.

There is an appropriate debate to be had but this hysterical unfactual positioning is aligning reasonable arguments with right-wing ideology & commentators and ensuring that the sensible comments are ignored.

And that's not what happened.

A random thought: this reminds me of the Arab Spring. Old, established, authoritarian (stable, not necessarily good) regimes getting overthrown; replaced by a free-for-all.

Ireland seems to have gone from 'sex is SIN!! - in half a generation, to 'how to do anal-fisting' for 12 year olds.

Agreed.

.....along with a silent national broadcaster. As have the BBC re Let Women Speak.

It's a bit chilling.

It's on the department of educations recommended reading list for 12-14 year olds. Recommended by schools so you would think it would be suitable & obviously you should trust your children's educators.
Shocking that the author of the book came out & said it is not for children. Why did the department over rule that?
Completely unacceptable on so many levels but mainly from a safeguarding aspect.

No. They haven't.

I have 3 DC - 2 at secondary school, 1 primary.

Their sex education has been clear, factual and age-appropriate with consultation with parents at each stage.

There is absolutely an issue regarding the proposed curriculum; there has also been all the same challenges regarding trans ideology as faced elsewhere (I work at a university & watch as the EDI madness gets more pervasive, tho not at the level of the UK - yet). There is a proper debate and pushback to be had - the Sunday Independent ( a publication I'd otherwise have issues with) is doing a great job here.

Crazy OTT ranting lacking in facts does not help.

@EarringsandLipstick what is it like in the secondary schools in your opinion as regards prounons etc? My dc are still primary...
My niece however is 16 & she says in her school & friends group prounons are going out of fashion & it's no longer cool to have them on social media.. I thought it would be the opposite?!