Was IBU? Train give up seat for a child situation

[FriendsObsessed]

So I was on the way home today. Busy train, full of commuters.
i managed to get a seat, one of those 3 that are on the side of the carriage and can be flipped up if needed.

An older couple got on with their (I assume) grandchildren.
The women next to me offered her seat to one of the kids. The grandfather came back saying at yes if they could sit together that would be lovely (keeping eye contact with the woman). She was like ‘I can only offer you my seat’. I didn’t move… he sat down with the child on his lap.

someone else got up and offered the seat to the other child. Same thing happened the grandmother sat down with the other child on her knees (kind of)

i tried to just chill (as I always do on the train) but I kept feeling very uncomfortable and sensed a bit of a death stare. The kids were pretty annoying, and weren’t told to just sit and keep kicking other people’s bags, seats and stop complaining. When I got off the train I could hear the grandfather saying, now you sit here finally.

I’m just so annoyed at folks travelling on train with kids expecting that others should move/give up seats for them. AIBU?

ps the children were approx 4 and 6 yo

It's much easier for children to behave and be quiet if they have a seat, much easier for the parents too if the children are sort of 'contained' by sitting down and wedged in.
Also, yes as someone else said a four year old might fall over if the bus grinds to a halt.

I wouldn't have really understood all that before I became a parent myself though.

It's obviously a generational thing. Looks like in the olden days a 4 or 6 year old might have been expected to give up their seat to any adult. I personally don't think it's a sensible tradition. Makes sense to me that an able adult should give up their seat to a vulnerable child!

Exactly. Why do MNers manage to centre themselves in absolute non events?

I'd give up a seat on a bus but not a train. The bus is more stop/start and can be hilly so less easy for small children to balance. Train should be fine though.

That’s not what we are talking about here. The expectation of the grandparents was that OP should get up and offer her seat to the child. Begging the question why, if the child could not share the seat with the grandparent as they were doing, the grandparent didn’t stand and let the child sit in their seat. If the children were 4 or 5, the grandparents are likely to have been well under 60 year of age so by no means elderly or infirm!

I was responding to a poster about the overall attitude of mumsnet towards this issue.

Either way it is an entire non problem for the op. What the grandparents ‘expected’ isn’t really her issue. People expect all sorts of stuff. OP wanted a seat. She had a seat. She sat in that seat until she left the train. Literally nothing happened to her.

Right? Let me tell you how I was so badly treated when people were looking at me and I imagined all the mean things that they were thinking and how unreasonable those mean things that I think they were thinking were, don't you all agree?

Same here.
I remember taking my kids to London at about 4 and 7, and they found it quite difficult getting hurled around and squashed on a busy tube. I thought it was poor form than none of the many young adults on the train offered their seats.

Also agree ….

traveling in London can be difficult with my 5yr old DS. He gets really tired walking up and down the stairs!

fully grown men sat in the priority areas….all the f’in time.
they don’t move for anyone! Babies, elderly no one
honestly makes my blood boil!

Yes I think a 4 year old won't be stable and they can get thrown about but it was OK they could sit on GPs laps so no issue. If it had been one adult with them and the 4 year old was standing I'd have given them a seat.

Yep! Happens all the time, it’s absolutely disgusting IMO

Where has common decency gone?

I am a bit confused here. I was on a bus recently that was chock full of adults standing and at least 5 seats were full of small children that could have sat on their adults laps.

I think it is wrong to make adults stand when small children ( 4-5 yes old) could easily and happily sit on someone’s lap. I have an injured leg and it is not obvious. From standing on that bus for an hour as it was delayed in traffic ( train strike day) my leg went into spasm and I have been laid up for a week on strong pain killers. There will be a lot of older but not elderly people with similar problems and on a busy bus it is courtesy to help others with seats if possible.

I think the problem comes when people think why should my child not have their own seat rather than who is in the greatest need and what can I do?

I don't know why you'd assume the grandparents would be likely to be well under 60. I'm 70 and when the GC that is due this summer reaches 5 I will be 75 so definitely not well under 60. Women are having children later, nothing unusual about having a baby at 40. Most GPs I know were over 60 when GC arrived.

Years ago they used have signs on buses saying that children must not occopy seats when an adult is standing.
The kid can sit on the parent's knee if required

I think the grandfather should’ve offered the seat to his wife, who could have the 4-year-old on her lap, and he should’ve stood with the 6-year-old. I literally cannot imagine my dad taking a seat and letting my mum stand. So I reckon he’s a rude bugger all round.

That said, I do give up my seat to children because as a parent I know how awful that end of day under-7s public transport situation is.

A wonderful young mother with a baby in a sling offered to give up the Disabled bus seat for me ( I need a stick now as knees are very bad with inherited arthritis)
I thanked her, but said she needed the seat as she had a baby in a sling .
Absolutely older children should sit on laps .
Don’t move for them.

YANBU. Well for one, they probably haven't paid for a seat as children travel free under 5. So the hell am I giving up my seat that I paid £60 for the pleasure of, and two they were on their grandparents laps. Yeah that isn't too comfortable but unless the grandparents were in their 80s that is just life. It baffles me that people expect me to give up my seat for their kids. I have 3 kids and they would always sit on my lap or stand if there were no seats!

Don't even get me started on people who let their bloody dogs sit on the seats while people are standing!!!

He was being passive aggressive and you ignored him. That’s all you can do with pass-agh people. He disapproved of your choice and didn’t like you. So what? If you’re assertive in life sometimes it goes that way.

I agree @Notwavingbutsignalling. I’ve brought up 3 children in London and they have all sat on my laps in crowded tubes as babies and toddlers and stood when there were no seats available at all. It did them no harm whatsoever. Expecting them and you to have your own separate seats at all times is so entitled and unnecessary. Fine if you want to give your own seat to your child and stand yourself but not to expect a stranger to do so whilst you stay seated

@Justalittlebitduckling or he was uncomfortable having a child on his knee after a day out walking and trying to find a comfortable position to sit in?

I would only ever give up a seat for a child if they were on crutches or otherwise disabled.

Are you really, in 2023, still making your judgments solely based on someone's physical appearance?

@Kanaloa I am an able bodied adult and I would expect a child to give up their seat for me, just as I would make my children stand for an adult. It’s the way I was brought up. A child sitting when an adult is standing is the height of bad manners.
But so many people today have different ideas so I am not surprised at the mumsnet response. So you just let the children learn to disrespect adults and become selfish. Karma will out in the end.

Children aren’t disrespecting you by not giving you a seat they are sitting in. Personally I don’t think it’s the height of bad manners at all - I’m no more entitled to a seat than anybody, so if they’re all full when I get on a train or bus I wouldn’t expect anyone of any age to spring up and give me their seat.

Of course you’re entitled to expect whatever you want, but you’re not likely to always get it.

I would offer my own seat up but I wouldn't offer my child's up. Their safety is my priority.