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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was IBU? Train give up seat for a child situation

369 replies

FriendsObsessed · 05/04/2023 19:09

So I was on the way home today. Busy train, full of commuters.
i managed to get a seat, one of those 3 that are on the side of the carriage and can be flipped up if needed.

An older couple got on with their (I assume) grandchildren.
The women next to me offered her seat to one of the kids. The grandfather came back saying at yes if they could sit together that would be lovely (keeping eye contact with the woman). She was like ‘I can only offer you my seat’. I didn’t move… he sat down with the child on his lap.

someone else got up and offered the seat to the other child. Same thing happened the grandmother sat down with the other child on her knees (kind of)

i tried to just chill (as I always do on the train) but I kept feeling very uncomfortable and sensed a bit of a death stare. The kids were pretty annoying, and weren’t told to just sit and keep kicking other people’s bags, seats and stop complaining. When I got off the train I could hear the grandfather saying, now you sit here finally.

I’m just so annoyed at folks travelling on train with kids expecting that others should move/give up seats for them. AIBU?

ps the children were approx 4 and 6 yo

OP posts:
labamba007 · 08/04/2023 20:06

Grandparents with two young children? Yes I'd have given up my seat. I would say that was the kind thing to do.

Tribblesarelovely · 08/04/2023 20:08

Giving up your seat for a child is ridiculous, if they’re so small that they’re in danger of being hurt, they can sit on the adults lap. No wonder so many young people have such an entitled attitude.

Okunevo · 08/04/2023 20:08

It would be nasty and very poor behaviour for a parent to allow their small child to occupy a seat when others are standing
This bit I completely disagree with if the parent's lap is already occupied by another child. I would expect an adult or older child to allow a small child to sit regardless of the 'rules' and would vaxate my seat, or direct my teenager to do the same, for a small child or anyone else less able to stand.

JustAnotherManicNameChange · 08/04/2023 20:08

@Okunevo let's face it , in real life most people wouldn't even think to expect or ask such a thing. It's only on MN that people (anonymously and sanctimoniously and pedantically ) say that.

hourbyhour101 · 08/04/2023 20:11

I gave up my seat to a toddler heavily pregnant (8months) because she was with her grandfather and he's knees were shaking from the weight. She was clearly very tired and fell asleep fairly quickly.

Not one fucker has offered me their seat during my entire pregnancy I o lay traveled central London from 6months+ pregnant (bar one very old lady - and I declined) and then they had to deal with a very pregnant women losing her balance several times and crashing into things - I image toddlers have a similar sense of gravity 🤷🏼‍♀️ cause and effect.

Op you didn't need to labour on about how naughty the kids where for you to justify ignoring this. You made the choice you made and the effect is random person thought you were a arse and now your having feelings about it.

Oh well it's not a big thing. Like it wasn't a big thing you not giving up your seat. Others may have done a different thing but if the worst that happened to you was you felt guilty ... well 🤷🏼‍♀️

I will say this though you may find somewhere in your future you rely on someone's kindness and for them to go out of their way to help. And it wont appear and you will think they are a arse.

Kindness generates kindness, unkindness creates more unkindness - and I know what I would like to see more of in this world. But everyone's different- I suspect the grandparents came from a generation of we all pull together thing which sadly, as the food hoarding/ toilet paper/covid rush shows doesn't really exist anymore. It's certainly like this thread, why should you move, you got the first seat/toilet roll/food first. Your entitled to it, but could you have done something different, sure. But you didn't so know everyone has to live with it.

Including you (and at least you had a choice)

JustAnotherManicNameChange · 08/04/2023 20:12

Tribblesarelovely · 08/04/2023 20:08

Giving up your seat for a child is ridiculous, if they’re so small that they’re in danger of being hurt, they can sit on the adults lap. No wonder so many young people have such an entitled attitude.

Why does a child have an entitled attitude for wanting a seat but an adult isn't?

Okunevo · 08/04/2023 20:14

@hourbyhour101
It seems to be those who have known what it's like to need a seat themselves who actually see others in need. So many people just look away 😔.

hourbyhour101 · 08/04/2023 20:21

@Okunevo I genuinely think that unless you have been in one of those "situations" on the receiving end of people who are bodily able to get on the train quickly and get a seat that people have to turn blind otherwise they might have to acknowledge their advantage of having a healthy body (which one day may not be so healthy) has taken a seat from someone's whos body is less healthy and would benefit from it more.

And that makes for uncomfortable thought to acknowledge that. Because every single human being will be at some point at the mercy of someone's kindness in the end.

Do they justify it.

hourbyhour101 · 08/04/2023 20:22

So** ffs bloody phone

Snugglemonkey · 08/04/2023 21:12

VariationsonaTheme · 05/04/2023 19:19

I give up my seat for small children. They usually don’t have the best balance and end up knocking into other people and causing accidents.

Me too. I think standing is very unsafe for small children.

Snugglemonkey · 08/04/2023 21:15

ancientgran · 05/04/2023 19:46

I don't know why you'd assume the grandparents would be likely to be well under 60. I'm 70 and when the GC that is due this summer reaches 5 I will be 75 so definitely not well under 60. Women are having children later, nothing unusual about having a baby at 40. Most GPs I know were over 60 when GC arrived.

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My DC has a granny turning 90. I thought this was a weird assumption too.

ThinWomansBrain · 08/04/2023 21:25

Not to mention the CFs with juggernaut buggies that fill the tube carriage that they take child out of, block seats or doorway with buggy, and expect others to stand up for them to have a seat each.
One did this the other day, child of around 5-6, easily able to stand, looked at me and said 'that's a priority seat'
Me - "yes, that's why I'm sitting in it."

Fully prepared to give up my seat to someone who needed it more - but if the child needed to sit down, it could have used one of the seats blocked by the buggy.
Or stayed sat in the sodding juggernaut buggy🙄

DonnaRix · 08/04/2023 21:34

We recently travelled from Scotland to England. 7 hour train journey with two kids (9 and 6). We booked a table for the four of us and they had all their colouring, sticker books, food etc and they were great! There were quite a few families at tables around us.

As we approached London the train got very busy and people were standing (only for maybe the last hour or so - before then, it had been fairly quiet). One woman was quite vocally moaning about “one of these kids should be giving up their seat”. It was uncomfortable, but I ignored her to be honest. We’d been there for hours. Their stuff was all spread out, and they were settled. I wasn’t going to make them stand for the last hour after they’d been so good (and they’d have been pushed and jostled about anyway). To be honest it didn’t really occur to me to do so…

Tandora · 08/04/2023 21:39

Stepuptowardsinfinity · 05/04/2023 19:11

Adults should never give up their seat for a child, unless it is a parent carrying a baby or toddler. It sends the wrong message to kids and they are perfectly capable of standing, much more than many adults who have had a long hard day at work.

A four year old is not more capable of standing for long periods on a train than an adult. This attitude makes me furious. 😡

JustAnotherManicNameChange · 08/04/2023 21:41

ThinWomansBrain · 08/04/2023 21:25

Not to mention the CFs with juggernaut buggies that fill the tube carriage that they take child out of, block seats or doorway with buggy, and expect others to stand up for them to have a seat each.
One did this the other day, child of around 5-6, easily able to stand, looked at me and said 'that's a priority seat'
Me - "yes, that's why I'm sitting in it."

Fully prepared to give up my seat to someone who needed it more - but if the child needed to sit down, it could have used one of the seats blocked by the buggy.
Or stayed sat in the sodding juggernaut buggy🙄

Have you considered that since the kid was 5/6 the massive buggy was a disability one?

Kanaloa · 08/04/2023 21:43

Tellmethespoiler · 08/04/2023 18:58

No, the conductor would say the child has to sit on parent’s knee. The conductor will know the conditions of carriage better than anyone, and that means that a (non-fare-paying) child can’t occupy a seat if an adult is standing.

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Well as I said, give it a go and let me know what the conductor says. You’ll forgive me if I don’t take your word for what an unknown conductor will/might do.

Tandora · 08/04/2023 21:44

whatyoulookingfor · 05/04/2023 19:48

YANBU. Well for one, they probably haven't paid for a seat as children travel free under 5. So the hell am I giving up my seat that I paid £60 for the pleasure of, and two they were on their grandparents laps. Yeah that isn't too comfortable but unless the grandparents were in their 80s that is just life. It baffles me that people expect me to give up my seat for their kids. I have 3 kids and they would always sit on my lap or stand if there were no seats!

Don't even get me started on people who let their bloody dogs sit on the seats while people are standing!!!

Seniors also go free on buses and discounted on trains. Do you refuse to give up your seat to the elderly as well because they haven’t paid for it? Disgusting attitude. It would never occur to me in a million years to think this way. You offer seats on public transport in priority of need.

Kanaloa · 08/04/2023 21:46

Tellmethespoiler · 08/04/2023 20:04

They’re different scenarios. The parent carrying a child gets a seat. Obviously. The small child itself does not get a seat. Obviously. It would be nasty and very poor behaviour for a parent to allow their small child to occupy a seat when others are standing - and for the millionth time, they aren’t actually allowed a seat on National Rail. If you buy a ticket for the child, or if you aren’t travelling by train, different rules apply.

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How would that be ‘nasty?’ What is ‘nasty’ about not forcing your preschooler to give up a seat they are in for an able bodied adult to sit in it?

hourbyhour101 · 08/04/2023 21:52

DonnaRix · 08/04/2023 21:34

We recently travelled from Scotland to England. 7 hour train journey with two kids (9 and 6). We booked a table for the four of us and they had all their colouring, sticker books, food etc and they were great! There were quite a few families at tables around us.

As we approached London the train got very busy and people were standing (only for maybe the last hour or so - before then, it had been fairly quiet). One woman was quite vocally moaning about “one of these kids should be giving up their seat”. It was uncomfortable, but I ignored her to be honest. We’d been there for hours. Their stuff was all spread out, and they were settled. I wasn’t going to make them stand for the last hour after they’d been so good (and they’d have been pushed and jostled about anyway). To be honest it didn’t really occur to me to do so…

You booked a seat for the kids to sit in it and had a right to use it. If a able bodied adult, can see that a child requires a seat more then they are nuts 🤷🏼‍♀️ (different if old and frail ect)

I hope that person was also complaining about the men on the carriage of a young age also not giving up their seat.

People are nasty and seem to think because they were treated pond scum when they were a kid, entitles them to pass this notion on. Luckily we have moved on with that crap tbh

DonnaRix · 08/04/2023 21:56

hourbyhour101 · 08/04/2023 21:52

You booked a seat for the kids to sit in it and had a right to use it. If a able bodied adult, can see that a child requires a seat more then they are nuts 🤷🏼‍♀️ (different if old and frail ect)

I hope that person was also complaining about the men on the carriage of a young age also not giving up their seat.

People are nasty and seem to think because they were treated pond scum when they were a kid, entitles them to pass this notion on. Luckily we have moved on with that crap tbh

Show quote history

Yes, this is how I feel.

i wouldn’t expect my child to stand for an able-bodied adult. At the same time, no way would I expect a child to stand for me any more than I’d expect an adult to stand for me 🤷🏻‍♀️

JustAnotherManicNameChange · 08/04/2023 21:59

@DonnaRix i bet that lack of expectations make your journey a lot nicer. Rather than focusing on how old a kid might actually be have they paid or not, is anyone giving you the evil eye, fecking men in suits ignoring you and stickers,pen lids and kids flying everywhere.Grin

DonnaRix · 08/04/2023 22:00

Yup. Life is too short.

Harry12345 · 08/04/2023 22:24

i Would give up my dear for older people with young children unless I had mobility issues

Betaalpha · 09/04/2023 17:09

But small children get crushed in between adults in a packed train. It's not as safe for them. Between an able bodied adult and a 4 year old, it is obvious to me a child should get a seat. Ideally on a lap, but with a grandparent that's not easy either. So they both should get a seat.

Mumma212 · 10/04/2023 08:35

Riv · 05/04/2023 20:02

@Kanaloa I am an able bodied adult and I would expect a child to give up their seat for me, just as I would make my children stand for an adult. It’s the way I was brought up. A child sitting when an adult is standing is the height of bad manners.
But so many people today have different ideas so I am not surprised at the mumsnet response. So you just let the children learn to disrespect adults and become selfish. Karma will out in the end.

So children should be taught that they aren’t important enough to deserve a seat?
Why would we want to teach children that they’re less worthy than an adult stranger??
Really old fashioned view.